Netflix Waco Show

[svxr8dr]

The second shot intended for Kevin Harris, was proved to not having met the criteria for use of deadly force because, although armed, he was running for cover. Vicki Weaver was unfortunately hit while standing behind the doorway to which Harris was running into the house.

I wouldn't call that an execution as I don't believe Lon Horiuchi intended to kill Vicky Weaver. He definitely should have been convicted of manslaughter though, which he was not.

When he pulled the trigger they were all operating on illegal shoot to kill ROE.

 

[Melmelhunter]

I binge watched it the other day... I was a teenager and remember watching it on the news back then thinking they were a bunch of wack jobs that drank the Kool aid but this show gave me a different perspective than I remember back then. That's for sure. I'm sure being older and wiser helped to see the whole picture now.

 

[leadcounsel]

The murder of the Davidians and the murders at Ruby Ridge are extremely dark days and black eyes on our nation, and led to the collateral OKC bombing.

This requires a re-visitation of the Clinton Administration.

I was a liberal pro-Clinton college student during these events and didn't critically think or understand. But years later, I would study and learn the horrible government over-reach and outright corruption and lies of the Clinton administration (over this and many other dastardly acts).

The Clinton admin was the worst in modern times bar none. The dude murdered Americans which directly created domestic terrorism in response, ignored foreign and domestic terrorism (the '93 WTC truck bomb, the USS Cole, the Kenya Embassy bombing, and others, all by Al Queda), cheated on his wife in the oval office with a employee 1/2 his age and adamantly expressly lied under oath, and a dismantling of the military and CIA that allowed for and led to the 9/11/01 attacks which had begun being planned in '98 and he had several chances to kill Osama Bin Laden and didn't. And the dude allegedly raped and sexually assaulted a string of women that he paid off in settlements with... And let's not forget about the national "Assault Weapons Ban" which was the biggest and worst act of gun control in modern times, and we still have remnants and expansions of it in the nation. This is the danger of electing a EVIL, self centered, bloody criminally inept moron to office. How he wasn't kicked out of office remains a mystery. Oh, and he also gave us the two worst SCOTUS judges in modern times that still haunt us.

As to Waco, it was a straight up murder fest. When the government claims it's there to save lives and help, and then murders scores of people, there's something amiss. That FLIR video and the tanks and forced 2nd story entry attempts are all proof they were there to execute people. And over what? Nothing alleged justified the full forced invasion.

So, in the 90s, the media simply lied and painted these people as loonies. The truth is the government was in the wrong.

Edited to add: After Clinton I swore off the Dem party and never voted for another Dem and never will. I saw their level of depravity and corruption.

 

[TorchRedTulsan]

Hadn't seen this before. Watched it tonight. Thanks for sharing

I was a freshman in college in 1995 and I remember the Branch Davidians were depicted in the press as whacko/kooks. Most of us kids eagerly accepted this explanation, as we wanted any excuse to make fun of someone (this was the cynical 90's). We were told Koresh thought he was Jesus, that he was a child molester

It is my understanding the OKC bombing was (at least in part) retaliation for Waco.

Same here. I lived in Oklahoma during Waco and OKC. I vividly remember watching Waco on TV and where I was when we got the news about the OKC bombing. I saw the Murray less than a week later when all the wires and office equipment were still dangling from the hole and the major news outlets were still broadcasting from the site. It's one of those things I'll never forget. It wasn't until years later that I actual did my own reading (down the rabbit trail of reading about Ruby Ridge and Timothy McVeigh) and learned more of the truth

You can also see Chuck Schumer during the congressional hearings.

It made my blood boil every time he opened his arrogant, condescending mouth and was proven wrong with every point he tried to bully the witnesses with.

a Jesus complex

I don't believe this to be true. He said himself that he wasn't Jesus, that these weren't "his people", and that he was essentially just teaching them the Bible like any pastor does. Do I agree with him? No. Do I think his actions were in line with my view of God and the Bible? No. Is that deserving of "Play stupid games" and we'll murder you, intentionally gas and incinerate every man, woman, and child near you and then lie about it with no accountability? Also no.

