Negligent discharge video (in the leg)

[saxon]

what i meant was that is it natural for you grab something with your index finger pointed? no it is not.
that is why we train our selfs to draw a gun from a holster WITH out putting a finger in the trigger,
and to return the gun to the holster with out the finger in the trigger guard.
take a thumb brake holster for a second if the thumb brake took me that extra 10/1000 of a second to draw
and i feel i was not able to draw fast enough and i got shot, should i say it was a bad design?
the guy in the video said he did not hit the release right and that the gun did not release,
if so then how did he get the gun out and get his finger in the trigger?

 

[Burt Gummer]

I have pondered what happened to this guy. I think it will be remembered for a second as I reach for my pistol at the range, which is a good thing.

Not to be morbid, but I can't help but think how bad it would have been with a defense/hollow round.

 

[biggie24420]

It was a learning experience but this guy is a deeDdee..... he acts like a know it all because he takes classes. He said his training kicked in and he called his parents and called 911 and treated his wounds aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha. I would think you attend to the wound, call 911 and call your parents. Anyways he is lucky he didn't do more damage and let this be a learning lesson to those who talk out of their behind a lot. I deal with people like this guy every week..... it's sad. I think maybe he should have shot himself in his pecker so he wouldn't have any kids.... don't need RE-REs like him.... there are a lot of them on this planet already.

 

[chemist]

I wonder how light the trigger pull is set on that pistol. After watching the slow-mo section, it looks like he barely touches it, as he slides his finger downward.

Hey, we all know that 1911's are safe because of their thumb safety and Glocks aren't because of their lack of same!

Personally, I can't think of one reason to carry a single-action pistol for SD. I love target shooting and sometimes amaze myself with what I'm able to hit, given enough time and attention to the trigger. But the 1911's and revolvers that work so well on targets when fired single-action are totally lacking in trigger feedback. In a dynamic environment where I and my target are both moving, I have to have that pre-break sense or I can't anticipate it accurately.

 

[wichaka]

Have heard other problems associated with Serpas years ago, including not releasing the gun consistently...but the index finger into the trigger guard has always been a concern.

This incident also makes a good point about mental training yourself with different equipment. I just avoid that pitfall by having all my pistols operate alike, without having to think about what I'm packing at the time. Same for my holsters...all operate the same.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=82779

 

[Redcap]

It really is too bad that guy wasn't a better shot. He missed his own head.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

It really is too bad that guy wasn't a better shot. He missed his own head.

If this happened to you, who on this site would make that same statement? I agree that his situation was self induced, but come on Redcap, be honest, have you ever had an accidental discharge? If you havent, eventually, you will. I can only hope that if and when it does, it works out better for you than this guy. John.

 

[absoluterik07]

I loved how he gently set down his pistol afterwards. Talk about staying calm under a crappy situation!

 

[wichaka]

If we get down to the facts of the matter, we can all learn form everyone's mistakes...as long as we can keep our pride in check, and not ridicule. I applaud the guy for making the video, so we can see first hand what happened, and not just hear about it.
How much information has been gained from those who have gone before us on the street and have paid the ultimate price?

I have been very fortunate to be able to sit in on after street action debriefs, or view the debrief video, along with dash cam footage, and one and one interviews. This is how we all learn to avoid pitfalls, and concentrate on the glaring deficiencies in our shooting regimen.

Two very important points that have been echoing over the years, and are completely obvious here;

1) Equipment - Just because its from a named maker doesn't mean its worth anything.

I find quite a bit of firearms related items to be gimmicky, and worthless as a mules shadow on a pile of tin cans. And watch out for gun rag recommendations, we don't see many critical evaluations in the rags, they don't want to upset their advertisers.

2) Mental Prep - We need to keep our head screwed on straight, and mentally acknowledge when there's something different with the next gun/piece of equipment we pick up/use.



Be well.

 

[AnthonyL]

Kill all the talk about holsters. The guy clearly states it not an issue with his holster selection. From watching the video you can clearly see it was a mistake on his part. The booger hook squeezed the trigger and the firearm went bang. Case closed. Kudos to him for admitting so others could learn from is mistake.

 

[rusobr2]

after watching the vid. , my testicles hurt so bad it's hard to write.......
i was raised as "doubletappdrew" wrote ........i was taught, the real safety on any gun,is your finger !!
cute little trick holster.....but it didn't work !!
thank GOD he's ok...... kinda surprised he didn't have one of the 1800 style holsters that hung right over your crotch

this is one of those times , i say "whatever".......steven

 

[Asp]

This guy failed to complete the drill, even if he was injured he should have went down to his back and unloaded into the target.

