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need some bluing advise

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Gunsmithing' started by Drkside45, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. Drkside45

    Drkside45 chehalis wa Member

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    I,m trying to fix up an old 7mm mag my father left me,the bluing needs help,if anyone can give me some tips on a good product,and some proceedure tips it would be greatly appreciated, thanks a lot, Doc:)
     
  2. Southridge

    Southridge Orting WA. Member

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    Hello Doc
    the bluing products that you buy over the counter are cold blue
    and usually end up not looking or holding up as well as the factory Blue job that you have.
    Brownells does have some cold blue formulas like Oxpho blue
    or 44/40.
    if the areas are trying to touch up are not real big these should work OK.
    when you use them make sure you degrease the areas well and also warm the metal it helps with the penetration since heat is the catalyst for all these products.
     
  3. CaughtSteelin

    CaughtSteelin Oregon Member

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    I did a .243 last year due to un-proper storage techniques by my family. I thought it came out great, hunted with it pretty hard this year and it's still holding up. I forgot the name, but it's an over the counter product with a kit (some blue bottles, steel wool, sand paper, giant q-tips).

    We degrease everything, then followed the directions. You gotta work fast and best with two people imo.

    Good luck. If you have the money then I would say go with a pro.
     
  4. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    Summary:

    * The short version is, only with professionally applied hot bluing you will ever get a durable beautiful "bluish" finish, but not even that is guarranteed.

    * The best true cold blue that produces a blue finish is Oxpho Blue. It is also the easiest to apply and touch up.

    Long version:
    There is two major types of bluing: cold and hot. Cold is easy, pratical and anyone can do it. There is a bit of a learning curve but not too bad.

    Hot bluing requires corrosive chemicals, tanks, burners, and tons of patience. There is a fine website by a guy who calls himself the Blind Hog with lot's of good advise on how to do hot bluing and parkerizing. I've done it and it works.

    A local smith I know does elevated temperature bluing. Equipment very, very pricy (in the thoudsans) , does not emit corrosive vapors and finish is of great quality and is black, not blue.

    This is good place to explain about finsihes: even both hot and cold, there are two types of finish: black and blue. With the exception of Oxpho Blue, all the cold blues I've been able to get my hands on produce either a black or, in the case of hardened steel, a metallyc gray finish.

    The cold blues come in two varieties: paste and liquid. Oxpho Blue and 44/40, Birchwood and Casey are pastes. With pastes you apply, let is do the work for a few seconds and then you wipe off.

    Caswell's and my friend's are liquid. You dip the barrel, receiver gun parts in a plastic tank for a fe seconds or minutes. Then rinse and dip in a penetrating oil and let is rest overnight. Caswell's is a piece of crap. Stay away from it. But, if you insist on getting it, I have a kit I can sell you:D. I will dig up my friends cold blue system if you are still interested. It's finish is black, not blue. Not sure how it performs with hardened steel.

    If you are going to do a decent looking job, you'd need to remove all the old bluing (tricky and deserving another thread altogether) sand/polish the barrel, the re-blue. That my friend is a lto of work. Been there, done that, and won't do again w/o proper equipment and chemicals.

    In summary, I'd either leave it alone, or touch it up with Oxpho Blue, like Southbridge said. If you still want to do the complete gun yourself and you want blue, the Oxpho Blue. I've done complete guns with it and it looks sharp. The only down side is you will need to touch it up with some frequency. But its not too bad because Oxpho Blue is so easy to use. I love it.
     
  5. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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  6. Southridge

    Southridge Orting WA. Member

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    onearmedswordsman
    thank you for giving the complete run down I tried but I just don't have the patience for giving the long version.:thumbup:
     
  7. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    oh, come on! how much you appreciate your 7mm? It does not take much to ruin a finish. it is up to you.

