Need Input on Soft Shooting Pistol Caliber Carbine For Home Defense

[Alexx1401]

Initially Shockwave type firearms were not legal in Texas or Ohio, maybe other states. They are now legal in Texas and Ohio because they changed their state laws. They are not legal in California, as are a number of other firearms. Before traveling thru or to a given state with firearms, it pays to know their laws regarding firearms and what the FOP protects and does not protect when traveling.

CA, NY, NJ, seem to never be able to come up with enough gun laws.
That Co that got the Shockwave thing started shocked me no end the first time I saw the ad for one. It was a kit to turn a Cruzer into what later became the Shockwave. When I saw the ad I thought "no way in hell could this be legal". Then started reading about it and was shocked no one had spotted the mistake the BATF made before these guys. Then I was waiting for the Feds to do what they do best, just invent a new rule but they for some reason elected to let it go. After a while Mossy jumped into the market. I guess when they decided it looked like the Feds were going to let this slide for a while at least. Then I kept waiting for one of the morons in congress to see one. Could picture them holding one up for the camera's to shout how evil it was.

 

[GWS]

I just cannot thank you all enough for all for your input and suggestions. Here is where I am:

1. Price: When I first started this search I thought maybe spending $1,000 but after reading and watching the delayed blow back guns, it seems that is a good fit for us - which seems to lead to spending more than $1,000.

I seem to have a mental block going over the $1,600 price area LOL.

2. Caliber: I really like the idea of the 5.7x28 it seems like it was designed to be a fairly light recoil round. I'm not excited about the inability to reload it. The price per round is scary but to be honest, I'm most likely not gonna shoot 1,000s of rounds at the range.

I like the idea that 9mm is available and not considered to have heavy recoil.

And I really like the 45acp (I guess just old school LOL) - it would be nice just to use the 45acp ammo that I have.

3. So right now I'm leaning towards the CMMG Banshee.

So I do have more questions though.

I confused about the difference between the 2 Banshee models. One has a forward grip (I assume this is considered rifle?) and is labeled NFA. What does the NFA label mean?

We travel with our 5th wheel trailer as much as we can. Try to winter in Texas each year. I was thinking we would take this new gun as our "truck gun". Does that change which model I can legally carry?

RIFLE, BANSHEE, MkG, 45 ACP, 5", NFA | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

Chambered in what is arguably the most patriotic pistol caliber available, this .45 ACP BANSHEE™ SBR is one of the

cmmginc.com

Banshee 300 Pistol, MkG, 45 ACP | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

If you want the best an AR has to offer, then the 300 Series is your choice. This AR is fitted with every desired

cmmginc.com

Bill

There are 3 banshee models and the primary difference between 100, 200 and 300 is barrel length. The 300 has some better features over the 100 and 200..
The Banshees are all AR pistols. If you put a vertical forward grip(VFG) on a Banshee, you've converted it to a short-barreled rifle which needs an NFA tax stamp($200) and permissions to take it out of your home state. So, IMHO, Why bother with it? As stated earlier, companies like MagPul, Arisaka, BCM and others make Stops which are not considered VFGs
These are helpful, but not a grip. They will prevent your hand from sliding forward over your muzzle which is always a good thing.

5.7 CAN be reloaded but there are 2 big issues with it.
You must be very cautious about resizing . Shooting the 5.7 pushes the shoulder forward so when resizing you have ram that die all the way down on that case. This heavy reworking of the brass severely limits its lifespan and make the cases useful for reloading at best 3 times. So, you have to inspect your brass carefully after that first reload.
Number 2 is that FN and I assume Federal use a proprietary lube on their cartridges to ease feeding. Obviously, running that brass through a tumbler, especially if you use steel pins, removes that lube and as a result, your perfectly formed brass may not feed correctly. I have no personal experience with that but I have seen that mentioned in one or two articles. Maybe ultrasonic cleaning can help with that.
But still, at least for now the biggest drawback to 5.7x28 ammo is availability The stuff is very hard to find and expensive when you do find any. I have not seen FN ammo on the shelves in months in the Vancouver area, and Federal pops up only infrequently.

For what its worth, I recommend you get the Banshee in 45, inasmuch as you are already well- stocked with 45 ACP, Especially now, when ALL pistol ammo is so hard to find
Again, good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[wired]

Ive reloaded a crap ton of 5.7. All mine was to build up 55 to- 70 grain subsonics like FN refuses to sell to mere civilians. Just dont tumble it . Wash it with some diluted simple green and call it a a day . Never had a problem reloading it.

