New to ARs, looking for suggestions

[3MTA3]

It's a buyer's market

Nice package deal! If I bought PSA I'd be inclined to disassemble and then reassemble making sure that it's all correct and proper lubes like Aeroshell are used. PSA parts are great - they supply just about everything to FN except the barrels for their M4 contract, but have been prone to inconsistent assembly issues in the past.

Agreed, take advantage now. I did after the last scare and am happy I did. It won't last forever, though, so act before inventories normalize.

 

[osprey]

For a close quarters and mid range I think having a rugged red dot cowitnessed with a folding rear buis and permanent a2 front sight is the way to go. For a Dmr type build where a scope will live on the rail I would forgo the A2 and put a small red dot on a slant mount for up close and med range work. That is the way I like them set up but you may have different preferences. That is why the AR is such a great platform as the modularity allows you to tailor a build to fit your circumstances. Have fun!

 

[PiratePast40]

The number and types of options can be pretty mind boggling and confusing. Some prefer to build their own, just be aware that, like most hobbies, it would be rare to get your investment back in $$ if you ever want to sell it. Going with a S&W Sport II, or a Ruger AR556 will give you a major manufacturers warranty with a known support system. PSA premium are also good products in that quality range.

You say you want it for home defense, but most people also want to use a gun at the range as well. A good shooter in .556 will give you more enjoyment and also give you the option of cheaper and more plentiful ammunition.

Like lawyers, ask 3 gun owners which is the best gun and you'll get 5 opinions. And yes, it's pretty much a can of worms you've opened up here. Almost as bad as a "lube thread"!

Since we've touched on optics, I think a reflex sight is also a great option for a home defense weapon. If you want to try one to see if you would like it, here's a low cost option that you can almost throw away if the concept doesn't work for you: Amazon.com : Field Sport Red and Green Reflex Sight with 4 Reticles : Sports & Outdoors

 

[NW_bang_bang]

For now stick with the standard furniture until you determine a preference. I personally like the standard magpul hand guard, magpul MIAD grip (adjustable to hand size and configuration, and minimalist stock. I also like the magpul trigger guard. Shown below is my Ruger AR556 in this configuration. This gives you a very handy rifle. I do recommend the Ruger as an entry level rifle - the barrel profile gives it an excellent balance, the fir and finish are excellent, and honestly it feels like a more expensive rifle than it is.
View attachment 355067

While I get used to the gun, I definitely plan on keeping the standard furniture. I'll end up modifying it I'm sure, but not right off the bat. That's one of the reasons I was really interested in the SA Saint. I haven't been able to find a Saint in store to get a feel for, however have held an AR with the same BCM grip and I preferred the more vertical grip angle as opposed to the others with Magpul and factory furniture.

If you're looking for suggestions and like and want to keep things in 45 ACP, then why not keep things in 45 ACP? And mitigate the recoil in the same instant: KRISS USA - Kriss Vector gen II SDP Black KV45-PBL20

If you want a 300 blk, you can always build it in 300... The recoil shouldn't be that much more. And you can always get an extra heavy buffer to help out.

But back to your original issue, if you want a carbine and want to put an optic on there, your FSB doesn't have to be an issue, this is what I'm planning on doing with my 308 carbine. From what I've been told, the FSB won't even get in the way of the red dot.

Just a few thoughts...

View attachment 355072

Thank you for the thoughts! My preference for .45 was just an example, but that is one interesting looking weapon. I think it's a bit out of my price range for now.

I'd really like to do a .300 blk build, think I'll keep that for a second or third after I get comfortable with the platform and when I can afford the tax stamp for a suppressor

I was wondering if anybody made rails like the photo you attached, or if I could modify one. That's definitely a good option and something to keep in mind!

 

[Capn Jack]

Why don't you just build one of these?

 

[NW_bang_bang]

Actually it is beneficial in many ways to have the permanent A2 front sight and a folding rear. A red dot can be co- witnessed and you have a great redundant sight system.

At first glance the n00b is going to think that the A2 front sight is going to be in the way of the optic.
When in fact it actually is not.
Many A2 front sights get n00b-mutilated because of this first impression.

Definitely some good points here! I've looked into A2 sight removal and low profile gas blocks and you're right, not a newbie job. How would you compare it to building from a complete upper and lower? If I go with something with an A2 sight, removal is something I would do down the road and I'm not against having co-witness for a while.

