Newbie looking for a hunting rifle

[sdavis5684]

Hi Everyone,

So I am new to the world of gun ownership, and honesty dont know much of anything at all. I'm looking for a hunting rifle that will be good for deer and elk, but not so big that the recoil will knock me on my butt. I've been told that either a .270 or a 30-06 are going to be my best bet. Any brand preference? I would like to spend no more than $350.00 on the gun. Any knowledge you would like to pass along is greatly appreciated

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[badclam]

Hi Everyone,

So I am new to the world of gun ownership, and honesty dont know much of anything at all. I'm looking for a hunting rifle that will be good for deer and elk, but not so big that the recoil will knock me on my butt. I've been told that either a .270 or a 30-06 are going to be my best bet. Any brand preference? I would like to spend no more than $350.00 on the gun. Any knowledge you would like to pass along is greatly appreciated

'

I would just buy an inexpensive 30-06 and scope,(the scope should cost as much as the rifle as a good rule of thumb).

BUT OTHERS HERE WILL TRY TO LEAD YOU ASTRAY!!!! they will tell you things like a 270 is a good choice with proper shot placement...DON"T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!
They are part of the secret 270 brotherhood. They are trying to convert all of us to bring down the price of 270 ammo. I heard they are even trying to get the military to use 270's.

But since you said,
"Any knowledge you would like to pass along is greatly appreciated"

Okay, here's some knowledge....

Bullet velocity and mass will affect the nature of wounding. Velocity is classified as low (<1000 fps), medium (1000 to 2000 fps), and high (>2000 fps). (Wilson, 1977) An M-16 rifle (.223 cal) is designed to produce larger wounds with high velocity, lower mass bullets that tumble, cavitate, and release energy quickly upon striking the target. A hunting rifle (.308 cal or greater) would have a larger mass bullet to penetrate a greater depth to kill a large game animal at a longer distance.

Bullet design is important in wounding potential. The Hague Convention of 1899 (and subsequently the Geneva Convention) forbade the use of expanding, deformable bullets in wartime. Therefore, military bullets have full metal jackets around the lead core. Of course, the treaty had less to do with compliance than the fact that modern military assault rifles fire projectiles at high velocity (>2000 fps) and the bullets need to be jacketed with copper, because the lead begins to melt from heat generated at speeds >2000 fps.

The distance of the target from the muzzle plays a large role in wounding capacity, for most bullets fired from handguns have lost significant kinetic energy (KE) at 100 yards, while high-velocity military .308 rounds still have considerable KE even at 500 yards. Military and hunting rifles are designed to deliver bullets with more KE at a greater distance than are handguns and shotguns.

The type of tissue affects wounding potential, as well as the depth of penetration. (Bartlett, 2003) Specific gravity (density) and elasticity are the major tissue factors. The higher the specific gravity, the greater the damage. The greater the elasticity, the less the damage. Thus, lung tissue of low density and high elasticity is damaged less than muscle with higher density but some elasticity. Liver, spleen, and brain have no elasticity and are easily injured, as is adipose tissue. Fluid-filled organs (bladder, heart, great vessels, bowel) can burst because of pressure waves generated. A bullet striking bone may cause fragmentation of bone and/or bullet, with numerous secondary missiles formed, each producing additional wounding.

The speed at which a projectile must travel to penetrate skin is 163 fps and to break bone is 213 fps, both of which are quite low, so other factors are more important in producing damage. (Belkin, 1978)

Designing a bullet for efficient transfer of energy to a particular target is not straightforward, for targets differ. To penetrate the thick hide and tough bone of an elephant, the bullet must be pointed, of small diameter, and durable enough to resist disintegration. However, such a bullet would penetrate most human tissues like a spear, doing little more damage than a knife wound. A bullet designed to damage human tissues would need some sort of "brakes" so that all the KE was transmitted to the target.

