New Revolver caliber

[Certaindeaf]

And they don't trust you.

I'd never trust a jacketed bullet to expand at 800fps.. unless you're shooting cinderblock that is.

 

[The Heretic]

I'd never trust a jacketed bullet to expand at 800fps.. unless you're shooting cinderblock that is.

Modern JHPs do quite well in gel tests at velocities under 1000 fps when the proper bullet is selected.

Hornady .44 special defense ammo

180 gr. XTP from 7.5" barrel

MUZZLE - 1000 fps
50 YARDS - 935 fps
100 YARDS - 882 fps

165 gr. FTX from 2.5" barrel

muzzle - 900
50 yards - 848
100 yards - 802

Both are designed to expand out to 100 yards.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Modern JHPs do quite well in gel tests at velocities under 1000 fps when the proper bullet is selected.

Hornady .44 special defense ammo

180 gr. XTP from 7.5" barrel

MUZZLE - 1000 fps
50 YARDS - 935 fps
100 YARDS - 882 fps

165 gr. FTX from 2.5" barrel

muzzle - 900
50 yards - 848
100 yards - 802

Both are designed to expand out to 100 yards.

And the 180gr goes 800fps. no thanks

 

[SynapticSilence]

So you went to the Defense Language institute in Monterey? That was supposed to be an incredible experiance. We spent 90 days in Europe a couple of falls ago, amazing how much German I lost. It is still the language to know in Europe. Even my wife's Hungarian relatives were better with German than English........and that is a language unto its own. My wife told them she would like to learn some Hungarian......there response was "why" no one else uses it. I would have thought with your background you would have been a natural for some ABC agency or international busisness. I don't regret my time either buy it was best to get out when I did. I could have stayed buy they pulled me from flight status and I would never been away from a desk. At that point it was just another job, I paid myself a lot better than they ever did and I could still play the game as I wanted. Like you, I saw a lot of history up close first hand both while in and after I got out. In the end, all any of us have is memories and stories (unless Alzheimer's gets us) guys like you and I have the best. Sometimes it reminds me of Forrest Gump. stay in touch.

Yeah, I got to go to DLI twice. First time was for Bulgarian and then back again later for German. But I spent most of the time as a German linguist. Not the hardest language, but it's grammar is just so danged precise. But it was living in Berlin for 11 years that really got my German up to speed. School only does so much. A lot of my friends did go into those areas, but the world had changed by '93 and most of the people they were looking for were either Russian linguists, Arabic linguists, Chinese linguists, or something really esoteric like Hindi Urdu, etc. Now they're probably looking for Russian linguists (or Korean) again. I had gotten involved with psychology when we had a suicide cluster at the training base I was at and it just called my name more than looking for a Defense or State Department job. I've had a great second career and my wife's now a psychiatric nurse practitioner. I'm semi-retired and she's seven years younger than I am, so she'll support me in my old age.

 

[Argonaut]

A young guy that worked for me in my marine salvage company had flown Navy P2's (?) out of Japan over Korea. He was the linguist in the listening seat, flew the same route as the plane they forced down and held the crew for a while.....was that in the early 90's ? He was waiting to go to work for one of the letter agencies and worked for me in between the USN and ..... I bet he is busy right now.

 

[JohnFay]

Interesting conversation, I have some of each I guess....lots of guns. The problem we are up against in my state is it is illegal to hunt big game with anything less than a 44 mag. 357 is a great caliber but pales in every way when compared with a 44. 45 Colt can be loaded as hot but convince a game warden of that. I spent an afternoon with Elmer Keith in the early 80's. He felt that the 44 was his crowning achievement and I agree. The only way to shoot big calibers cheep is reload. I load a 44 mag for about the same cost as a 45 ACP. The 41 mag is a useless caliber. bullet selection is poor, it won't do what a 44 will and does not shoot as nicely as a 357. I have owned many calibers and guns that were useful and fun. I had a AMT 45 Winchester Magnum that I could drive nails with at 50 feet but ammo is very difficult to find and parts can be impossible. For basic go to guns it is best to stay with common guns and calibers. My 629 has the lock system, I have never messed with it and not had any trouble. My buddy brought a new performance shop 7" 629 to the ranch on eclipse day. We shot both my 4 inch and his.....everybody shot my 4" better than his long barrel. He offered me 1000.00 and his new gun for mine......I like mine just fine and a long barrel handgun is too tough to carry. He shot a perfect score with mine on a 50' small bore target. So, get a 44, buy ammo when it is on sale, save the brass and reload. It is the most sensible choice for your criteria. I am not a fan of the big Ruger handguns, off course they are tough but also impossible to carry comfortably and feel like a club. As big as my N frames are, they feel refined and sleek compared to a Redhawk.