I'm definitely a noob, no arguments there, but I have looked into co-witness and like the idea a lot I was only thinking about removing the A2 down the line if I change out to a full length rail. Now I know there are more options, which is awesome!

 

[3MTA3]

While I get used to the gun, I definitely plan on keeping the standard furniture. I'll end up modifying it I'm sure, but not right off the bat. That's one of the reasons I was really interested in the SA Saint. I haven't been able to find a Saint in store to get a feel for, however have held an AR with the same BCM grip and I preferred the more vertical grip angle as opposed to the others with Magpul and factory furniture.

Northwest Armory (nwarmory.com) had them on sale last week and may have some in stock. Sportsmans may also have some in stock - I'd go to the closest and if they don't have them check other store's inventory for you.

 

[NW_bang_bang]

The number and types of options can be pretty mind boggling and confusing. Some prefer to build their own, just be aware that, like most hobbies, it would be rare to get your investment back in $$ if you ever want to sell it. Going with a S&W Sport II, or a Ruger AR556 will give you a major manufacturers warranty with a known support system. PSA premium are also good products in that quality range.

You say you want it for home defense, but most people also want to use a gun at the range as well. A good shooter in .556 will give you more enjoyment and also give you the option of cheaper and more plentiful ammunition.

Like lawyers, ask 3 gun owners which is the best gun and you'll get 5 opinions. And yes, it's pretty much a can of worms you've opened up here. Almost as bad as a "lube thread"!

Since we've touched on optics, I think a reflex sight is also a great option for a home defense weapon. If you want to try one to see if you would like it, here's a low cost option that you can almost throw away if the concept doesn't work for you: Amazon.com : Field Sport Red and Green Reflex Sight with 4 Reticles : Sports & Outdoors

You hit the nail on the head with confusing amount of options! The S&W and Ruger are on my shortlist at the moment. I do like some of the features that come on some slightly more expensive guns in the $900-1000 range. Looks like I can get into a possibly nicer barrel and maybe a bit more accuracy. Which leads to your second statement about range time. I definitely plan on putting a few rounds through it. No sense in having a defensive weapon if you don't practice with it

I was pretty set on a micro dot (ex: Primary Arms Micro Dot With Removable Base MD-RBGII), but at that price I might give that reflex sight a try. I had a similar designed reflex sight on an old Crosman air gun that gave me trouble, but I think it was a Crosman brand sight that I bought at Kmart for $10-15. Quality must have improved since then and I was 9 or 10, so hopefully I've improved too

 

[NW_bang_bang]

Northwest Armory (nwarmory.com) had them on sale last week and may have some in stock. Sportsmans may also have some in stock - I'd go to the closest and if they don't have them check other store's inventory for you.

Thank you for the tips! After I get going this morning, I was thinking about heading to the Vancouver Sportsman's and a couple other local shops to see if I can find one and what else they have in stock.

Thank you again everybody. I like talking to employees at the store, but it's nice to get opinions from people who aren't trying to sell

 

[Brutus57]

At first glance the n00b is going to think that the A2 front sight is going to be in the way of the optic.
When in fact it actually is not.
Many A2 front sights get n00b-mutilated because of this first impression.

Indeed, my carbine has an Aero Precision lower and BCM HBAR complete upper with front fixed sight and it is no problem with a 2x7 Redfield Revolution mounted on an Aero SPR extended mount.

For about $500 if you want a flat top get the Ruger 5.56. For a factory rifle that price is pretty darn good.

Brutus Out

 

[uberguy]

+1 on PSA for a bargain but solid AR. Never a hiccup.
As reliable as my Colt 6920. Like some others, I agree it makes no sense to pay upscale then rip it apart with front sight, changing gas tube, FF/railed handguard, etc.
Midlength is better than carbine and I prefer an AimPoint over Eotech (own both). Vortex are cheap but popular. Always good to support your local FFL, but Grab-A-Gun has S&W M&P ARs on sale @ $525 w/$8 shipping.
PSA has a complete kit (add your own lower) @$420 w/free shipping - it's easy to assemble, lots of youtube vids on how-to. The PSA is a midlength with low profile gas block with a rifle length alum/railed M-Lok/FF handguard. PSA 16" Mid-length 5.56 NATO 1:8 Stainless 13.5" M-Lok MOE Freedom Rifle Kit
BTW, plenty of frangible 5.56mm ammo around for short range self-defense minimizing over penetration concerns; e.g. Winchester® USA 5.56 Frangible Rifle Ammunition : Cabela's

 

[bbbass]

Bought my daughter a PSA 16" upper with a mid-length gas system... she loves it.

