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Poll: New Indoor Shooting Range
- Thread Starter Maru
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- Thread Starter
- #82
Thank you so much for the feedback. The range will be priced separately from the other features.
As for the rifle distance, we are planning for 100 yard indoor rifle and during the months of Sep/Oct we would like to offer free time on the rifle range to hunters who show us their hunting tags. This is so the hunters can site in before hunting
I've purchased the marketing research from NSSF and am waiting for the written word.
As for the restaurant, I will be approaching local microbrews in Portland to ask if they'd like to lease back the space from us. I haven't starting researching microbrews as of yet, it's too early in the process. But the overall goal is to get a well liked, well established business from downtown to set up shop on this side of the hill.
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The entrance fee, is only one method indoor ranges make $$$$$.
Some will outright ban any ammo brought Into their range: they state that for "insurance reasons", as they can verify what they Sell (at greatly increased values) ... Where as a customer might bring in "poorly reloaded ammo"
So that is one restriction... Another, you "must" shoot Only ~green~ Ammo, no lead, or fully jacketed ammo... Another restricted concept...
There may be others, those are two... And they are reasons I choose out door shooting!!! If you Hunt in the Great PacificNorthWET your zero should be at Altitude, at Tempeture .... in the weather you are hunting in... Should there be a brand new rifle... Zeroing in an indoor facility would only be a start....
philip...
Some will outright ban any ammo brought Into their range: they state that for "insurance reasons", as they can verify what they Sell (at greatly increased values) ... Where as a customer might bring in "poorly reloaded ammo"
So that is one restriction... Another, you "must" shoot Only ~green~ Ammo, no lead, or fully jacketed ammo... Another restricted concept...
There may be others, those are two... And they are reasons I choose out door shooting!!! If you Hunt in the Great PacificNorthWET your zero should be at Altitude, at Tempeture .... in the weather you are hunting in... Should there be a brand new rifle... Zeroing in an indoor facility would only be a start....
philip...
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as said above, most indoor ranges require that you purchase ammo while there and then they keep the brass as well.
It can get worse too. My experience at Beavercreek armory, is that they sold reloaded ammo (that they do themselves I believe) as if it was new ammo reusing boxes at retail new ammo prices. I was a brand new shooter so did not know any better (and why I will never go back). The reloaded ammo that day caused a number of FTE in a brand new Springfield. I sent in back to Springfield thinking it was an issue with the gun only to be told it was fine. It has not had a problem since.
also some ammo that the ranges require you shoot, is what ever they can get a hold of. Some of us have firearms that have strict ammo requirements (brands or quality). One of mine will not warranty the gun if reloads are used in it.
I understand why a range would want to sell ammo. Its another income source.
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If the right investment is made in the ranges then there will be no technical reasons to require different ammo.
Then it's only A case of not having false pretense reasons to not allow outside ammo.
I will never shoot anywhere that I can't use my own ammo. And not because I have some fancy loads, far from it, I either run normal loads or factory but I will not pay someone else's prices for ammo I already own.
Then it's only A case of not having false pretense reasons to not allow outside ammo.
I will never shoot anywhere that I can't use my own ammo. And not because I have some fancy loads, far from it, I either run normal loads or factory but I will not pay someone else's prices for ammo I already own.
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I shoot at Tri-County Gun Cub and love it. It's rural. No frills. Separate covered outdoor ranges for handgun, long rifles, shotgun, black powder & archery. Many law enforcement officers from the area shoot there which always made me proud. We have a rustic club house for classes and meetings. There is one indoor range for .22 that I've never used but I know the youth shooting groups use it often. There is a lot of volunteer work keeping the place looking good too. We have volunteer Range Masters at most positions for safety. The annual fees are less than the Frisco initiation fee. Our membership is full with a substantial waiting list. I really like your business idea but suspect Oregonians are, as a general rule, too frugal to pay for a premium place to shoot. IMHO.
