New to reloading, gifted 1000 pre-primed cartridges - looking for sage advice

[Whisky Tahoe]

Nwfa reloaders...

I'm new to reloading. Told my uncle who reloads that I'd love to learn and spent a day getting lessons last weekend and ended up being gifted a new rcbs rock chucker Supreme, trickler, 223 dies, powder and more! So excited to get started with such a generous intro.

Now for the question, he also gave me 1000 cartridges he had primed and re boxed some many years ago. (bonus!)
As I was going through them and moving them from their paper boxes to an ammo box, I noticed that many of them are now a bit dusty/dirty.Does this matter? Are they good to go or should I worry about cleaning them somehow before adding powder and projectile?

The gift of reloading equipment is awesome!!! The old primed brass? Super nice not as much as the gear.
Here's why:
223 (and 5.56) ammo is super cheap now so you can by new and save the cases which are now fired in your rifle.
Brass fired in your chamber can take fewer reloading steps. For a few firings anyway.
Reloading 223 (and 5.56) takes a lot of pulls on the handle of your press as well as changing the die for each step.

Try this:
1) Buy some ammo, shoot it, repeat. Build up some fired brass.
2) Don't toss the primed cases, instead SAFELY load up a box (20 or 50) (primed cases deserve respect)
3) Do the same with the brass you saved. Load up a box
4) Do more shooting!!!

Now you have two reloads to compare in your rifle that you can benchmark against the new ammo.
You will know after a box or two which way is best for your gun and results in more fun.

Congrats!!!

 

[Lasers]

Try this:
1) Buy some ammo, shoot it, repeat. Build up some fired brass.

Great idea! Luckily I've been saving my brass for the last 3 years

I'll process 50 of those from end to end and then load up 50 of the pre-primed rounds and compare.

Going to measure some tonight and see how consistent they are, uncle is pretty meticulous, so we'll see!

 

[DLS]

Once when digging around the back of my garage cabinets I came across 25 never fired .44 Mag cases. These were primed over 25 years prior and had been lost in the garage or attic and had suffered many moves over this time. All the cases were corroded to a certain extent, some so much that I would not ever shoot them.

On a whim, I tossed them into my vibratory case cleaner to see how much of the corrosion I could remove. After a couple hours in the corn cob it became apparent that none of these were salvageable. So before scrapping I need to ensure the primers are inert. So why not try to set them off, as the boys will love to make noise. So we loaded them up, pointed the muzzle in a safe direction and pressed the trigger.

All 25 fired with a nice loud report and a consistent bit of flame exiting the 7.5 inch Redhawk barrel! This after 27 years in the damp and heat left in an unsealed box. Case ruining corrosion and a couple of hours in a case cleaner did not hamper these primers one bit. We fired a couple of new primers for comparison. The sound and spit of flame out the barrel were pretty much identical. In retrospect we should have shoved the brass into a brick of paraffin and made them wax wadcutters. Oh well, it was still fun.

Primers are well sealed at the factory, so they can stay in great shape for decades even under the worst of storage conditions. Tumbling primers will not cause any problems. The manufactures tumble loaded rounds for final cleanup prior to packaging. The amount of vibration ammo endures in the machine gun feed boxes of tanks and aircraft is orders of magnitudes greater than what you can do in a case vibrator. They can handle it.

A kernel of media lodging in the flash hole is of no concern. It would be on the exit side of the hole, and as such would be easily pushed out of the way from the primer blast. Remember, a primer alone is able to seat a bullet into the rifling of the barrel, so a tiny piece of corn or walnut won't even register. It will be consumed as the powder burns. In fact, I'll bet there is a lot of this happening with dry vibrated brass. How many actually push a small punch through each and every flash hole after cleaning? I know I didn't when I used dry cleaning methods.

What I would do if I was gifted this brass is tumble the batch until clean and then test fire a few to see if there is something amiss. If they don't fire, just de-prime and reload with fresh primers … you now have clean cases to work with. If they do fire, I would resize them in a die with the decapping rod removed just to ensure consistent case neck tension and to ensure reliable feeding. If the brass is brittle you would see case neck crack begin to show. If this happens stop sizing and anneal the cases (and yes, at this point you would want to decap the rounds).

