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SB348 Real or fake "opposed" testimony?

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I'm not sure what to think, but considering the testimony submission process... easily spoofable. If so... it's pretty clever and funny, though.

Not that it matters to the flunkies in government but 179 opposed testimony to 1 in support isn't a bad look. Then again.... only 180 in the state have bothered to submit testimony, so far?? Seems a little thin, doesn't it.
 
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i submitted my testimony. I'll say it again.... they are far more organized than us. They are hungry to disarm us while gun owners are extremely complacent and not as involved.
 
Wrong, just outnumbered. Grossly outnumbered.
I disagree. I believe we far outnumber the anti gun Oregonians. What we don't have is groups of people providing support, much less actually testifying in front of committees. Look at what happened with 114. We were beaten by organized east coast groups. I believe we could have changed the outcome if each one of knocked on 10 more doors, handed out another hundred flyers, asked friends to contact their friends, or did more on social media. Remember, they only won with 0.7% of the majority. What I don't see is forum members attending functions and meetings about submitting testimony, writing letters, or becoming more aware of what's going on in the legislature. It's a small group of people that take the time to attend the meetings.

If there was ever a time for unity, it would be now. Call and email friends and ask them to submit testimony. Take a day off from work and come down to the rally at the capitol tomorrow. Donate more to the groups bringing the lawsuits against these transgressions.
 
I disagree. I believe we far outnumber the anti gun Oregonians. What we don't have is groups of people providing support, much less actually testifying in front of committees. Look at what happened with 114. We were beaten by organized east coast groups. I believe we could have changed the outcome if each one of knocked on 10 more doors, handed out another hundred flyers, asked friends to contact their friends, or did more on social media. Remember, they only won with 0.7% of the majority. What I don't see is forum members attending functions and meetings about submitting testimony, writing letters, or becoming more aware of what's going on in the legislature. It's a small group of people that take the time to attend the meetings.

If there was ever a time for unity, it would be now. Call and email friends and ask them to submit testimony. Take a day off from work and come down to the rally at the capitol tomorrow. Donate more to the groups bringing the lawsuits against these transgressions.
Yeah I disagree. I've said this before: if we were the majority in the PNW, neither WA nor OR would be Blue. This is the result of 30 years of Californians moving here and changing the politics and demographics of our communities.

Idaho doesn't have this problem, however, you can see the exact same thing happening there as well. The two most moved-to states in the country are Idaho and Arizona....and we saw what they did to Arizona. Some day, Idaho will go Blue too, and it won't be because gun owners are lazy....that's a BS narrative that is ignoring the reality that is right in front of us: changing demographics.

I will say, however, that I think SOME gun owners have become apathetic in recent years of the struggles with being gun owners with the discovery of overwhelming amounts of corruption with the NRA. That, in my opinion, was a huge blow to many of us, and not just to our pocketbooks. WLP is the worst thing to ever happen to that organization.
 
We don't outnumber them because they outnumber us in people who are involved. Gun owners in Oregon just are not involved. I'm speaking from my own experiences and outside this eco-chamber of facebook groups and forums where us die hard gun owners belong to the average gun owner in Oregon has ZERO CLUE and ignorant ! I walked into an FFL last April warning them of Measure 114 back when it was still under draft and they looked at me like i had tin foil hat and didn't care. There answer to me "oh they're always trying to pass that doesn't happen" and another individual said " i'll worry about it when it happens"
You think your average oregonian who owns a one gun, their home defense Glock has any idea what is happening ?
I know an National Gaurd officer that was interested in getting her first gun, spoke to her months ago and she not only had no idea but also didn't vote because she had no clue. You want to know who had a clue??? those who want to disarm us. So NO, they do outnumber us big time !!!
 
i submitted my testimony. I'll say it again.... they are far more organized than us. They are hungry to disarm us while gun owners are extremely complacent and not as involved.
Wrong, just outnumbered. Grossly outnumbered.
Remember, they only won with 0.7% of the majority. What I don't see is forum members attending functions and meetings about submitting testimony, writing letters, or becoming more aware of what's going on in the legislature. It's a small group of people that take the time to attend the meetings.
^^All good points above.

I lived in Arizona when it was solidly Red. At that time most of Phoenix were churchgoing Midwestern stock and Mesa was strongly LDS. People can roll their eyes all they want, but that voting block was reliable and consistently pro-2a. Later on people came from LA in droves and those were not so much. Idaho is currently in a battle for its soul. It is palpable when I visit there.

There is another demographic which for whatever reason people are afraid to talk about. Women are pushing off marriage and children later and later. Married women and single women vote differently. The woman you see at the park playing with a dog, 25 years ago was there playing with a child, and probably a homeowner too. I know there are a lot women Guntubers, and they do a great job, but I don't see many single women at the range. Maybe your daughters support the 2A, but there is a good chance her friends do not. I live here in the Capitol and I see who is at the marches. Who is wearing the t-shirts. So the next time your daughter's friends come over for barbecue, there is a chance to do a little outreach.