    The super abridged version:
    * Oxpho Blue :thumbup:x3
    * 44/40 :thumbup:x2
    * Bling Hogg's hot bluing :thumbup:x2
    * Birchwood and Casey :thumbup:
    * Caswell :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
     
  8. Southridge

    Southridge Orting WA. Member

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    I know ,I know
    since I have been doing refinishing as my full time gig I have or have tried most of the products on the market and there truly is no end all finishes.
    and the only time I use cold blue is on the end of roll pins.
    and to tell the truth after I Park and GunKote my guns it's like closing a chapter
    because just don't have those issues anymore.
    but as long as there are blued guns there will always be a need for those products. Oxpho blue x 3:thumbup: But also when I need to hot blue I prep and use a friends tank on the guns that just have to be blued.
    OK so here's my advise to anyone that tries any refinishing of any kind
    the prep work is the key I have had guns in here that have gone through hours of degreasing. there's just nothing worse then spending a day on a gun just to end up re doing it. so know I just follow my own protocol on every piece I do.
     
  9. Drkside45

    Drkside45 chehalis wa Member

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    Thanks for the advise and info guys,I will try the oxpho with plenty of prep,I will let you know how it goes,by the way,its a s&w 7mm bolt action,real nice wood stock with checkering and all that,and.....my dad used it for elk for years before he passed,just needs some touch up on the last six or so inches on the barrel. Thanks again.
     
  10. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    No one has mentioned rust bluing. Hot and cold methods. Most high end doubles are rust blued.
     
  11. onearmedswordsman

    onearmedswordsman Hillsboro, OR Member

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    Oh, yeah! I've never tried, but, yes, that's another option, with its nice brown/blue-ish finish.

    One other good thing about Oxpho Blue is that it is not too finicky about preping, i.e. cleaning off oils. that's what makes it soooo good for touch up.
     
  12. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    Art's Belgiam Blue gives a blue black finish that is very robust.

    short01.jpg

    snuubie1101.jpg
     
  13. cyclesurvival

    cyclesurvival Vancouver Well-Known Member

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    cold blue is ok for touch ups, black oxide is the way to go I use oxnate 7 from brownells, you could do a one tank methode with a camp stove or BBQ using Mark Lee(easy to use rust bluing), you will need a carding wheel (or lots of steel wool 000 size). I use this on double barrel shot guns produces a nice even satin finnish. prep work is the key and you can find instructions at Brownells. good luck
     
  14. country boy

    country boy portland area Member

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    You beat me to it. I have done some research and it seems like a simple enough process, haven't yet had a chance to try it out yet though so I can't speak to its durability or anything.
     
  15. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    +1. Rust bluing will produce a deep blue if done right. Takes more equipment
    that cold blue, but doesn't corrode the cat and pi$$ off the neighbors like
    a full on hot blue setup will.

    Takes a while. Rust/boil/card---repeat until you are happy, oil.

    Polishing is the labor intensive part of any bluing process. The higher
    the polish, the shinier the blue. What I do is ask around and find out
    who is doing hot bluing. Then ask if it's OK if I do the dis/re-assembly
    and polishing, and all they have to do is dunk it. Usually pretty cheap
    for a hot blue job that way.
     
  16. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    Cold blue is fine for small parts, but an entire gun, not so fine. It doesn't penetrate like the hot blue salts do. The old rust blue is truely an art and takes a lot of time. The hot blue is not a do it at home type thing, as anything metal in the room such as tools will end up rust. Also it takes skill to polish the metal parts, removing the rust and old finish, keeping edges square. not getting round holes oblong, and retaining all markings not to become faded out. The blue job is about 98% polishing correctly. The finished product is dipped into a distilled water/degreaser (boiling), and transfered to a hot blue tank until the desired color is reached. A final dip into a oil tank to kill the salt action stopping further chemical action. Let sit before removal of the oil and cleaned and lubed. Another alternate would be to return to the factory repairs of the manufacturer to refinish to orginal. The satin finish is the more durable than a highly polished blue job, and holds
    protective coatings much better.
    I disagree with the polish yourself for some one to dip it in their tanks! If you are not fimiliar with polishing, you will regret the damage done. If it is important to you, it's worth having it professionally done. Besides any collector value it might have, is lost with refinishing no matter how good it is.
    Not certain if the same with a factory refubishment