 

[Decoy]

I'm a 72 year old guy with not much upper body strength. My only real physical disability is that I have no vision in my right eye. My wife is 70 and we are both short people (5' and 5'7"). I have a Sig P220 Elite in stainless. I love this pistol but it's not good for my wife. Racking the slide is not something she can do. I love the P220 short reset trigger and the weight helps with recoil.

I want to find a pistol caliber carbine that both I and my wife can shoot.

For me if the gun is not fun to shoot, it's not gonna get any time at the practice range. And the gun needs to be pretty simple for my wife cause she is just not gonna practice a lot. She will go to the range but not often.

So here is my thinking. I'm looking at the Banshee 300 in 5" barrel. My question is what caliber? Would 9mm give me less kickback than 45acp?

Thanks for any input.

Bill in Gig Harbor, WA

I do quite a bit of training and almost no one knows how to properly rack a slide. Many folks fine it difficult to rack their slide if they are using the wrong technique.

They hold the gun in their strong hand and grasp and pull back with with their weak hand. This pinches or tweeks the tendons in their wrist and can make racking difficult to impossible for some.

The better way is to grasp the gun in the strong hand and grasp the slide with their weak hand, the difference Is that you need to push the gun forward with strong hand (not pull back with the weak hand). This allows you to use the major muscles in your strong hand instead of the weaker tendons in your wrist.

try it and see if it helps her. My son was 4 and could rack a 1911 using this method.

 

[K-22]

I'm a 72 year old guy with not much upper body strength. My only real physical disability is that I have no vision in my right eye. My wife is 70 and we are both short people (5' and 5'7"). I have a Sig P220 Elite in stainless. I love this pistol but it's not good for my wife. Racking the slide is not something she can do. I love the P220 short reset trigger and the weight helps with recoil.

I want to find a pistol caliber carbine that both I and my wife can shoot.

For me if the gun is not fun to shoot, it's not gonna get any time at the practice range. And the gun needs to be pretty simple for my wife cause she is just not gonna practice a lot. She will go to the range but not often.

So here is my thinking. I'm looking at the Banshee 300 in 5" barrel. My question is what caliber? Would 9mm give me less kickback than 45acp?

Thanks for any input.

Bill in Gig Harbor, WA

Marlin Camp 45. Plentiful ammo, low recoil, low risk of over penetration, and easy to handle.

 

[Grizzly_A]

I do quite a bit of training and almost no one knows how to properly rack a slide. Many folks fine it difficult to rack their slide if they are using the wrong technique.

They hold the gun in their strong hand and grasp and pull back with with their weak hand. This pinches or tweeks the tendons in their wrist and can make racking difficult to impossible for some.

The better way is to grasp the gun in the strong hand and grasp the slide with their weak hand, the difference Is that you need to push the gun forward with strong hand (not pull back with the weak hand). This allows you to use the major muscles in your strong hand instead of the weaker tendons in your wrist.

try it and see if it helps her. My son was 4 and could rack a 1911 using this method.

+1

I realize that's not the answer to the OP's question, but it's great advice.

Go with the Banshee if it looks interesting to you. It sounds like you don't have a compatible pistol, but if you did, I would recommend one of the MechTec PCC uppers. Then you could keep the pistol as a pistol or use it as a PCC. I would get a PCC in 9mm because I would go through more ammo and it's less expensive to shoot at the range.

 

[Fileroman]

Have a Marlin Camp rifle in 9mm. Hard to find and has considerable weight, so negligible recoil.

 

[revjen45]

Isn't "soft shooting pistol caliber carbine" a *redundancy?

Sorry - couldn't help myself...


* Kinda like "Coors Light."

 

[jgraphix73]

I've read a similar post a while back while I was living in CA.
They were looking for a gun that was light, easy to shoot, easy recoil and held a lot of rounds. The person was looking for a gun for their elderly parent who lived alone.
The recommendation was a Keltec PMR30. I ended up researching it myself and found it met the requirements for that individual.
Easy recoil, held 30 rounds and very lightweight. I ended up buying one and the 22 wm is not even considered a defensive round, but if you are at the receiving end, the 22wm was loud enough to think you were getting shot at with a larger caliber.
They do have a carbine version, I believe its called a CMR. Might want to look into that and definitely research it to see if it meets your needs.