Watching the video drove home a near helpless feeling of, when the government decides something, facts and truth don't matter. Numerous instances of people who believe what a lot of us believe about the constitution, our rights, the government, etc. Several here talk about how our forefathers would be stacking bodies by now, but these people or groups who tried to stand up were violently put down, made out to be the crazy extremist bad guys, and yet we all still swallow the pill even when we learn about the lies, coverups, and lack of accountability afterwards

 

[leadcounsel]

Watching the video drove home a near helpless feeling of, when the government decides something, facts and truth don't matter. Numerous instances of people who believe what a lot of us believe about the constitution, our rights, the government, etc. Several here talk about how our forefathers would be stacking bodies by now, but these people or groups who tried to stand up were violently put down, made out to be the crazy extremist bad guys, and yet we all still swallow the pill even when we learn about the lies, coverups, and lack of accountability afterwards

And this is the real tragedy. The narratives are formed and written by those in control of the government and media. Information is the real power and those who control the spread of information and narrative can paint any picture they want.

I'll use myself as an example. As a twenty-something, I didn't even hear about Ruby Ridge and my opinion of Waco was that they were a bunch of "wackos" who needed the heavy hand of government. That was the narrative and I believed it. It was a big, fat lie and buried facts and truth. Total corruption and cold blooded murders that went unreported and unpunished. A real disgrace, truthfully.

And that is why there is such a critical importance of controlling media (and education and entertainment). It allows the control over INFORMATION and teaching...

I'm sorta surprised that Netflix would have produced something so critical of the 90s Clinton administration if that's the angle.

 

[CLee0507]

I'm sorta surprised that Netflix would have produced something so critical of the 90s Clinton administration if that's the angle.

Ya... well they have Michelle Obama's "Becoming" out next month to even things up.

 

[Jcon268]

I read a article that said that the producers tried to portray it from both sides not laying blame on either side. I watched it and my take was the way overstretch of the ATF. But then again I'm totally biased and never believed what was told back in 93'. I believe it happened pretty much like what was portrayed in this doc. there own agent tried to stop it and then they thru him under the bus and says he was compromised after telling the truth. Also no real reason to raid the place since the whole reason was because a delivery driver found a case of inert grenades. They were trying to make themselves look useful because the gov. Was considering fazing the ATF out they had already cut their budget after Ruby Ridge fiasco.

Stacy

That was one of the things that caught my eye the most about this series. They offered a pretty acceptable explanation as to WHY the ATF doubled down on their efforts at Waco, they were trying to actually redeem themselves from the obvious disaster that was Ruby Ridge by creating the public image that they were serving everyone's best interests. These guys had guns, yes but we need to have the media paint them as extremists so we can initiate force.

Does that last part seem eerily familiar to anyone else?

 

[Zathras]

Same here. I lived in Oklahoma during Waco and OKC. I vividly remember watching Waco on TV and where I was when we got the news about the OKC bombing. I saw the Murray less than a week later when all the wires and office equipment were still dangling from the hole and the major news outlets were still broadcasting from the site. It's one of those things I'll never forget. It wasn't until years later that I actual did my own reading (down the rabbit trail of reading about Ruby Ridge and Timothy McVeigh) and learned more of the truth

Was a teenager, not too far from Waco when it happened (and was still in TX at the time of OKC). I didn't understand Ruby Ridge or Waco beyond the 'crazy' spin we were all given. Not long after though, my dad had to clue his clueless teenager in as to what was going on in the world. The Waco event solidified my lifelong distrust of government and media all those years ago.

 

[spider]

There was another movie about this waco deal too, called the red state by kevin smith, just a drama with some added weird stuff but the same story.

 

[Jonnyuma]

My understanding is that it was based on a book by one of the people who escaped, and by the FBI negotiator who wasn't able to fully do his job.

David Thibodeau who escaped while the building was burning and Gary Noesner, who was the FBI negotiator, each wrote books and got credited.

Thibodeau says that some minor details about what happened inside were changed for dramatic effect but it was mostly an accurate representation.

Both of those guys have made their living(s) by being "Waco consultants" in the intervening years.

Sharp-eyed watchers will see (the real) David Thibodeau in one of the final scenes... sitting on a bench next to the actor portraying him as Noesner goes in to testify... he's the 300+ lb fella with no speaking lines.