It is easier to design features that aid deceleration of a larger, slower moving bullet in tissues than a small, high velocity bullet. Such measures include shape modifications like round (round nose), flattened (wadcutter), or cupped (hollowpoint) bullet nose. Round nose bullets provide the least braking, are usually jacketed, and are useful mostly in low velocity handguns. The wadcutter design provides the most braking from shape alone, is not jacketed, and is used in low velocity handguns (often for target practice). A semi-wadcutter design is intermediate between the round nose and wadcutter and is useful at medium velocity. Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.

Wounding is an extremely complex situation with variables of bullet size, velocity, shape, spin, distance from muzzle to target, and nature of tissue. These factors are interrelated, and the wounding potential may be difficult to predict even under controlled test conditions. In an actual forensic case, few of the variables may be known, and it is up to the medical examiner to determine what can be known from examination of the evidence.

Blood loss depends upon the size of the wound, the number and size of blood vessels damaged, and total body blood volume. A healthy 80 kg man has a blood volume of 4800 mL, and loss of 25% of this volume leads to incapacitation through diminished cardiac output and oxygenation (Maiden, 2009).


I would just buy an inexpensive 30-06 and scope,(the scope should cost as much as the rifle as a good rule of thumb).!!

 

[Ding]

270,308,06',7mag,300mag,any of those will be just fine.You can find just about any load for the 06' anywhere.The 06' will do anything you want it to do on any game .I use a 7 rem mag myself but I reload for it.You can help reduce recoil with any rifle by putting a slotted recoil pad on the butt stock if that is any problem for you.

 

[Lindy]

You may want to consider getting Yourself a .260 Remington, Large enough to take down Deer and Elk but without the hard recoil of the 30-06 and and large Magnums.
Ruger makes a Model M77-Mark 2 in stainless thats a good carry rifle, has an unloading gate that dumps the shells out the bottom of the rifle, has weaver style scope mounts
machined into the receiver, requires no tools to field strip for cleaning, and is just an all around good rifle.
Good luck on your quest.

Good Shooting

Lindy

 

[branson4020]

30-06 rifles are the most common thing out there. 30-06 is the caliber that has the widest range of loads available. Don't over think this. Just buy one. For $350 you can always sell it and buy something else later.

 

[SAR1846]

Hi Everyone,

So I am new to the world of gun ownership, and honesty dont know much of anything at all. I'm looking for a hunting rifle that will be good for deer and elk, but not so big that the recoil will knock me on my butt. I've been told that either a .270 or a 30-06 are going to be my best bet. Any brand preference? I would like to spend no more than $350.00 on the gun. Any knowledge you would like to pass along is greatly appreciated

Stick with the name brands and you'll be alright. Remington, Winchester, Marlin, Savage, etc... Shop for something used to get at that price point.

Caliber... since you are "new to the world..." I'd get a caliber which is least inexpensive for factory ammo, yet strong enough for elk... -- I am assuming you do not reload?
.30-06 & 270 are good...
Don't overlook .308...

Try your friends deer/elk rifles, and see what you like...

 

[norseman]

I'm no expert, but like everyone else I have my own "opinions". My first rifle, besides a 22lr, was a 30-06. It's good for a lot of different size game, very easy to get ammo and reloading supplies. The ammo can run the gambit on price and bullet weight for whatever your needs are. I bought some 180 grain decent hunting rounds for under a buck at walmart last week. I bought a mossberg 30-06 with a synthetic stock and bued barrel a few years ago for about $250, and added a 50 tasco scope, and 20 scope rings, and a $20 sling, and I was ready to go. I have never had an issue with this gun. I don't know much about remingtong 770, but they're not too expensive, and are in your price range and can come as a rifle scope package. The scopes aren't top of the line, but you'll get good use out of them until you can afford another if you choose. I would choose th 30-06

 

[sheepdip]

look at the package guns at bi-mart, great price and you get a brand spankin new gun. .270, .308, 30-06, cant go wrong with any of those calibers.

 

[nwwoodsman]

If you buy a rifle/scope combo, make sure it's a good scope. The generic scopes that come with the new remingtons are absolute garbage. You can also just go with open sights if you find a 30-06 that has them

 

[soberups]

Whatever you do, dont go cheap on the scope.