There's a place in the world of shooters for a nice, clean indoor range with amenities.
Shooters with $2-5,000 1911's and other custom collectables aren't going into the woods to plink.
Your demographic is narrow but there's a strata of the industry that will participate.
Try the custom and collector car community for instance. Lots of shooters and money looking for winter activity. Les Baer has a couple semi-customs named for muscle cars.
Not so many shooters in the golf circle.
Scottsdale Gun Club has a good retail with range and a more elite members section. Might be a reasonable approach.
Remember nobody needed A/C or power windows in their car...until they tried it.
Shooters with $2-5,000 1911's and other custom collectables aren't going into the woods to plink.
Your demographic is narrow but there's a strata of the industry that will participate.
Try the custom and collector car community for instance. Lots of shooters and money looking for winter activity. Les Baer has a couple semi-customs named for muscle cars.
Not so many shooters in the golf circle.
Scottsdale Gun Club has a good retail with range and a more elite members section. Might be a reasonable approach.
Remember nobody needed A/C or power windows in their car...until they tried it.
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I have been away from the board for a while, but I am very supportive of this development.
Having said that I would offer the following observations:
1) Make sure that the Restaurant, Lounge and associated operations can survive and eventually be profitable as their own "cost center" and not be a possible hindrance to the range operations.
2) Have a back up plan for what to use the facility for if Oregon becomes too anti-gun to continue operations.
I hate saying that, but I am aware of an upscale range in another country where this happened. The owner's foresight into having the facility readily convertible into a high security warehouse facility saved his financial life in the end.
3) Locker Rental and Secure Storage: A "mini-vault" locker that a member could rent on a yearly basis would go over well, in my opinion. Secure storage to established federal government contractor standards would allow you the ability to host training for state and federal law enforcement and military if you wished.
4) Increase the number of rifle caliber firing positions. For law enforcement contract use and "black rifles."
5) Consider "tiered membership" where those who don't want to spend as much can still participate.
6) Consider an outdoor range as well. They can be designed to contain the vast majority of noise generated.
The outdoor range could be it's own LLC and cost center too. This could be tackled later, just leave room on the 18 acre property for it to be built if you should want to do so.
There is a real lack of venues in this area who can host training classes which can be profitable and generate huge good will in the shooting community. This separate facility could become a real star on its own.
7) Be careful about any evening being a permanently designated "Ladies Night." It could tie up the facility in a money losing commitment for little in return.
8) Have enough training and conference room space to take advantage of that which has already been discussed. It can be multi-use space of course to keep needless costs and duplication down.
9) Become politically active in the community, not just second amendment and gun related either.
Get to know those who are in charge and who make and execute policy. If you are friendly with them all the better. Invest in good relationships with neighbors.
10) Think strategically, with the goal of being seen as a real community asset. If you let the Boy Scouts train for free, while you donate a meeting room for teaching CPR by the Red Cross and the same day the newspaper has a short piece about how much food the facility collected for the local food bank, etc it is much harder to "demonize" the "evil gun range." This could go so far as inviting local musicians and bands to perform in the lounge/restaurant. The Pro-Shop could sell their CDs, etc. Some could also be encouraged to write and perform about pro-gun and pro-freedom themes, etc. Endless possibilities here.
Feel free to contact me via PM if you want to discuss anything further or brainstorm.
Cheers.
Having said that I would offer the following observations:
1) Make sure that the Restaurant, Lounge and associated operations can survive and eventually be profitable as their own "cost center" and not be a possible hindrance to the range operations.
2) Have a back up plan for what to use the facility for if Oregon becomes too anti-gun to continue operations.
I hate saying that, but I am aware of an upscale range in another country where this happened. The owner's foresight into having the facility readily convertible into a high security warehouse facility saved his financial life in the end.
3) Locker Rental and Secure Storage: A "mini-vault" locker that a member could rent on a yearly basis would go over well, in my opinion. Secure storage to established federal government contractor standards would allow you the ability to host training for state and federal law enforcement and military if you wished.