 

[awshoot]

Thanks, I'll give it a look.
Binging Ozark is making my head spin... mostly because my GF won't pay close enough attention (stupid Candy Crush or something going on over there) and I end up explaining "What Just Happened(?)" all the way back into season 1 stuff. Most of that I barely remember myself... she needs to get out of the house more.

She just asked me "Where'd that baby come from?". Holy crap... lots of 'splainin' to do on that one...

LOL. My wife and I will be watching something together and she'll ask me "why do they blah blah blah" and I'll answer: "I'd tell you if you'll let me hear what they're saying, or we could both listen."

 

[awshoot]

... It is my understanding the OKC bombing was (at least in part) retaliation for Waco. ...

Weirdly, it is impossible to find any of the interviews McVeigh did on youtube.

In any event, you are correct, and The Internet Archive rescues the proof:

McVeigh Tapes: Confessions of an American Terrorist : MSNBCW : September 13, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT : Free Borrow & Streaming : Internet Archive

The April 19, 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, which killed 168 people, is recalled via audiotape interviews with the...

archive.org

Though the way it plays clips is weird. You'll see a box with a play icon. That will play 1 minute. Then scroll sideways and play the next minute. The two minutes starting at 6:58 have your quote.

 

[awshoot]

...
I was a liberal pro-Clinton college student during these events and didn't critically think or understand. But years later, I would study and learn the horrible government over-reach and outright corruption and lies of the Clinton administration (over this and many other dastardly acts).
...

Same.

Also to add to your list of bad things, let's not forget he funded his campaign with Chinese money, signed permanent normal trade relations with China, passed a bunch of job gutting unfair free trade deals, and repealed the laws that set the stage for the financial meltdown.

 

[g.i. joe]

Something to consider:

Taken from Aid & Abet Police Report, Vol. 2, Number 4, page 14., as quoted in the March 15, 1993 edition of the Wall Street Journal.

1) On Feb 27, black- uniformed men of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms wearing "coal-scuttle" helmets and carrying German made machine pistols attacked the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas. Fifty years earlier, in January 1943, black-uniformed SS men wearing "coal scuttle" helmets and carrying German-made machine pistols attacked the Jewish compound in Warsaw, Poland.

2) The BATF men were searching for illegal weapons reported by a paid informant to be in the Branch Davidian compound. The SS men were searching for illegal weapons reported by a paid informant to be in the Warsaw ghetto.

3) Reports from Texas indicated the Branch Davidians kept to themselves and harmed no one outside their compound prior to the BATF assault. History tells us the Jews kept to themselves and harmed no one outside the Warsaw ghetto prior to the SS assault.

4) The U.S. broadcast news media tells us that the Branch Davidians practiced contemptible sexual rituals involving young children, so they are an evil religious cult. Nazi news media told the German population that the Jews practiced contemptible sexual rituals involving children, so they were an evil religion.

5) The BATF invited the U.S. media to document the BATF assault to show the American public how dangerous the Branch Davidians are. The SS had propagandists document its assault to show the German public how dangerous the Jews were.

6) Four BATF men were killed and 16 wounded in the initial assault on the Branch Davidian compound. Eleven SS men were killed and an unrecorded number wounded in the initial assault on the Warsaw ghetto.

7) After the initial assault, the BATF men magnanimously arranged a truce so children could be evacuated from the Branch Davidian compound(and they could tend to their casualties). After their initial assault, the SS men magnanimously arranged a truce so children could be evacuated from the Warsaw ghetto compound (and they could tend to their casualties)

8) The BATF called up military units with armored vehicles to finish of the Branch Davidian compound after encountering fierce resistance against the initial assault. The SS called up military units with armored vehicles to finish of the Warsaw ghetto after encountering fierce resistance against the initial assault.

Fifty years have passed, but little has changed. _________________________________________________________ WHAT THIS ARTICLE HAS NOT REVEALED IS THE FINAL CONCLUSION TO THESE TWO GROUPS. 1) THAT THE ACCUSATIONS MADE(by BATF and SS men) AGAINST THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS AND JEWS WERE FOUND TO BE FALSE AND, 2) THAT BOTH THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPOUND AND THE WARSAW GHETTO WERE BURNED TO THE GROUND(by BATF and SS men).