FWIW I submitted my testimony today, as I always do.
 
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^^All good points above.

I lived in Arizona when it was solidly Red. At that time most of Phoenix were churchgoing Midwestern stock and Mesa was strongly LDS. People can roll their eyes all they want, but that voting block was reliable and consistently pro-2a. Later on people came from LA in droves and those were not so much. Idaho is currently in a battle for its soul. It is palpable when I visit there.

There is another demographic which for whatever reason people are afraid to talk about. Women are pushing off marriage and children later and later. Married women and single women vote differently. The woman you see at the park playing with a dog, 25 years ago was there playing with a child, and probably a homeowner too. I know there are a lot women Guntubers, and they do a great job, but I don't see many single women at the range. Maybe your daughters support the 2A, but there is a good chance her friends do not. I live here in the Capitol and I see who is at the marches. Who is wearing the t-shirts. So the next time your daughter's friends come over for barbecue, there is a chance to do a little outreach.

FWIW I submitted my testimony today, as I always do.
I'm always encouraging women to pick up arms. Honestly if every woman in America carried we'd slash sexual assault numbers by more than half if not all. Criminals go after an easy prey.
 
Yeah I disagree. I've said this before: if we were the majority in the PNW, neither WA nor OR would be Blue. This is the result of 30 years of Californians moving here and changing the politics and demographics of our communities.
Oregonians have long de-valued education.
That created the space for folks with post-high-school degrees from MI, WI, OH, IN, PN, NJ, NY, VT, ME, etc, etc to move here and dominate politics
The fact is the better educated the populace of a state is, the more likely it is to vote 'blue'.
"Red" thrives on ignorance and fear and less educated easy-to-manipulate folks who welcome authority figures.
 
Oregonians have long de-valued education.
That created the space for folks with post-high-school degrees from MI, WI, OH, IN, PN, NJ, NY, VT, ME, etc, etc to move here and dominate politics
The fact is the better educated the populace of a state is, the more likely it is to vote 'blue'.
"Red" thrives on ignorance and fear and less educated easy-to-manipulate folks who welcome authority figures.
In your definition what exactly is "educated" because having a piece of paper from a college these days doesn't carry the same weight of "educated" in the terms of USING CRITICAL THINKING. If by educated you mean having gone to school to be indoctrinated, then yes I agree the more college indoctrinated you are the more you vote blue.
I'm a college graduate and went to college in my thirties a few years back and let me tell you, those kids are not educated. Walking around school campus with a hammer and sickle flag is not educated. I'm not sure what history books they read but that's not educated. That's called indoctrination. Your comment on "red" thrives on ignorance is totally a moronic statement to make. I mean dude you have "educated" kids that can't tell you what a man and women are. Can't define it! Think communism is a great thing. Sooooooo no..... no no no don't tell this immigrant who came here to this gorgeous beautiful country only to watch your "educated" destroy it because they are moronic and ignorant how it's the "red" that thrive of on ignorance. Moronic statement. Absolutely moronic.

Your "educated" dummies keep giving more of their liberties and civil rights to the govt. , continue to vote to give away their power, and seem to want to silence anyone who opposes them....... seems to me the more "educated" they are in today's America the dumber they are.
 
The fact is the better educated the populace of a state is, the more likely it is to vote 'blue'.
"Red" thrives on ignorance and fear and less educated easy-to-manipulate folks who welcome authority figures.
I'm sorry? Oregon ranks in bottom third for deaf education.... because it's State education and who has been running the Oregon Board? :rolleyes: but.... Texas of all places.. ranks in the top fifth for deaf education along with Indiana and Colorado (particularly Rocky Mountain Deaf School, a charter private school, not a State run school) yeah..... right.
 
In your definition what exactly is "educated" because having a piece of paper from a college these days doesn't carry the same weight of "educated" in the terms of USING CRITICAL THINKING. If by educated you mean having gone to school to be indoctrinated, then yes I agree the more college indoctrinated you are the more you vote blue.
I'm a college graduate and went to college in my thirties a few years back and let me tell you, those kids are not educated. Walking around school campus with a hammer and sickle flag is not educated. I'm not sure what history books they read but that's not educated. That's called indoctrination. Your comment on "red" thrives on ignorance is totally a moronic statement to make. I mean dude you have "educated" kids that can't tell you what a man and women are. Can't define it! Think communism is a great thing. Sooooooo no..... no no no don't tell this immigrant who came here to this gorgeous beautiful country only to watch your "educated" destroy it because they are moronic and ignorant how it's the "red" that thrive of on ignorance. Moronic statement. Absolutely moronic.