As far as decapping live primers ... as already stated it's not a problem. Go smooth and easy on the press handle and you will not have problems. In fact you can reuse them if you are desperate. When I was a literally starving college student (the major supply of protein in my diet was my hunting) I still needed to practice for the pistol team. I was given four 5-gallon metal pails filled with .45ACP of totally unknown origin. It was foreign made but boxer primed, I never did discover from the head stamp where it originated. I broke it all down with an inertial bullet puller and decapped each case with a standard resizing die. I now had a pile of components and carefully rebuilt the rounds using the original primers and powder, just less of the powder as I wanted softball target loadings, not the mil-spec is was prior.

BTW just for clarity. I carefully measured the power charge in about 40 randomly chosen rounds. All were loaded the same to within about 2-tenths of a grain. I then reduced the powder load by 15% and fired them along side factory target loads. The recoil was a bit less and the hits were a tiny bit lower on the target so I bumped the charge a bit until both seemed to be the same. I went though all of the components this way without a single misfire. Those cases lasted me for many years before they finally started to split at the mouth and I scrapped them. This is not the only time I've reseated primers too, but since they are cheap and available I probably would not devote the time to do it again. Or not ... I am cheap ... so who knows?

Anyway, the point is you can decap these if you want, again go slow, smoothly and easy and always wear safety glasses whenever you work with primers. You never know when one may go bang ... even though I have yet to ever have it happen.

At least that's what I would do, I hope this helps!

Congrats on the gifts and entering into the reloading world. You will love it.

 

[Legion489]

Well I don't like to put dirty brass through my dies. Tarnished? No problem. Dusty/dirty? Nope. Since you probably don't have a case spinner, and wiping each case down by hand is a pain, so I would tumble. The chances of a primer going off are pretty slim. Also a primer going off should not cause a chain reaction, but anything is possible. Buying one lotto ticket should not win you the jackpot, but odder things have happened so it can happen, but a chain reaction is pretty far down on my list of worries, just after man made global warming being true. Turn the case upside (neck down) down and give the case a good smacks on a piece of wood, or use an inertia bullet puller to smack them, to knock any gunk out. Won't hurt to inspect every case for dents, cracks, etc. anyway.

 

[gmerkt]

When you get a batch of stuff like this, there are always considerations. Many unknowns.

The cases look dirty, including green corrosion being visible inside some. I'm not in favor of running dirty ammo through a rifle, just on principle. You might get by without problems, you might wind up with a stuck case, who knows.

It's tempting to want to go with, "Just load them" and get the free labor out of the deal. But as someone else advised above, you would be disappointed to load 1,000 pieces and discover some problem or other. I'm also for loading a small batch and seeing how they run. First, I'd check them to see if they have been properly sized, trimmed, chamfered, deburred.

As far as tumbling to clean up the cases. I've never wanted to tumble primed cases for reasons someone else said, media grit blocking the flash hole. BUT: wouldn't the force of the primer ignition easily blow out a grit of media? Just wondering, I can't see what goes on inside a case when it goes off. So I don't risk it even with unprimed, tumbled cases. I poke the grit out.

Okay, how about tumbling finished, loaded ammo? Well, years ago I noticed residue of tumbling media in the little groove between the primer pocket and primer on factory Winchester ammo. So I know at least some factories do it. Wouldn't take too long in a tumbler to give a moderate clean. Some reloading books tell you not to do this because motion will degrade the coatings on the powder. And same will tell you not to leave ammo in your car for that reason. BUT: How about those drums of powder they ship over to us from Europe and Australia, rocking back and forth aboard ship for thousands of miles? I think duration of tumbling finished ammo could be the deciding factor. Meaning, I think doing it for an hour doesn't pose much risk. Doing it 24-7 for two weeks might do harm.

Then there is the idea that tumbling finished ammo will somehow result in a primer strike and subquent detonation. I suppose it could happen and for that reason I wouldn't do it, as someone else said, under my child's bed. I'd rather bet on the existence of unicorns. Cases and ammo move though media in a pretty gentle fashion, I don't know that there'd ever be enough force to detonate a primer.

Having said this, I myself won't tumble finished ammo. Because I strive to make sure all components and processes are done properly to preclude the need. I'd also advise against it just to be on the safe side.

Decapping live primers. If you are going to do this, know that all reloading reference material advises against it. It's a tedious process to fire them off one at a time in a rifle. Better to just soak them in water, let them dry, then decap.