4) Increase the number of rifle caliber firing positions. For law enforcement contract use and "black rifles."
5) Consider "tiered membership" where those who don't want to spend as much can still participate.
6) Consider an outdoor range as well. They can be designed to contain the vast majority of noise generated.
The outdoor range could be it's own LLC and cost center too. This could be tackled later, just leave room on the 18 acre property for it to be built if you should want to do so.
There is a real lack of venues in this area who can host training classes which can be profitable and generate huge good will in the shooting community. This separate facility could become a real star on its own.
7) Be careful about any evening being a permanently designated "Ladies Night." It could tie up the facility in a money losing commitment for little in return.
8) Have enough training and conference room space to take advantage of that which has already been discussed. It can be multi-use space of course to keep needless costs and duplication down.
9) Become politically active in the community, not just second amendment and gun related either.
Get to know those who are in charge and who make and execute policy. If you are friendly with them all the better. Invest in good relationships with neighbors.
10) Think strategically, with the goal of being seen as a real community asset. If you let the Boy Scouts train for free, while you donate a meeting room for teaching CPR by the Red Cross and the same day the newspaper has a short piece about how much food the facility collected for the local food bank, etc it is much harder to "demonize" the "evil gun range." This could go so far as inviting local musicians and bands to perform in the lounge/restaurant. The Pro-Shop could sell their CDs, etc. Some could also be encouraged to write and perform about pro-gun and pro-freedom themes, etc. Endless possibilities here.
Feel free to contact me via PM if you want to discuss anything further or brainstorm.
Cheers.
If you haven't already, I'd suggest that you attend a NSSF Lead Management & OSHA Compliance Workshop (they also get into EPA requirements). They focus on indoor ranges. There in part, they will suggest that the range operator must have an MSDS for all ammo fired at the range. If that is true (I'm not so sure), it is a reason for an indoor range to restrict ammo to what they sell.
Microbrews and guns? Uh...yeah. You can go up into the woods to get that experience!
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I'm very turned off by the whole "premium" concept; nice, clean, well lit, of course yes, but any sense of Portland style hoity-toity-ness and it quickly becomes a HELL NO!
That said, the west side is very much in need of a formal range, IF reasonably priced and run intelligently, this sounds like something I'd use. If nothing else it would make it easier to get my coworkers to come give shooting a try, but if it's expensive and run like a yuppy destination, I wouldn't anticipate many return customers.
Also, two other important factors to keep in mind;
1.) Your competition is the Tillamook and Clatsop State Forests.
2.) Intel people and silicon forest people in general, tend to be very good at cost benefit analysis.
So while the NSSF might say the average pay in the area would support a certain price structure, don't count on that actually being the case.
That said, the west side is very much in need of a formal range, IF reasonably priced and run intelligently, this sounds like something I'd use. If nothing else it would make it easier to get my coworkers to come give shooting a try, but if it's expensive and run like a yuppy destination, I wouldn't anticipate many return customers.
Also, two other important factors to keep in mind;
1.) Your competition is the Tillamook and Clatsop State Forests.
2.) Intel people and silicon forest people in general, tend to be very good at cost benefit analysis.
So while the NSSF might say the average pay in the area would support a certain price structure, don't count on that actually being the case.
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Hi Maru,
I really like your concept! I'm all for it and believe there is a need for this type of facility. I sent you an IM/started a conversation with my comments and suggestions.
I really like your concept! I'm all for it and believe there is a need for this type of facility. I sent you an IM/started a conversation with my comments and suggestions.
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currently the waiting list to get to the new member classes is 12-14 months ... at least according to those new members who came through the class on Saturday.
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I came from the SF Bay area about 4 years ago and discovered that Oregon has few public ranges where a shooter can pay by the hour of day without a membership commitment. Even with the SF Bay area politics there were 5 ranges within 35 miles of my house and all had public day use.
