New AR owner Question

Discussion in 'Gear & Accessories' started by 9mmMike, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. 9mmMike

    Gladstone, OR
    Active Member

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    I'm looking at optics/sight options for my new M4 Carbine with A2 front sight and A3 upper. I know if I put a magnified scope on it, I won't see the front sight at all, but what about with red dots or holo sights. Would the A2 front sight be in the line of sight? I can't decide on a 1-4 or an EO or Aimpoint. I have a 2-7 Leupold on my customized Mini that I love and is a 2 eye aimer at 2x, but want to maybe go with a more close range sight. Also, will any BUIS work with my A2 front sight, or do they only work with another BUIS up front.
    I'm also wanting to go tritium on the front A2.

    Thanks for any info you can provide.
  2. wichaka

    Wa State
    Well-Known Member

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    If you set the optic up a bit, it'll be in the lower 1/3 of the glass...and won't hardly show until you look for it.

    I run an Aimpoint ML3 and never notice it. I also use a cantilever optic mount, this allows the option of a magnifier to be mounted behind it.

    As for a BUIS, I use a Troy Battle rear sight. They will work with both front folding, and standard sights as well.

  3. smonk


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    Wow! Nice rifle and comments from someone who knows what he's talking about!
  4. Gunner3456

    Well-Known Member

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    They also make almost any type of mount in what's called a see-through mount. They do elevate the scope to leave some kind of tunnel under it, but it is an option. Here are two styles among many.

    Note that the top one also offsets the scope forward.


  5. the4thshake

    Active Member

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    :thumbdown::thumbdown:There is plenty of airsoft stuff out there.:thumbdown::thumbdown:

    They say a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.:thumbup:

    I find it silly to think someone is willing to spend close to a grand for a gun but only willing to fork out the bare minimum for a mount.:huh:
  6. techieguy

    techieguy Well-Known Member

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    You might want to try a Aimpoint with a magnifier behind it (on a flip mount like LaRue tactical) this way you get the benefit of magnification (2.5-4x depending on whose magnifier you purchase) and the speed of a red dot for 100 yard or less shots. Pictured here is LaRue 'Po boy Special' (their flip mount with a 2x magnifier from a anti-tank rocket launcher with the recital removed. An in-expensive way to get started...

    The LaRue flip mount will clear the Troy folding rear sight in the store position
  7. newt


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    Wow, you're looking at a lot of options.

    1) Magnified vs non: Eotech: I've used both extensively. Eotechs have their fans, and the new series may fix their battery box problems. I've used them a bit in formal training. The new XPS is promising, but battery life is relatively short. I'll wait to see if the battery box issues are wrung out. For plinking, great. For heavy use, maybe, maybe not. Some people swear by them, but I think you'll find most heavy users and competitors move to magnified or aimpoints.

    2) Non-magnified: Aimpoint: I've used all of the CCO-M68, and currently have a CompM4s (current M68) on my Colt 6920. For these, ADM or Larue mounts are going to be the best. You can get absolute co-witness (dot lined up with irons) or 1/3 cowitness. With an aimpoint, I typically like lower 1/3 cowitness from LaRue combined with an F-marked standard front sight base. The FSB and the optic are indestructable, and at any time the optic goes down, I'm not fiddling up front. With these, if you want a rear magnifier then get a folding site like Troy (expensive) or Magpul MBUS (good, but inexpensive). If not, you might consider a rail mounted fixed read like Larue or LMT. Again, no fiddling. I've also used the aimpoint 3x magnifier in the levered larue mount here. It's excellent kit, but I found I almost never used it. For magnification, it's OK, but it's not as forgiving in relief of field of view as a 1-4 optic or a ACOG. I do like the 2MOA optics, but that's all preference. I have about 20:15 vision at 35, so it works well for me.

    I have the most formal training, rounds, competition, and working time with Aimpoints. They're bulletproof, have no distortion, 50,000 hour battery life, and almost never break.

    3) ACOGS and fixed magnification: Unless you train extensively with these, you may have short range issues. A lot of heavy users still have problems with non-dominant eye taking over when using BAC at short range. Other than that, they are AWESOME for all applications, but not quite as fast or as easy for short. You need more training time short than an aimpoint, and long to understand the BDC points well. You'll need a folding rear for something like this. I like the ACOGS but switched to accupoints...

    4) 1-4 optics: I've used S&B Short Dots ($2500) and Accupoints. The new Accupoint TR24 is what I'm using as a GP optic. It's 1-4x with true 1x. Excellent FOV and relief. I don't feel my eye getting sucked in to the optic with two eyes open. The edges of the glass are excellent, 1x is easy and quick to acquire and shoot (faster than ACOG up close for me with timer, slower than aimpoint, but not much). Larue LT104 mount keeps it low. Very fast and clear, good for close up and long. The down side is no BDC, but I generally compete or train out to 250-300, and it's perfect for that. Like most FO/Tritium optics, I get some washout when shooting from dark to light, so I got the German number 4 reticle, and that obviates the issue. For longer, you might want ACOG. S&B: Amazing optic, very expensive, batteries don't last that long, heavy as the Queens Empire.

    Edited to add: On last thing on variable power: Try to find someone who will let you look through them with irons. On magnification with an FSB or front sight up, ACOGS, S&B's, and Accupoints don't bother me. on 1x, with the S&B and Accupoint, my eye draws too much to the FSB. So for those I like low profile up front. Other people I know, this doesn't bother them at all.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  8. eldbillbo

    New world samurai and a redneck none the less

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    Hello Mike

    I have a extra front PRI flip up sight for sale in the classifieds for $145

    i love these things as they flip out of the way but the housing is far better than stock slight blade as they have a round housing as found on HK type weapon for fast target sighting as you just line the rear round opening with the front opening then position the blade it just simply clamps on so it will fit any .75" barrel if your interrested i have the tools to remove your old sight base as well if you don't

    I use my others with arsm 40 flip ups
  9. tttihomir

    New Member

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    Hello Gunner3456, after combing the Web for weeks in search of special kind of sight mount I found your posting with a picture of the exact kind of see-through mount that I need! Could you help me with some info on who makes it? Thank you for you time!
  10. spengo

    Well-Known Member

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    Anything to get over the AR-15 irons would have to be super high, I'd rather get a regular height scope mount with a QD lever if I need to use the irons. Terrible cheek weld is terrible.
  11. Humpyslayer


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    I use to be all about front flip sights and found them to be a hassel (if battery died on my eotech) and they also seemed like a weak point to break/bend, get caught in stuff like brush. Decided all my rifles now need to have standard front sight bases. They're tough (only way you might break or bend one is drop your rifle out of a helicopter roping down or a tank runs it over) and I think they look less hokie.

    That being said, both my optic equipped AR's have standard front post. With my Eotech, it cowitnesses and I like it that way. Find it natural and that I pick up the reticle faster in bright light (use the dark black front sight as a reference point when I have good cheek weld). My other rifle has a Accupoint TR24 with the german #4 reticle and yellow dot. One 1x I can see a little of the front post at the bottom of the scope and I hardly notice it unless I really take the time to focus. On 4x it totally disappears.

    To each their own. You can take it to a gunsmith and have him put on a front flip/gas block set up if you end up hating seeing it in you optic. No such thing as the "perfect setup". Just gotta go with what makes you happy/comfortable/confident.

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