Your "educated" dummies keep giving more of their liberties and civil rights to the govt. , continue to vote to give away their power, and seem to want to silence anyone who opposes them....... seems to me the more "educated" they are in today's America the dumber they are.
I went back to college in my early 30s back in 2012 and I agree with you on the indoctrination vs education taking place. The young kids I went to school with were in bad shape imo. It actually was depressing knowing our country's future was in their hands.

I accidentally handed in a rough draft of an essay vs the finished product and still received better than 80%. When I seen all the red ink/corrections I spoke to the Professor about how I was surprised to still get a B. She showed me some of my colleagues' papers and holy moly were they bad.

Poor grammar, poor punctuation and incoherent rambling without staying on topic. I'd assume half didn't even try and the other half tried but just didn't have the cognitive skills necessary to write a proper essay. But still a lot of them finished with B.A.s and B.S.s and a few went on to get masters degrees...
 
Even worse than 114, Oregon also passed an initiative designed to prevent the minority party's legislators to stall or prevent legislation by refusing to show up and allow quorum. If they do so they are now prevented from running for re-election.

Yes, another successful "grass roots" effort to give a political party everything they want.

This allows the dominant party of gun grabbers to steamroll any legislation they want at any time.

The Tyranny of the Majority the Founding Fathers warned us about now dominates Oregon.

The only way to stop it is to change the dominant party, but they now have the controls to prevent that from happening.
Wasn't that a ballot initiative? If so my bet is more liberals were pissed off at Republican legislators stalling the climate change legislation than firearms legislation.
 
Wasn't that a ballot initiative? If so my bet is more liberals were pissed off at Republican legislators stalling the climate change legislation than firearms legislation.
Yes an initiative. The memory of the left (not to be confused with liberalism) seems very short. It wasn't all that long ago that then Senator Kate Brown used lack of quorum to stall Republican legislation.

It brings us to the place legislatively where the tyranny of the majority the founders warned us about is a reality, at least at the state level.

At some point the pendulum will swing the other way, and those who praised it will live to curse it.

The best political decisions are made with great effort against well reasoned opposition. It prevents the political equivalent of electrical overshoot and ring or even worse a positive feedback loop that destroys the stability of a system. This initiative weakens the loyal opposition's ability to temper popular yet poor legislation.

There is a reality they the means are more important than the ends, but fewer and fewer people have the capacity to understand that.
 
Yes. As a "liberal" who uses a brain I'm often perplexed at how short-sighted people with similar views are when sharpening a double-edged swords. A stable society requires all actors with any power to act in good faith, even if that means losing power. Or do unto others as you would have done unto you…
 
Yes. As a "liberal" who uses a brain I'm often perplexed at how short-sighted people with similar views are when sharpening a double-edged swords. A stable society requires all actors with any power to act in good faith, even if that means losing power. Or do unto others as you would have done unto you…
I was a "Liberal" till i moved back to Oregon after being away 13 years on active duty and NO thank you..... I don't want to be assoicated with that word any longer. The people on the right are the new "Liberals" and Oregon doesn't have Liberals, it has fascist Left, crazy deranged fascist Left... literally wearing all black like fascists do and destroying and silencing opposition. I urge people to stop calling them "liberal", because Liberal comes from the word Liberty and yeah at one point you had LIberals. The tides have changed....
 
I was a "Liberal" till i moved back to Oregon after being away 13 years on active duty and NO thank you..... I don't want to be assoicated with that word any longer. The people on the right are the new "Liberals" and Oregon doesn't have Liberals, it has fascist Left, crazy deranged fascist Left... literally wearing all black like fascists do and destroying and silencing opposition. I urge people to stop calling them "liberal", because Liberal comes from the word Liberty and yeah at one point you had LIberals. The tides have changed....
 
All things that who we call "Liberal" do not do or believe in .......
For that reason I try to avoid the term "liberal" when referring to them. Most of us on this board who consider themselves conservative are, in fact, liberal by definition.Those terms are not mutually exclusive. I prefer the term "leftist" instead when talking about the craziness happening in Oregon.

That's as far as I will go in this thread. Politics not related to firearms is prohibited on the forum for good reason, and I do not want to see this thread closed.
 
For that reason I try to avoid the term "liberal" when referring to them. Most of us on this board who consider themselves conservative are, in fact, liberal by definition.Those terms are not mutually exclusive. I prefer the term "leftist" instead when talking about the craziness happening in Oregon.

That's as far as I will go in this thread. Politics not related to firearms is prohibited on the forum for good reason, and I do not want to see this thread closed.
I agree with all you just said and sorry to turn it political.... but as gun owners the reality is there's only one party taking our rights away. that's just factual at the end of the day when these bills pass in Oregon and we are all effected there's a specific entity that is who is doing all this
 

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