No matter how good the rifle might be, it wont be worth a darn if you put a cheap scope on it. You can pick up a basic Leupold 3x9 at Bi-mart for right around $200, and it will last you a lifetime.

As far as caliber goes, you really cant go wrong with a 30.06.

 

[badclam]

Whatever you do, dont go cheap on the scope.

No matter how good the rifle might be, it wont be worth a darn if you put a cheap scope on it. You can pick up a basic Leupold 3x9 at Bi-mart for right around $200, and it will last you a lifetime.

As far as caliber goes, you really cant go wrong with a 30.06.

Like I said,
I would just buy an inexpensive 30-06 and scope,(the scope should cost as much as the rifle as a good rule of thumb).!!

 

[sdavis5684]

Thanks for all the input guys. That's all good info, no I don't reload, maybe later down the road. Good thing you brought up the scopes too, I didn't even think about that. I figured I would be good with the gun/scope combo that I aready found, but sounds like it is a cheap scope. Looks like I've got some shopping to do

 

[Ironbar]

For the price range you're looking at (that is if you're going the new rifle route) I think you're probably looking at something like a Savage 30-06. Bi-Mart sells them for $267.87: <broken link removed>

What folks have said about the scope is absolutely true though. That's why I like Leupold scopes so much. Lifetime warranty. They're more expensive, and they're worth it.

 

[Gunner3456]

Well, you know what they say about opinions.

I've been hunting all over Oregon, Montana and Wyoming for 40 years with a .270. I'm going to recommend it because it has a light kick and you won't be likely to flinch as you might with a heavier bullet. I use only 130 gr bullets due to speed and trajectory. Don't let anyone tell you it won't take down a black bear or elk because my whole hunting party used .270 and we got all of them just fine. One member of our party had a 300 Win. magnum and he was the worst shot of the bunch. I had to finish off more than one animal he wounded, one with a meat-ruining shot through the hind quarters. I still believe he had a flinch problem.

 

[Bob D]

For a beginning hunter, the Remington 770 is a great choice. 300 bucks, comes with a crappy 3-9X40 scope. It needs a little TLC out of the box, (Clean the heck outta the bolt and chamber, then oil them up good,) but it's a completely serviceable rifle in .270, .30-06, 7mm, .300mag, or (my recommendation) .308.

No point spending more money than you have to for a hobby you don't know if you enjoy yet.

 

[Gunner3456]

'

I would just buy an inexpensive 30-06 and scope,(the scope should cost as much as the rifle as a good rule of thumb).

BUT OTHERS HERE WILL TRY TO LEAD YOU ASTRAY!!!! they will tell you things like a 270 is a good choice with proper shot placement...DON"T BELIEVE THEM!!!!!
They are part of the secret 270 brotherhood. They are trying to convert all of us to bring down the price of 270 ammo. I heard they are even trying to get the military to use 270's.

But since you said,
"Any knowledge you would like to pass along is greatly appreciated"

Okay, here's some knowledge....

Bullet velocity and mass will affect the nature of wounding. Velocity is classified as low (<1000 fps), medium (1000 to 2000 fps), and high (>2000 fps). (Wilson, 1977) An M-16 rifle (.223 cal) is designed to produce larger wounds with high velocity, lower mass bullets that tumble, cavitate, and release energy quickly upon striking the target. A hunting rifle (.308 cal or greater) would have a larger mass bullet to penetrate a greater depth to kill a large game animal at a longer distance.

Bullet design is important in wounding potential. The Hague Convention of 1899 (and subsequently the Geneva Convention) forbade the use of expanding, deformable bullets in wartime. Therefore, military bullets have full metal jackets around the lead core. Of course, the treaty had less to do with compliance than the fact that modern military assault rifles fire projectiles at high velocity (>2000 fps) and the bullets need to be jacketed with copper, because the lead begins to melt from heat generated at speeds >2000 fps.

The distance of the target from the muzzle plays a large role in wounding capacity, for most bullets fired from handguns have lost significant kinetic energy (KE) at 100 yards, while high-velocity military .308 rounds still have considerable KE even at 500 yards. Military and hunting rifles are designed to deliver bullets with more KE at a greater distance than are handguns and shotguns.