Dear Argonaut,
I have to disagree with you, strongly, as regards your opinion on the .41 Magnum being a useless caliber.
I've had mine (Model 57) for over 10 years (As well as a gorgeous pair of Model 29's and a Model 27 and a 6" colt Python so I am very familiar with .44 magnum and .357 Magnum.) And in one respect you are half right as there are not as many bullet options for the .41 as there are for some other calibers but there are still plenty of good options out there to make it a very versatile weapon. My .41 will do pretty much ANYTHING that a .44 Mag will do and with its 8 3/8 inch barrel my Model 57 shoots every bit a nice as as either of my .357"s and instead of the "Snap" you get when firing a .44, the .41 gives a very nice "Push" instead. The ballistics on a .41 at ranges over 75 yards are actually better than those of the .44 Mag and I have shot some crazy tight groups at distances that would surprise you. The .41 Mag is a highly overlooked and underrated round that you should give a much closer look at. I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised if you give it an honest chance to impress you.

With Best Regards

John: Atlanra, GA.

 

[Argonaut]

Dear Argonaut,
I have to disagree with you, strongly, as regards your opinion on the .41 Magnum being a useless caliber.
I've had mine (Model 57) for over 10 years (As well as a gorgeous pair of Model 29's and a Model 27 and a 6" colt Python so I am very familiar with .44 magnum and .357 Magnum.) And in one respect you are half right as there are not as many bullet options for the .41 as there are for some other calibers but there are still plenty of good options out there to make it a very versatile weapon. My .41 will do pretty much ANYTHING that a .44 Mag will do and with its 8 3/8 inch barrel my Model 57 shoots every bit a nice as as either of my .357"s and instead of the "Snap" you get when firing a .44, the .41 gives a very nice "Push" instead. The ballistics on a .41 at ranges over 75 yards are actually better than those of the .44 Mag and I have shot some crazy tight groups at distances that would surprise you. The .41 Mag is a highly overlooked and underrated round that you should give a much closer look at. I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised if you give it an honest chance to impress you.

With Best Regards

John: Atlanra, GA.

So....what bullet choices do you have with a 41? How about shot shells? When was the last time you found ammo on sale or a rifle in the caliber. I agree it is probably as effective for most uses but even its designer (Elmer Keith) considered it less effective than his masterpiece 44 mag.......where is Georgia? Is that even in the US? Maby some hidden corner of the Northwest? Elmer was an Idahoan, he carried a 44......I remember now, one of my great uncles died in a place called Andersonville after traveling from Montana to help put down a little insurrection there. My great grandfather also a westerner, was with Sherman as he made new roads there. Is that where you live?

 

[Tully Mars]

So....what bullet choices do you have with a 41? How about shot shells? When was the last time you found ammo on sale or a rifle in the caliber. I agree it is probably as effective for most uses but even its designer (Elmer Keith) considered it less effective than his the masterpiece 44 mag.......where is Georgia? Is that even in the US? Maby some hidden corner of the Northwest? Elmer was an Idahoan, he carried a 44.

Bless yer heart.
You were rather rude don't you think? While the gentleman stated he disagreed with you he presented his views in a factual and polite manner. The latter being something you failed to do. As to where Georgia is located? It's the state just east of mine(towards the Atlantic) in the lower Southeast of the US.

 

[Argonaut]

You didn't read the rest of the post........it gets better.

 

[Tully Mars]

I read it.
What's your point?
I had several relatives serve on BOTH sides during the War of Northern Aggression. Doesn't give one license to exhibit rude behavior.

 

[Argonaut]

That is one of the few things that don't require a licence. This is a Northwest forum.....I have lived all over the world but am a 7th generation Idahoan. Born 40 miles from where where General Mattis was. After extensive experiance, I view people with roots east of the Mississippi with skepticism. I have delt with many people that were very polite as they stuck you in the back.

 

[Tully Mars]

I was invited to join this forum by someone from Oregon, who knowing my interest in firearms and the fact that I was Born and raised in Yakima WASHINGTON thought I would enjoy it here. I too have worked and lived on every continent-including Antarctica. Met the person that is now my wife and live on her folks old homestead here in Bama. I too have met many folks while working in North Dakota oil fields that said they were from Idaho, drove trucks with Idaho plates so I guess they were. I mention this because with out one single exception these folks were of the most untrustworthy lot I've ever come across in these United States. Ran out on unpaid bills, lied, stole from quarries and job sites. So ya see, lots of folks don't trust Idahoans either. As a matter of fact, if one looks hard enough they can find @sshats in every state or country..