I did not complete a drill once, and I felt terrible for not completing it. It's one thing to finish last, but doing nothing has a 100% chance of failure when training in confrontational drills like the video.

 

[MarkAd]

It is 100% natural, at least for me, to draw, hold and maneuver with a pistol while my index figure is straight. Did it take training? Yes.

I would much rather be 10/1000 of second slower using my thumb to break a snap, rotate an SLS hood or deactivate an ALS than be 10/1000 faster using my index finger to manipulate a lock and potentially engage the trigger causing an ND. So to answer your question, no, thumb breaks are not a bad design. That said I do use thumb breaks anymore. If I require a holster with retention I will use an SLS or ALS. For CCW, IMO, retention holsters should not be used. Duty, or other open carry uses, should have additional retention.

You are incorrect in regards to the guy in the video. At first, he mistakenly disengaged the safety on his 1911 because of muscle memory due to earlier practice with his 5.11 thumb drive holster, he then realized he was working with a Serpa not a Thumbdrive and used his trigger finger to release his 1911 from the holster (as it was designed to do), in his haste he curled his finger into the trigger guard, pressed the trigger with the now off safety and blew a hole in his leg. That is the design flaw of the Serpa holster. Is that the holsters fault? No, it is an inanimate object and placing blame on inanimate objects is ludicrous. The responsibility rests solely on the designers, manufacturer and the users for failing to see the potential hazard associated with it and their continuing to defend it.

You keep making a lot off noise about Serpa's being bad, but you fail to suggest an alternative holster or state which you like, use and why.
So lets hear your alternatives to Serpa.

 

[wichaka]

For concealment, the Safariland 6367 or 6377 ALS models.

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/concealment/holster.aspx


For duty, the 6360 is probably top of the Mt at the moment. I've been thrown around a few gym mats as folks try to rip the gun out of the holster. They are made stout, and will take a lot of abuse.

http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/duty/als.aspx


I'm the last person that will fall to gimmicks, so I had to put a few of the above holsters thru some tough paces before I would recommend them. Luckily I was able to get some direct from Safariland for T&E, and pretty much beat them into oblivion. I won't recommend anything unless I've either personally laid hands on the item, or get a report from trusted sources in the industry.

I know a few LE's who owe their lives to them. Like I've said before in many posts I've made, I won't recommend junk to anyone.

 

[Griz81]

Watching this thread go back and forth the phrase "To each their own" comes to mind. I have a serpa that I train with and feel confident with it. For those who are newer to guns or do not put in time training it is not a wise choice. A holster, like a gun, is a personal choice. The user has to be comfortable with it.

With that said, if you like the serpa, carry in peace. And likewise, those who choose one of the many other exceedingly fine holsters can be happy with theirs. The key to whatever choice you make is that you train with it. Given the experience in the video, I might also suggest that a similar style holster for different guns would also be beneficial.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

‪Opinion: Blackhawk SERPA and Tex Grebners Mishap‬‏ - YouTube

As the old saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words. And that one says a bunch.

 

[Will_Power]

At least he didn't hurt himself to bad. :|

YouTube - ‪I shot myself! NEGLIGENT DISCHARGES HAPPEN!‬‏

Wait, guys, I'm really confused here.

Um..

He was shooting 45acp out of a 1911 platform. The internets have taught me that's supposed to be instant death. What happened? Glad the guy's alive - don't get me wrong - but how sure are we that he was actually using a .45?

 

[wichaka]

The internets have taught me...

...and that can really be a problem for some people.

Yes, as 1911 45 was used.

Got back from a training this past week over in the Tri-Cities area, and no less than 2 Serpas failed to release because of debris.
Was going thru a rifle class, where we had to drop and do straight and roll over prone shooting. The ground was talcum powder like dirt. with pea gravel mixed in.

After doing that we did some transition shooting, and needless to say...at least two people couldn't transition.

Contrary to popular belief, some folks don't know, what they don't know.

The video that titsonritz posted, shows the best example of the problems encountered.

 

[Zepoll]

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

My new favorite quote.

 

[Zepoll]

That round traveled LENGTHWISE down the quadricep.. OOOUUUUCCCCHH!!! : )