New York shooting

[biggie24420]

For anyone who thinks that the strict gun laws didn't work.... you are wrongitty wrong! it too did work because it kept the law abiding citizen(s) disarmed. Anyone with half a brain knows that gun laws are not for criminals, they are for the law abiding citizen who wants to fallow the law(s).

Bloomberg can come to my house and clean my toilet as far as I am concerned!

 

[SG85]

The average city only requires the officers to qualify once a year. And very few have active shooter training under stress like the military. It seems that a lack of stress training or shooting in pressure training was evident. I'm sure there are many officers that are enthusiasts and do train on their own time but not these guys. Maybe NYC could invest in training rather than lobbying to get gun laws passed.

 

[Misterbill]

Maybe NYC could invest in training rather than lobbying to get gun laws passed.

Nailed it.

The training available to YSO and YPD officers is outstanding. And from recent experience, those officers have performed superbly in officer-involved shoots. Contrast that with the NYPD who have FOR DECADES routinely missed 80%+ of all shots fired. But they have the money to send their dipstick Mayor all over Hell and gone having a tizzy over someone buying a single-barreled break-action shotgun at a gun show.

 

[4Freedom]

IMO, these officers should be tried for attempted manslaughter or some type of reckless endangerment. If a law-abiding gun owner shot up all these nine people, you can only bet he would be spending many, many years and a good chunk of his income in court, if not serving some time. Somebody's child could have been killed by the callous and foolish disregard for human life that these officers displayed. All I know is, somebody needs to pay for it!! New Yorkers are already punished for being New Yorkers, by not being allowed to own firearms to not only protect themselves from ruthless criminals, but also to protect themselves from an under-trained and careless NYPD. I hope people realize that if somebody's child would have been shot in the head by these officers, all h*ll would break loose! Probably, these officers would not have even cared if they shot somebody's child, as long as their own backsides weren't scratched.

Who is going to pay for the rehab and medical bills of those who were shot? Bullet wounds are long lasting and these people could have long term nerve and tissue damage and need future surgeries, etc?

Many will just say this is a simple mistake and the fault of the murderer. I say this is gross negligence on the part of New York's corrupt and draconian government/law enforcement, which cares not about its citizens, but only itself. If proper protocol would have been followed, this would have just been another simple homicide and the murderer could have been apprehended in a more intelligent manner with less potential carnage then what happened in this encounter. Nothing could have been handled worse than what happened.

 

[Hook686]

At 8 feet only 7 hits out of 16. The cops need to go back to revolvers. 16 shots and the other guy fires none, yet only 7 hits at 8 feet. Strikes me as spray and pray in lieu of aimed fire. Maybe with fewer rounds available the NYPD will take more deliberate care.

 

[GlockShooter]

One of the officers in the video of the shooting was shooting his Service pistol with one hand....wheres all that training? makes sense that 9 people were wounded, hopefully everyone that was wounded will get back to the way their lives were before the shooting

 

[Misterbill]

IMO, these officers should be tried for attempted manslaughter or some type of reckless endangerment. If a law-abiding gun owner shot up all these nine people, you can only bet he would be spending many, many years and a good chunk of his income in court, if not serving some time. Somebody's child could have been killed by the callous and foolish disregard for human life that these officers displayed. All I know is, somebody needs to pay for it!! New Yorkers are already punished for being New Yorkers, by not being allowed to own firearms to not only protect themselves from ruthless criminals, but also to protect themselves from an under-trained and careless NYPD. I hope people realize that if somebody's child would have been shot in the head by these officers, all h*ll would break loose! Probably, these officers would not have even cared if they shot somebody's child, as long as their own backsides weren't scratched.

Who is going to pay for the rehab and medical bills of those who were shot? Bullet wounds are long lasting and these people could have long term nerve and tissue damage and need future surgeries, etc?

Many will just say this is a simple mistake and the fault of the murderer. I say this is gross negligence on the part of New York's corrupt and draconian government/law enforcement, which cares not about its citizens, but only itself. If proper protocol would have been followed, this would have just been another simple homicide and the murderer could have been apprehended in a more intelligent manner with less potential carnage then what happened in this encounter. Nothing could have been handled worse than what happened.

You're dead wrong.

These two cops shot EXACTLY as they were trained. I'd bet money on it.

The real culprits in this case are the asshats on the NYPD training echelon that teach these nonsensical techniques (shoot them till they drop) with ZERO followup other than an annual requal that any half-assed shooter in the civilian community could pass with their eyes shut.

NYPD is NOTORIOUS for their civilian accidental shootings and for their miss rate. This isn't new information either, it's been documented thoroughly for three decades.

I don't want the officers to fry, I want everyone who had any authoritative decision making power WRT their training to fry.

These guys, I guarantee it, shot EXACTLY how they were trained. It's not them, it's the system which trained them that is at fault.

 

[mrblond]

I wonder how many were through and through, specially if the cops were using 9mm.