The type of tissue affects wounding potential, as well as the depth of penetration. (Bartlett, 2003) Specific gravity (density) and elasticity are the major tissue factors. The higher the specific gravity, the greater the damage. The greater the elasticity, the less the damage. Thus, lung tissue of low density and high elasticity is damaged less than muscle with higher density but some elasticity. Liver, spleen, and brain have no elasticity and are easily injured, as is adipose tissue. Fluid-filled organs (bladder, heart, great vessels, bowel) can burst because of pressure waves generated. A bullet striking bone may cause fragmentation of bone and/or bullet, with numerous secondary missiles formed, each producing additional wounding.

The speed at which a projectile must travel to penetrate skin is 163 fps and to break bone is 213 fps, both of which are quite low, so other factors are more important in producing damage. (Belkin, 1978)

Designing a bullet for efficient transfer of energy to a particular target is not straightforward, for targets differ. To penetrate the thick hide and tough bone of an elephant, the bullet must be pointed, of small diameter, and durable enough to resist disintegration. However, such a bullet would penetrate most human tissues like a spear, doing little more damage than a knife wound. A bullet designed to damage human tissues would need some sort of "brakes" so that all the KE was transmitted to the target.

It is easier to design features that aid deceleration of a larger, slower moving bullet in tissues than a small, high velocity bullet. Such measures include shape modifications like round (round nose), flattened (wadcutter), or cupped (hollowpoint) bullet nose. Round nose bullets provide the least braking, are usually jacketed, and are useful mostly in low velocity handguns. The wadcutter design provides the most braking from shape alone, is not jacketed, and is used in low velocity handguns (often for target practice). A semi-wadcutter design is intermediate between the round nose and wadcutter and is useful at medium velocity. Hollowpoint bullet design facilitates turning the bullet "inside out" and flattening the front, referred to as "expansion." Expansion reliably occurs only at velocities exceeding 1200 fps, so is suited only to the highest velocity handguns.

Wounding is an extremely complex situation with variables of bullet size, velocity, shape, spin, distance from muzzle to target, and nature of tissue. These factors are interrelated, and the wounding potential may be difficult to predict even under controlled test conditions. In an actual forensic case, few of the variables may be known, and it is up to the medical examiner to determine what can be known from examination of the evidence.

Blood loss depends upon the size of the wound, the number and size of blood vessels damaged, and total body blood volume. A healthy 80 kg man has a blood volume of 4800 mL, and loss of 25% of this volume leads to incapacitation through diminished cardiac output and oxygenation (Maiden, 2009).


I would just buy an inexpensive 30-06 and scope,(the scope should cost as much as the rifle as a good rule of thumb).!!

OCD meds not working today?

 

[badclam]

OCD meds not working today?

Now Gunner, just because you shoot a caliber designed for women and children,doesn't mean you should insult me. I would say your the one with the obsessive-compulsive disorder. I was right about your secret 270 brotherhood,(or party as you call yourselves), trying to lure another member in. Couldn't help yourself could you? Took you a little longer than usual, but you came just as I predicted in the second post of this thread.....Don't get me wrong,the 270 is a good caliber. After all it is a 30-06 brass necked down to take a smaller,lighter bullet,and there's not near the problem of trying to decide what bullet to use.

I'M KIDDING EVERY ONE!!!! THIS BATTLE BETWEEN THE 270 CROWD AND THE 30-06 CROWD HAPPENS EVERY WEEK. THE 270 IS A FINE CALIBER!!!! I just personally think the 30-06 is a little better choice for reasons listed all through this thread.

No, my attempt at putting a new spin on the weekly, infinite, argument of what is the best rifle for a beginner,with some real indisputable science on ballistics, bullet wounds and kinetic energy, didn't work. I thought maybe it would take this often repeated thread into a new direction, but..... This isn't about science or ballistics or wound channels it's about personal opinions. So nobody is right or wrong. You would be well served by either cartridge if you have a decent scope and practice with your rifle.