Confession: I've decapped thousands of live primers from reclaimed ammo, junk reloads bought cheap at the gun show, my own errors., etc. Done slowly and carefull, never with great force. So far, I've never had one go off. But I don't know it would be such a big deal, as the case is aimed up into the inside of the decapping die. I suppose it could turn around on you somehow and blow back up again but by that time surely most of its very limited force is spent. Wear safety googles? The only time I've had a primer go off on me was when one got seated sideways and I tried to pry it out with too much force. Nothing untoward happened. One thing about "recycled" primers, they don't always fit as snuggly as first time around. I don't like loose primers and won't re-use them.

In the ammo in the pictures, I can make out a head stamp on one, SBMC, that's Squires-Bingham, the old name for Armscor made in the Philippines. The lettering on the brown boxes isn't north American, more like Philippines or Korea. Even though it looks like US military M193. I thought I also could make out a PS head stamp, which is Korean.

The notation on one box, "WW 6-1/2 116" is the old designation for Winchester small rifle primers. Is it my imagination or are those primers dome shaped? If so, they are pretty old. Which doesn't necessarily mean they won't fire. I wonder if there is any issue with these primers as to pressure. Remington #6-1/2's were designed for .22 Hornet which was lower pressure than later centerfires using small rifle primers. And aren't recommended for .223. Just a thought. Winchester still calls their WSR 6-1/2 but I don't know if they have the same value as the old (possibly dome shaped) 6-1/2.

 

[Helocat]

Just remember to not wet tumble primed brass, water from the inside will destroy the old primers.

Me personly, I would load a few and "choot'em".

Also, lots of fuss over 3 cent primers..... they are like 3 cents. Ya time to put them in, but they will pop right out with a $12 delivered universal de primer die. (good to have one anyway) Amazon.com: LEE PRECISION Decapping Die: Sports & Outdoors

As for de-priming live primers? I never had an issue. You should have eye protection on anyway. (I always do reloading)

 

[Member 5605]

Pop the primers in your rifle, size, deprime as normal, trim and tumble THEN reload.

Never reload unknown prepped cases.

This. 100%.

Primers exposed could have collected moisture and become a dud or could go bang just enough to make a squib etc.

As for de-priming live primers? I never had an issue. You should have eye protection on anyway. (I always do reloading)

Same here. Go easy on the stroke, smooth and even pressure until released from their residence.

 

[Helocat]

Tip: Save at least one box as is, its a piece of family history.

I have reloads my grandfather made with my great uncle from the early '60s, long before I was born and its long since both of them passed away. I have kept those boxes with hand notes on them that now my 19yr old son looks forward to owning one day. Those hands that wrote those reload notes, swam the last 50yrds with an M1Garand before he put a foot on a French beach, June 6th, 1944.

 

[Lasers]

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts and experience. I really appreciate it.

I also don't want to disparage the advice I didn't follow, just had to decide what I'd be comfortable with.

After thinking about it, I figured that if Palmetto State Armory could send me 1000 rounds, gun powder and all, loose packed in a box that was beat to hell by the time it arrived, I could put some primed cartridges in a vibration tumbler with crushed walnut and feel reasonably safe doing so.

I ran them all through 2-3 hours in the tumbler with no issues. (before and after pic included).

Now, I've measured several cases and found them to be longer than what I've read for trim to length. This may be because he was loading for a bolt action rifle and knew his chamber tolerances, but it looks like I'll be trimming.

Now I get to try the Forster case trimmer he also gave me!

 

[Lasers]

Also, I didn't use any polish, just the crushed walnut.

I plan to load up about 50 of these and firing them as a test, before doing the rest of the work, ensuring the primers are good.

 

[DLS]

How much longer than "trim to" length are they? If still at or below maximum I'd wait and trim them later. Why put effort into old cases that you don't absolutely need to do?

I would also do a primer check by just firing an empty case, not full loads. If by the improbable but still possible chance the primers are defective you will not be chancing a hang-fire or a squib this way.

If a random 20 or so go bang with a good solid and consistent report then you can move to loading a few test rounds. Do this in a dark location as you may be able to see a spit of flame come from the barrel. This is rare with a rifle, but if you can see the flash this is another element you can use to guesstimate consistency.

I really doubt these primers are corrosive but in case they are use an old Black Powder shooters trick. Tip the barrel down and spray Windex liberally into the chamber and let it drain out the barrel. The water will place the salts into solution and the small amount of ammonia will neutralize the corrosive components without any risk of hurting the barrel.

Run a clean patch to dry the chamber and bore, then either oil it up if it's just a few primers or clean as usual if you dirtied it up beyond that.

I hope this helps.

 

[DizzyJ]

Glad to hear you're checking dimensions. Have you compared the distance from the base to the shoulder on these vs cases you've already fired from your chamber?