One more thing to consider: what was the common denominator between the Branch Davidians and the Jews? Both groups kept the 7th day Sabbath.

 

[Hellgate]

One thing that bothered me was why the feds bulldozed the entire site by destroying any evidence there might be that would shed light on what happened. It just seemed like they were hiding something.

 

[sdlsaginaw]

The Netflix series Wild Wild Country was also a good binge about the Rajneeshpuram community in Oregon (only a little firearm tie-in though, they trained but the feds never invaded). It's funny how my wife and I saw two different shows. She saw a crazy evil cult that started doing worse and worse things to communities around them for no reason. I saw an unpopular group getting pushed out using various legal and questionable ways, and pushing back +1 in some questionable and some definitely illegal ways. I wasn't in Oregon at that time nor do I live in that area so I'm not going to say the group wasn't awful (especially poisoning a salad bar), but the series showed a lot of "tit for tat and a bit more back at you" on the part of the Rajneespuram. It was definitely worth watching.

 

[raylo]

I don't watch anything on netflix, especially things produced by netflix. Crapoganda. Chine$e funded.
If you want to know what really happened at Waco watch 'Waco: Rules of Engagement' and 'Waco: The Big Lie'. They were on YouTube last time I checked.

I don't know of any good documentaries on Ruby Ridge but I can tell you I moved to N ID a month before all that went down. I was very good friends with a Sheriff that regularly was sent to handle situations with the Weavers and their neighbors. Most of the truth on Ruby Ridge has come out from the court case but back in '92 in real time even the local news was portraying Randy as the embodiment of evil. He was perceived as such by most of the public even locally until after his acquittal. I knew the truth about him/them in real time.

 

[CLT65]

The Netflix series Wild Wild Country was also a good binge about the Rajneeshpuram community in Oregon (only a little firearm tie-in though, they trained but the feds never invaded). It's funny how my wife and I saw two different shows. She saw a crazy evil cult that started doing worse and worse things to communities around them for no reason. I saw an unpopular group getting pushed out using various legal and questionable ways, and pushing back +1 in some questionable and some definitely illegal ways. I wasn't in Oregon at that time nor do I live in that area so I'm not going to say the group wasn't awful (especially poisoning a salad bar), but the series showed a lot of "tit for tat and a bit more back at you" on the part of the Rajneespuram. It was definitely worth watching.

I was in Oregon at that time. They were bad news. There are always two sides to every story, and everyone has their own perspective. Most everyone is searching for something, desperate for a guru to tell them what to believe and how to live. Rajneesh must have been quite a convincing guru; lots of big money and gullible people poured into his compound. They tried to take over the county, and the locals absolutely hated them.

The compound is still out there. It was sold at auction some years back and is now run as a youth camp, by a mainstream church organization, not a cult. My father-in-law goes out there to volunteer once in a while, doing minor carpenter work and brush clearing.

 

[MarshalChillN]

Thanks, I'll give it a look.
Binging Ozark is making my head spin... mostly because my GF won't pay close enough attention (stupid Candy Crush or something going on over there) and I end up explaining "What Just Happened(?)" all the way back into season 1 stuff. Most of that I barely remember myself... she needs to get out of the house more.

She just asked me "Where'd that baby come from?". Holy crap... lots of 'splainin' to do on that one...

I __KNOW__ your problem as I have the same thing going on here... Damn FB/cellphone is her constant companion ! LOVED Ozark and cant wait for the next season !

 

[Superradman]

Hello,

I just finished the Waco series on Netflix and it got me curious about the whole scenario. I was only 3 years old when it happened. the situation was never really explained to me besides the basics. I'm curious if anyone here watched that show and could relate it to what they've observed from interviews and reports. I'm wondering how much of that show is based on what likely happened vs what was most likely give them better ratings.

I'm writing this forum in this sub because I want to focus on the publicity of the matter and have an honest discussion of how Waco, even ruby ridge, pertains to the 2nd. How much of what I'm reading about the situation on the internet is likely true?

Thanks.

I quit well before the first episode.Randy may of talked to white supremacists but they painted him as one right from the start.fu@k netflix. The FBI set him up and killed his family after he would not turn CI for them.