 

[revjen45]

One factor I have not seen mentioned here is the required 12# trigger on NYPD's Glocks. Anyone who has shot a sidearm knows that trigger control is absolutely necessary for accuracy, and trying to hit something with a trigger like a Nagant M1895 is a losing proposition. Of course, the Bozoids who make policy for NYPD's weapons standards probably know less about guns than Ralph Fascitelli (WA Ceasefire's Grand Poobah). The average armed citizen doesh't carry a pistol with a trigger that requires both hands to pull, and not having carte blanche to fire indiscriminately at all and sundry probably exercises more care when it's time to shoot. When the cops screw up it is investigated by their homies, and the only thing to be decided is whether to release Version A, B, or C. This is like having a shooting by a motorcycle gang investigated by the other patch holders. Of course, it doesn't really matter whether the Peons believe it or not - what are they going to do about it? This is the sort of thing to keep in mind when doing jury duty. It is indeed a sad state of affairs when some of Leviathan's minions have the credibility of a jailhouse snitch.

 

[4Freedom]

You're dead wrong.

These two cops shot EXACTLY as they were trained. I'd bet money on it.

The real culprits in this case are the asshats on the NYPD training echelon that teach these nonsensical techniques (shoot them till they drop) with ZERO followup other than an annual requal that any half-assed shooter in the civilian community could pass with their eyes shut.

NYPD is NOTORIOUS for their civilian accidental shootings and for their miss rate. This isn't new information either, it's been documented thoroughly for three decades.

I don't want the officers to fry, I want everyone who had any authoritative decision making power WRT their training to fry.

These guys, I guarantee it, shot EXACTLY how they were trained. It's not them, it's the system which trained them that is at fault.

Right, the cops shouldn't take any responsibility for blasting off almost 20 rounds into a crowded area with women and young children. Everyone should fry, IMO... Those officers swore to protect and serve the public and they did the exact opposite. If I go and shoot into a crowd of people and the people training me messed up, I'd be the one serving time.

Also, I don't always believe in blaming the government for the wrongdoings of every person. Indeed, I think the entire NYC government is corrupt and ill-trained as a whole. However, I think the NYPD also doesn't take much responsibility for its own gross misconduct at the lower level. Most NYPD officers support and enforce the laws that keep citizens from being able to protect and defend themselves from these type of situations.

IMO, THe NYPD as a whole doesn't care.. YOu don't need years of training to know blasting off rounds in rapid succession in a crowded area can result in killing innocent civilians. Even some punk 15 -year old high schooler should have enough awareness to see this danger, much less trained police officers. Maybe, if these cops had to take more responsibility for wounding innocent bystanders, you may find they would take more time to use caution when approaching a dangerous suspect.

Just because they're a cop, doesn't mean they aren't humans like me and you who cannot be personally held responsible for their actions.

 

[mosinguy]

the one thing that bothers me most is bloomberg and everyone involved will come out smelling like roses and it will be swept under the carpet like all the other bs from there

 

[mosinguy]

ok had time to breath, that is not military type training that was spray and pray and totally wrong.
military training would have been a double tap to center mass no more.... so there should have been a total of 4 shots fired not 16 and the one hand shooting woulld not have happened. to me it sounds like there training was piss poor to say the least... and i dont know if they are used by nypd or not but i think if i had the option a tazer would have been a better choice at 8 to 10 feet........ just my .02

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

From what I have read and heard about this tragic incident (to the innocent bystanders who got shot and ex boss who was killed) was that shooter was not an immediate threat to the general public. His beef was with his ex boss and was not going on a mass shooting rampage like the guy in Denver. He had put the gun in his briefcase and was walking away from the scene of the crime. His goal was to get away, not shoot a bunch of innocent bystanders. The police were the one's who escalated the situation. If they were 8-10 ft away from the suspect they could have rushed and tacked the guy and not even had to draw a gun. The old rule of someone within 21 ft of you can get to you before you can fire a loaded drawn gun would have meant they could have rushed him and had him down before he even had a chance to draw the gun out of his briefcase, let alone fire it. I wonder if NYPD even trains to do this or is it all just draw your gun and spray-n-pray. I think the officers screwed up royally, but in end they will probably walk.What ever happened be sure of your target and everything behind it (and beside it too). It is poor training, poor evaluation and execution and very poor policy of the top officials that allowed this to happen. May the innocent bystanders who got shot as a result of this, have a speedy recovery and made whole again.

 

[Thebastidge]

When the perp escalated the immediat encounter to deadly force, using a firearm against him became justified and recommended. But standard police training is controlled fire. Two to the center of mass, one to the head or hip, then evaluate (split second is all it takes to evaluate). Repeat as necessary.

Why the hip? Because body armour doesn't cover it, and if you break someone's hip they aren't going to do much running either at you or away, no matter how high they are. The joint simply won't work right. And they can bleed out through the femoral artery almost as fast as the aorta.

Another good lesson to take from this shooting: You can get shot and live through it. Some people have an expectation that if they get shot they will fall down dead. Sometimes they do because of this expectation. Mental attitude matters when you're wounded. A determination to hang on will help you hang on. Simply being aware that getting shot is not necessarily going to kill you is a good thing. Some of these folks probably didn't even realize they'd been shot, exactly. It would have come out of nowhere so fast for most of the people walking along with their head down, they didn't know what had happened at first.