There's just something about a Ruger tho.

 

[ChaoticReason]

Lots of good options for you to look into. Here's a link for that handguard. I forgot to put it in the last post. Leapers UTG PRO Model 4 SuperSlim Drop-in Handguard - Carbine Length MTU015SS w/ Free Shipping

 

[NW_bang_bang]

Thank you all! I'm starting to lean towards PSA. Pics will be forthcoming when I finally get a hold of something

 

[ma96782]

I think that putting together an AR is entirely doable. My son put together his first AR at about 13 years old (with the help of YouTube).

So having said that.....
IMHO.....PSA is a fine company to deal with. And, for a budget build, I would buy an Anderson or PSA receiver. I have owned both, without problems. IMHO, just don't buy a BLEM (you never know what you're gonna' get).

And, when you're pricing out your kit build........don't forget to add for FFL fees and shipping/insurance.

Special Note for WA residents: Your purchase will be taxed at your WA FFL. And, you won't skirt the WA taxman if you ship a bare receiver to OR and (try to) pick it up there. A bare receiver is an "other." So, the OR FFL will treat the transfer (for their 4473 form purpose) like as if it were a pistol. Thus, if your OR FFL gets the delivery....he'll have to pass it to a WA FFL before delivery to you.

IMHO....just ship the bare receiver to your WA FFL and pay the taxes, shipping/insurance and fees.

Course, if you want to, you're still free to buy your bare receiver in WA. Or, your rifle in OR.

Aloha, Mark

 

[AMProducts]

Without getting into the headaches of interstate transfer. Just buy the lower/complete gun in state and call it a day. I realize assembling an AR for the newb can be a little daunting, and there are a few things that give even seasoned builders headaches (mostly the roll pins, and the spring detents).

I will definitely recommend PSA, especially any of the CHF-CL m4 style barrels, both of my recent builds have PSA uppers, one is a 16", and the other a 10.5" pistol. I took them out of the box, wiped the factory preservative off the BCG, and applied a little bit of frog-lube to the contact points and put a few drops of rem-oil into the cam pin slot, and then proceeded to put several hundred rounds through each without a hiccup.

As far as the front sight base/front sight tower goes. If you're thinking of going red-dot, you can just mount your red-dot slightly higher so it clears the FSB, most red dots like the vortex and the like are already set up this way (you get what's called lower 1/3 co-witness, so the FSB sits in the lower 1/3 of the reticule). If you're running BUIS (back-up iron sights) if you have a flip-up rear, you can mount your red-dot far enough forward that you just flip up the sight and look through the red-dot. I would really recommend running BUIS with a red-dot. Main reason: your optic is battery powered, if you have no battery, you have no sight!

For the sake of completeness, Primary arms (micro-dot II) , Bushnell (TRS-25), Holosun need a .8" riser for the lower 1/3 co-witness to work right. Some of them include the riser (holosun) most don't (PA, TRS-25).

If you're going to mount a combat optic like an RCO (low power usually 0-5x) the FSB will grey out and not cause you problems. If you're mounting a larger target or hunting type scope, then by all means chop off the FSB.

In general, if you're going to run a gun with a free-float tube, just forget about BUIS, they look really tacticool, but they are a waste of time. BUIS mounted on a FFT will likely not match the point of aim as the gun, and may not even have enough adjustment to compensate for the lack of alignment. Back when FFT rails started to get popular I would run into people at the range with the latest Daniel Defense who would say "waaah my gun's broken" and after a bit of questioning, and looking, they didn't mount an optic, and instead had BUIS on a FFT. So realize this caveat before you go tearing the FSB off the gun, as the second you do, you are stuck with optics-only.

My top recommendations (in no particular order):

S&W M&P-15 (the sport model is cheaper, but lacks forward assist and a dust cover, some care, some don't, just be aware of it)

FN FN-15 (pretty much a more expensive version of the PSA, with more rigorous quality control)

PSA (pretty much the same as the FN, but I've seen a few people complain about quality control issues, specifically FSB not installed straight)

Stag (I have a few of these, however they're older models circa 2006) Rock solid, never an issue with them. I know as a company they got into some trouble and had their FFL pulled. I don't know if their quality went with it.

