Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

New cartrige, meet old cartridge...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Phather, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. Phather

    Phather South SnoCo Active Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    91
    I finally got to the range today after a months long shooting drought. As I was leaving my house I realized I had chosen both the first rifle cartridge adopted by the military (.45-70), and the latest rifle cartridge adopted by the military (5.56x45). That .45-70 sure beat the AR for conversations at the range. :)
     
  2. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    498
    Pretty sure the Spencer rimfire and the 50-70 Allin conversion centerfire round were standard
    military issue a bit before the 45-70. Heck---even the Henry was issued to Union troops.



    Spencer Repeating Rifle Lever Action 56-56 Spencer 1860-1873
    Henry Repeating Rifle Lever Action .44 Henry 1862-1873
    Springfield Model 1865 Breech-loading .58 Musket Rimfire 1865-1867
    Springfield Model 1866 Breech-loading .50-70 Government 1866-1873
    Springfield Model 1868 Breech-loading .50-70 Government 1869-1873
     
    Dean Armer and Flopsweat like this.
  3. Phather

    Phather South SnoCo Active Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    91
    I stand corrected. :)
     
    salmonriverjohn likes this.
  4. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    1,855
    The spencer and the henry both pre-dated the .45-70, however neither were issued in great numbers, the spencer saw more action on the side of the confederacy. The .50-70 was a transition between the .58 musket, and the later .45-70 cartridge.
     
    blackadder likes this.
  5. ogre

    ogre Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,754
    Likes Received:
    1,291
    Ummmmmm……..the Spencer company sold only to the union and did not sell to the confederacy. The confederacy obtained it's Spencers by capture.

    When the wartime contracts were completed Spencer had delivered 64,685 carbines alone to US forces.

    A total of 11,471 Spencer rifles were manufactured and armed the US Army and US Navy as well as state militias during the war.
     
  6. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,379
    Likes Received:
    7,593
    Sooo,he would be correct in saying the 45-70 was the first caliber for the "united" states army????
    Now all y'alls peed on his parade:rolleyes:
     
    orygun likes this.
  7. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    498
    45-70 came out in 1873. Civil war ended in 1865, so I would suppose the "United" states army was
    in existence from 1865 to 1873? If that's true----then no, the 45-70 wasn't first.
     
  8. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    2,532

    Well, the Spencer and Henry rounds were only rimfire cartridges. That puts them into a different category, in my view.

    The .50-70 is the only earlier centerfire cartridge.

    .
     
    orygun likes this.
  9. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    286
    The 50-70 was adapted and used from 1866 to 1873 when it was replaced by the .45 2 1/8th or 45-70-405 as it was referred to back then. We now call it the 45-70. The 50-70 replaced the .58 Rimfire.

    The Calvary were issued the 45-55 because of the lighter carbines and the full size rifles carried by the infantry used the 45-70 in full power loads.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2015
    BroncoFan likes this.
  10. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,682
    Likes Received:
    2,532
    That is totally bogus and false information. 95,000 Spencer rifles were purchased by the Union Army during the Civil War.

    And the Confederates only captured less than two thousand of them. And they proved pretty useless to them, as the Confederacy had no way to manufacture more ammunition for them.

    .
     
    AMProducts and ogre like this.
  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    1,855
    You're right! I will have to correct the person who gave me that narrative next time I see him.
     
  12. evltwn

    evltwn Gold Hill Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    338
    Thanks for the history lesson, fellas...even an old geez like me learns something everyday in here.
     
  13. CHLChris

    CHLChris Portland Metro East Love me some guns! Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Yes, how dare you make such a mistake! You are keeping the caliber wonks from appreciating your clever story. "Second center-fire cartridge adopted by the United States, meet the latest cartridge ever adopted," just doesn't have the same story-telling power. I like your version better, Phather.

    BTW, lest you caliber wonks feel I am making fun of you, I actually aspire to your level of wonkish knowledge.
     
  14. Gaucho Gringo

    Gaucho Gringo Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    275
    To OP. The 45-70 makes big boom and if black powder lots of smoke. The 5.56x45 makes a high pitched crack and no smoke. The 45-70 will win hands down on its charms every time and will draw people at the range like flies to honey.
     
  15. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    5,773
    Likes Received:
    4,949


    Hasn't the .338 Lapua been adopted since the 5.56mm?
     
  16. Phather

    Phather South SnoCo Active Member

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    91
    No doubt! Every time I go to the range at least one person is shooting an AR variant while lever guns in general, let alone big bore versions, are pretty rare. That first shot usually draws several heads. :D
     
  17. CHLChris

    CHLChris Portland Metro East Love me some guns! Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,818
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    So does an AR with a compensator or brake...:eek:
     
  18. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,168
    Likes Received:
    4,246
    Was out at Clark sighting in some guns and let my friends son try my guide Marlin 45/70. It had the HSM 430 grain +P's in it. The gun jumped a good foot and he went even higher, then turns to me and say's " that kinda hurt".
     
  19. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    286
    Try a 535 grain lead Creedmore bullet over 70 grains of of compressed Goex FFG that turns heads and makes a metal gong really clang. Great head turner and shoulder wicker!
     
    edslhead likes this.
  20. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,168
    Likes Received:
    4,246
    I think I'll pass. Cant shoot more than 5 or 6 of these and I'm done.