No one has told me that I could not be a member here because I no longer live with the rest of my family in the PNW. If it worries you that much have a mod drop me a line. If that's the rule, then I have no problem complying.

 

[DeanMk]

Tully,

Welcome to the forum. One of the prettiest deer hunts I ever went on was out in Yakima.
Don't mind Argo. It's just the internet. You're going to run into a million people who may choose to post rudely. I'm guilty of doing it myself. Doesn't necessarily make us "bad", just passionate about whatever the subject is.
Kick back, pull up a chair and sit a spell. This really is a pretty cool place to hang out.


Dean

 

[AK0perator47]

Does anyone know about the S&W 586-7 4" barrel model that is not a performance center but supposedly is a limited production line? If so what is the price?

 

[Captain O]

Dear Argonaut,
I have to disagree with you, strongly, as regards your opinion on the .41 Magnum being a useless caliber.
I've had mine (Model 57) for over 10 years (As well as a gorgeous pair of Model 29's and a Model 27 and a 6" colt Python so I am very familiar with .44 magnum and .357 Magnum.) And in one respect you are half right as there are not as many bullet options for the .41 as there are for some other calibers but there are still plenty of good options out there to make it a very versatile weapon. My .41 will do pretty much ANYTHING that a .44 Mag will do and with its 8 3/8 inch barrel my Model 57 shoots every bit a nice as as either of my .357"s and instead of the "Snap" you get when firing a .44, the .41 gives a very nice "Push" instead. The ballistics on a .41 at ranges over 75 yards are actually better than those of the .44 Mag and I have shot some crazy tight groups at distances that would surprise you. The .41 Mag is a highly overlooked and underrated round that you should give a much closer look at. I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised if you give it an honest chance to impress you.

With Best Regards

John: Atlanra, GA.

John,

I tend to agree with you. While there may be greater bullet availability with the .44 Magnum, I find the .41 Magnum is a more accurate round. The .41 Remington Magnum was Elmer Keith's answer in the quest of the "ultimate police revolver". His 210-grain LSWCHP at 900 fps was more accurate than the .44 Magnum and, as you said had more of a "push" than a "snap" generated by the .44. If the LSWCGCHP is loaded to 1000 fps, 466.46 fpe is quite potent and will stop most, if not all, human aggressors. At "full-tilt boogie" loads, (1400 fps) the .41 Magnum generates a healthy 914 fpe which can take deer from a handgun and 1706 from a 16" Carbine barrel and churns out 1357 fpe at the muzzle. That's enough to do the job at "woods ranges" (100 yards) without any difficulty.

While a .44 Remington Magnum is nice, I feel that the .41 Remington Magnum handgun cartridge does this with sufficient "finesse" to accomplish the tasks at hand without abusing the arm, or the shooter. (Can you tell that I like it)?

 

[DeanMk]

Yeah, the .41 mag with the SP bullet was supposed to be the "hunting load", while the version with the LSWC was supposed to be the "police load", thus creating one "do-all" round within the compactness of only two load variations.
The problem is they hardly advertised that fact and most police were equipped with the hunting load instead of the one they were supposed to use.
This is why most cops of the time decided to stick with their .357's. It was more controllable and powerful enough.
Truth was, the lower powered .41 load was a better man-stopper while being just as (or for some, even more) controllable than the vaunted .357.
I remember reading that it was the police version of the .41 mag that inspired Skeeter Skelton to develop his fabled .44 Special load.


Dean

 

[Captain O]

Yeah, the .41 mag with the SP bullet was supposed to be the "hunting load", while the version with the LSWC was supposed to be the "police load", thus creating one "do-all" round within the compactness of only two load variations.
The problem is they hardly advertised that fact and most police were equipped with the hunting load instead of the one they were supposed to use.
This is why most cops of the time decided to stick with their .357's. It was more controllable and powerful enough.
Truth was, the lower powered .41 load was a better man-stopper while being just as (or for some, even more) controllable than the vaunted .357.
I remember reading that it was the police version of the .41 mag that inspired Skeeter Skelton to develop his fabled .44 Special load.


Dean

I have an S&W Model 657 (6" barrel) and an S&W Model 58 that I had "Parkerized". I like them both enough that I would never sell either one of them.

 

[Tully Mars]

View attachment 390252 View attachment 390251
Does anyone know about the S&W 586-7 4" barrel model that is not a performance center but supposedly is a limited production line? If so what is the price?

Beautiful revolver!