For my part, I would look at a range with a reasonable cost to take my daughter rather than having her drive all the way to Salem and then travel with me to Shedd to the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club.
The ARPC, by the way is $143 annual membership or $68 with 12 hours volunteer time (gun show, machine gun shoot, range cleanup), accessible with gate card and no daily cost or cost to guests.
For my part, I would look at a range with a reasonable cost to take my daughter rather than having her drive all the way to Salem and then travel with me to Shedd to the Albany Rifle and Pistol Club.
The ARPC, by the way is $143 annual membership or $68 with 12 hours volunteer time (gun show, machine gun shoot, range cleanup), accessible with gate card and no daily cost or cost to guests.
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That's a country club, not a range! IMO anyway. They nearly have more retail space than shooting space! Look, I've been to stores with ranges before. They're usually quite expensive.
I belong to a gun club, one of the 1940's NRA sponsored ones in fact (if you can get NRA sponsorship, you are GOLDEN --keeps my dues down to about $100 a year and I have pistol/rimfire to 50y, rifle to 220m with steels (600 when they close down the parking lot to extend the range). Our only real "rule" in the charter I think says that we have to provide training and shooting materials to young shooters (most of us would do that if NRA didn't get involved, we love the tykes, they have their own safe with their shooting vests and gloves and gear and if they can't afford rifles, we provide those).
And as a perk, we just got concrete barricades installed over the rifle lanes and a nice new shooting line with moveable benches and screens and bags etc.
The shotgun range is pretty nice too, but I haven't used it. It's at least as nice as the one at Ft. Lewis except there are always free clays to be had there (it's kind of an unspoken rule to leave your extra clays behind in one of the buildings).
Then we also have the "pits" for IPSC and IDPA --this is the only place where rapid fire is allowed or magazines in excess of 8 rounds (THAT stupid rule was put in place when the range opened as the M1 was tops then; now the reasoning is that some people can't control the weapon right or else it'll slam fire and they'll lose control).
A handful of people are exempt from these rules, or rather, they're just not enforced for some of us. It generally takes showing up the old timers and not breaking any range rules; being a capable range officer in absence of one helps too. As a former SDM instructor, I'm fully capable on a range and it's where I feel my most comfortable to be honest.
I have 3 ranges close by, one is R15 at Ft. Lewis which I think doesn't cost me anything. Or else it's a discount. I don't go anymore. It goes to 300m and you can do whatever you like as long as you don't shoot over the berm or past the flags or at steels that are too close. It's always packed first thing in the morning though. I wish they'd open up R20-22 or one of the impact areas (impact areas, while dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, make the BEST UKD ranges on Earth). TSSC is the other one and I only went once years ago and didn't like it. I hear the range officer is the type that'll beg for a fist to face so I just stay away.
Then there's always BLM land and Yukima. I used Google Earth to find a range for my .50BMG out near Hanford site, it's a good safe 3 mile range with a gentle slope, but depending on winds you may want to take a counter. You won't find anyone out there to bother you.
Yeah, if this range I belong to wasn't just under $100 a year, nearly within walking distance and suitable for most of my plinking, I'd only use BLM land. I can drive out near Rainier, on one side is the park, the other is BLM and there are very few rules out there.
If you are in to long range shooting, what some of us do is to set up steels on one ridge and set up the firing line on another. Then the entire range is safely elevated a few thousand feet and you only have a firing line and short impact zone to worry about, not a one mile range where a hiker can magically appear (and most likely set up a tent WHILE you are firing!).
BTW, they don't open ranges anymore due to lawsuits and costs. If it wasn't for our NRA charter, I'm sure ours would have been shut down. When it was built, it was on the edge of town with woods all around. Now it's surrounded with subdivisions and grocery stores --it's in the middle of town basically.