BCM (I have yet to meet anyone who won't shut-up about the quality of their BCM)

Brands I don't recommend (and a quick why):

Colt - Generally attracting a premium price from a company that lost it's military contract due to quality control issues. (to FN) Most of the Colt's I've seen over the years have a low fit and finish quality and it really seems like colt never gave a crap once the pony was embossed into the side of the gun.

DPMS - I won't knock DPMS as hard as I do colt, but DPMS is the del taco of AR makers, their products are generally ok, but nothing fancy. Given the number of really high quality AR's on the market right now, I would go somewhere else.

Bushmaster - Bushy used to be the benchmark in AR's, however they got bought by freedom group, and are essentially run out of the same parts chain as DPMS. It's ok, just nothing that great.

Olympic arms - This is kinda've a moot point by now, as they're pretty much out of business. I'm sure there are some new guns that have been dumped on the market while they cleared their backlog of parts. Oly always tried to make a good product, but things like mathematics, skill, and talent seemed to get in the way.

Other makers:

Rainier, Aero, etc - I have seen a few of the parts put together from these companies, I've never seen a completed gun. the machining is good, and the parts are well made. I just don't have enough information to offer a buy/no buy.

Premium AR's - POF, Noveske, LWRC, etc These people charge about 3x what you would pay for any of those on my "recommend" list, as such, if there is even a machining burr that wasn't polished to velvety smooth with felt made from the pubic hair of elves people will complain about it on the intertubes. Just like anyone making interchangeable parts, there are occasions where tolerances build up and something doesn't work right out of the factory and it got missed in QC. I wouldn't sweat it, just call them and get them to fix it. However, this is all predicated on you wanting to spend $2000 on an AR (at that point, I would rather buy an FN-SCAR)

 

[osprey]

I also am very high on psa fn chf barrels and have had very good accuracy results with them. While I prefer a rigid A2 style front sight to co witness with a holographic red dot, I have had zero problems with repeatability with rail mounted front sights on a ff handguard, unlike the last poster. If you want ultimate reliability for the apocalypse definitely get a fixed A2 front sight. If it is a range toy a set of magpuls on the rail will work just fine as long as the handguard is properly tightened.

 

[DirectDrive]

I also am very high on psa fn chf barrels and have had very good accuracy results with them. While I prefer a rigid A2 style front sight to co witness with a holographic red dot, I have had zero problems with repeatability with rail mounted front sights on a ff handguard, unlike the last poster. If you want ultimate reliability for the apocalypse definitely get a fixed A2 front sight. If it is a range toy a set of magpuls on the rail will work just fine as long as the handguard is properly tightened.

Mounting an optic on the rail, while doable is considered a no no.
A patrol rifle would never be set up that way.
Mount to the receiver every chance you get.

 

[3MTA3]

If you are going to build make sure you factor in the price of tools. You need:

• Bench vice
• Vice blocks for upper and lower receiver
• AR Armorer's tool
• Torque wrench
• A punch set for the fire control group and dust cover
• Aeroshell (buy small container on eBay) or anti sieze for the barrel nut and castle nut.

DON'T get a heavy barrel profile as it will kill the balance of your rifle unless it's only going to be a range queen where it won't matter. Even .gov has conceded the M4 profile barrel is a mistake to fix a problem the wrong way and is moving to a lighter profile. I'd suggest a lightweight or pencil barrel for the OP's stated home defense/CQB requirement. At the end of the day try to keep the balance over the mag well or behind.

Keep your build simple and as close to a basic M4 configuration as possible naturally using whatever furniture you like. Gun shops are usually happy to let you browse and handle rifles that may already have the same buttstock, grip, etc.. I'd suggest an improved trigger during a build, specifically the ALG ACT which is a huge improvement over a standard Mil Spec trigger at a great price.

Keep in mind that if you ever use this rifle in self defense it will be confiscated pending investigation and handled like it's a chunk of scrap steel by the police.

 

[uberguy]

I'd suggest, for a newbe to buy a complete upper, PSA or other, buy a stripped lower - some are sold with a lower parts kit (LPK) and assemble the lower with basic tools - whereas assembling the upper needs stuff 3MTA3 listed. +1 on the ALG trigger, well worth the modest price bump.