 

[cookie]

Do you have a case gauge? It is the best aid you can buy . If you have a 223/5.56 rifle do the cases fit into the chamber? Ask uncle about the cases. Load case into the chamber close the bolt and see if it fires using all gun safety procedures a box of cases will work, the noise will be like a 22 lr out of a rifle or a bit less. I never have cleaned lube out of any cartridge I have reloaded. 300 Weatherby mag ,308, 30'06, 338 Lapua and 9mm 38/357, 45acp and 40 S&W since 1973. With a 550 Dillon . I first had the Rockchucker and it great press. Reloading is fairly easy once mastered ,Get a reloading manual, there is a learning curve so go slow check, recheck and then check one or two more times. I have resized 500 primed cases several years Ago .Wear safety glasses as you should anyway and hearing protection in this case.

 

[Lasers]

I don't have a case Guage, but I have a micrometer. I measured some case lengths from old vs new brass.

Let me know what else could be helpful. I'm using the Lymans reloading handbook specs (pic too)

 

[Lasers]

Photo's went in a weird order, so here's a written summary:

Gifted round 1 - 1.763
Gifted round 2 - 1.764
Gifted round 3 - 1.763
Gifted round 4 - 1.766
Gifted round 5 - 1.762

My once fired cases have *not* been resized

My fired round 1 - 1.751
My fired round 2 - 1.750
My fired round 3 - 1.746
My fired round 4 - 1.741

 

[DLS]

Max case length for the .223 / 5.56 case is 1.760 inch so it looks like these gifted rounds are right at the edge and could do with a trim. It's a pain, especially with a hand trimmer but a necessary element of safe case prep.

The typical trim length is 0.010 inch less than maximum, so set your trimmer to 1.750 inch as the loading book photo you posted states.

It's nice to keep all cases in a batch uniform. It makes for less record keeping and reduces the chance of issues (such as differing levels of crimp). So I would trim the entire batch. With as many cases as you have and your gifted hand trimmer I'd plan on doing a few at a time until the entire batch is done. Say 50 before dinner and 50 after each day for a week or so. Or pre-load a dose of Motrin and go for it, expecting major hand cramps and wrist cramps from all that cranking!

Keep track of the number of trimmings so you can watch for incipient head separation issues developing. Also, in case you are not aware, you trim after you resize the cases.

I hope this helps.

 

[DLS]

Or … if you know a local loader that has a powered case trimmer see if you can borrow it for a spell!

 

[Lasers]

Or … if you know a local loader that has a powered case trimmer see if you can borrow it for a spell!

Looks like Midway makes and adapter for $15, might be well worth it

Forster Case Trimmer Power Adapter

This accessory is perfect for the reloader looking to speed up the case trimming process while they are using their Forster Case Trimmer. Simply remove...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Looks like Midway makes and adapter for $15, might be well worth it

Forster Case Trimmer Power Adapter

This accessory is perfect for the reloader looking to speed up the case trimming process while they are using their Forster Case Trimmer. Simply remove...

www.midwayusa.com

Lasers, you are taking a great approach and kudos for checking and deciding to trim.
One other Forster accessory that really helps with trimming that many cases is the 3in1 cutter attachment. It trims, chamfers/bevels, and deburrs all with a few turns of the power tool. Once you have the cutter attached, you can adjust the trimmer to cut the length you want. All the rest will be the same length as well.

 

[CLT65]

I bought a WFT trimmer a while back. It's amazing, wish I'd have bought one sooner. It takes most of the pain and boredom out of brass trimming.

Just to toss in my 2c worth; I've deprimed an awful lot of live primers over the years too. I only ever remember having one go off, and it startled me but didn't hurt anything. It was a heavily crimped military primer. Eye Protection, just in case, and make absolutely certain that you catch the primers one at a time. If they go in bulk down into a primer catcher, and one sets the rest off, that could be REALLY bad.

As to dry tumbling primed brass, and bits of media getting stuck in flash holes, I've run across this also. A very long time ago I was given some similar brass, old, grungy, primed 30-06. I tumbled it clean, and noticed bits of corn cob or walnut (I forget) in many of the flash holes. I couldn't shake them out so I did an experiment. I loaded a few of them up and shot them for accuracy. They all went off and accuracy was normal. I'm not recommending it or even saying I would do it again, just that it worked for me. In general, I really don't like the idea of anything being inside that case that shouldn't be. I've gotten a lot more particular over the years.