Some folks get together with a guy that has land and they all pitch in together and build a range on his land. Or simply shoot on somoene's land. Those work out really well provided the land won't ever be sold and you get everyone on a contract.
Be safe, it's idiots that are responsible for most range closures.
I belong to a gun club, one of the 1940's NRA sponsored ones in fact (if you can get NRA sponsorship, you are GOLDEN --keeps my dues down to about $100 a year and I have pistol/rimfire to 50y, rifle to 220m with steels (600 when they close down the parking lot to extend the range). Our only real "rule" in the charter I think says that we have to provide training and shooting materials to young shooters (most of us would do that if NRA didn't get involved, we love the tykes, they have their own safe with their shooting vests and gloves and gear and if they can't afford rifles, we provide those).
And as a perk, we just got concrete barricades installed over the rifle lanes and a nice new shooting line with moveable benches and screens and bags etc.
The shotgun range is pretty nice too, but I haven't used it. It's at least as nice as the one at Ft. Lewis except there are always free clays to be had there (it's kind of an unspoken rule to leave your extra clays behind in one of the buildings).
Then we also have the "pits" for IPSC and IDPA --this is the only place where rapid fire is allowed or magazines in excess of 8 rounds (THAT stupid rule was put in place when the range opened as the M1 was tops then; now the reasoning is that some people can't control the weapon right or else it'll slam fire and they'll lose control).
A handful of people are exempt from these rules, or rather, they're just not enforced for some of us. It generally takes showing up the old timers and not breaking any range rules; being a capable range officer in absence of one helps too. As a former SDM instructor, I'm fully capable on a range and it's where I feel my most comfortable to be honest.
I have 3 ranges close by, one is R15 at Ft. Lewis which I think doesn't cost me anything. Or else it's a discount. I don't go anymore. It goes to 300m and you can do whatever you like as long as you don't shoot over the berm or past the flags or at steels that are too close. It's always packed first thing in the morning though. I wish they'd open up R20-22 or one of the impact areas (impact areas, while dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, make the BEST UKD ranges on Earth). TSSC is the other one and I only went once years ago and didn't like it. I hear the range officer is the type that'll beg for a fist to face so I just stay away.
Then there's always BLM land and Yukima. I used Google Earth to find a range for my .50BMG out near Hanford site, it's a good safe 3 mile range with a gentle slope, but depending on winds you may want to take a counter. You won't find anyone out there to bother you.
Yeah, if this range I belong to wasn't just under $100 a year, nearly within walking distance and suitable for most of my plinking, I'd only use BLM land. I can drive out near Rainier, on one side is the park, the other is BLM and there are very few rules out there.
If you are in to long range shooting, what some of us do is to set up steels on one ridge and set up the firing line on another. Then the entire range is safely elevated a few thousand feet and you only have a firing line and short impact zone to worry about, not a one mile range where a hiker can magically appear (and most likely set up a tent WHILE you are firing!).
BTW, they don't open ranges anymore due to lawsuits and costs. If it wasn't for our NRA charter, I'm sure ours would have been shut down. When it was built, it was on the edge of town with woods all around. Now it's surrounded with subdivisions and grocery stores --it's in the middle of town basically.
Some folks get together with a guy that has land and they all pitch in together and build a range on his land. Or simply shoot on somoene's land. Those work out really well provided the land won't ever be sold and you get everyone on a contract.
Be safe, it's idiots that are responsible for most range closures.
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How nice that of ne of facility would be. My wife and I would like to put our names on a waiting list for membership.
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Way too expensive for the average shooting enthusiast. Go to Trigger Time's web site for an excellent state of the art indoor range (3 years old BTW) in Longmont Colorado. triggertimegunclub.com. One time membership of about $375, and $34 dollars per month and shoot all you want. There is a waiting list. Eleven 25 yard pistol ranges and 7 100 yard rifle ranges. A classy place and run by very experienced nice folks.
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No one has stated a price yet. People are reading waaaay too hard into details of the examples given.
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