 

[revjen45]

So, the .22WMR is a mousegun and the 5.7x28 is the latest in deadly sidearm/carbine calibers. Got it.
This not in response to any particular post here, but to the "common wisdom." If I had something that kept me from using something in a "real fightin' gun" caliber I would think real hard on the PMR30. Does the 5.7x28 actually exceed the performance of the .22 WMR by the amount more that the guns and ammo cost? It is the "common wisdom" that a .22 doesn't have the beans for defensive use, but the .22 WMR isn't of the .22 lr level of effectiveness, and 30 rds on tap makes a big difference.

 

[musicmonster24]

really awesome firearm. selling it because sadly this one is in .22LR and not necessarily for self defense. If I find a endomag compatible 9mm upper, I will swap it out, but this is one of the best firearms out there (if you can find it) --

 

[BZawlocki]

I don't recall who but someone posted that I might consider the B&T APC45Pro.

I did not want to spend that much but from all reports this is not only a great PCC but the craftsmanship is excellent and easily operated by an old left handed one eyed Polock!

Thanks for all your input it is/was greatly appreciated.

Bill

PS: tested positive for Covid the other day. I am vaccinated and boosted. On my 10th day of symptoms, we waited to get tested because we thought it might be a severe cold - that's how it presented to me.

A weird symptom I am having is hiccups! I guess I'm just weird! Lol.

Thanks again.

 

[WillametteWill]

Get well soon! My temp went up to 101.7 last night so I might be in the same boat with you. Need to wait a few days and see.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Hopefully it is just the Omicron that does not get in your lungs. I had Delta in August and did fine for a week on Vitamins C, D3, K2, Quercetin and Zinc. As the second week started C19 crushed my lungs and I ended up in the Hospital for 4 days.

 

[osprey]

I would definitely stay away from a traditional blow back action in an AR pistol platform in a pistol caliber. With l the reciprocating mass needed to make the system work, they have a decent amount of felt recoil. That is why I ditched all my pistol caliber AR's in favor of rifle cartridges which have way better terminal effect for the same or slightly more recoil depending on cartridge. Some of the non AR platforms shooting pistol rounds that have been suggested here may be a good alternative if they shoot soft. I have no experience with them so I can't really weigh in on their viability.

 

[Nosferatu]

A weird symptom I am having is hiccups! I guess I'm just weird! Lol.

Hiccups are the new bumpfire method.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

If the CMMG 45 does not fit the bill, I suggest the

Kriss Vector Gen II SDP

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If the CMMG 45 does not fit the bill, I suggest the

Kriss Vector Gen II SDP

Since most of us can't shoot the Kris vector in full auto, and many 9mms are pretty tame recoil wise to begin with, what is the big advantage to having something like this that has so much added complexity, weight, bulk, and expense?

In full auto I can see more benefits but for our use I'm not sure the pros outweigh the cons. I have never shot one though so I don't know.

Someday we need to get a bunch of us to meet at wolf creek or somewhere and test fire a whole bunch of different PCCs. That would be fun and educational.

 

[Member 34319]

I know some have said to avoid direct blowback. I'd say that's a bit overstated. Blowbacks are not heavy recoiling by any means. They also are wholeheartedly more reliable due to less moving parts and simpler operating components. They are also more readily available, and usually less expensive.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I know some have said to avoid direct blowback. I'd say that's a bit overstated. Blowbacks are not heavy recoiling by any means. They also are wholeheartedly more reliable due to less moving parts and simpler operating components. They are also more readily available, and usually less expensive.

Agree and it depends a lot on the guns design imo. Some designs fe have the recoiling mass forward and above the barrel fe which helps reduce recoil (I guess I should say "perceived recoil"). Having shot such a gun design compared to a typical AR type 9mm where the mass is behind and in line with the barrel for me there was a night and day difference.

Another thing I'm curious about is how much a compensator can influence recoil on a given gun. I need to do a head to head comparison of a good compensator vs standard flash hider to see if there is a noticeable difference or not on 9mm PCCs.

I guess it's a matter of personal preference and what each individual values the most. Some delayed blowback guns like cmmg banshee, mp5 clones come to mind as being more complex and expensive but not as expensive as some of the bmt, sig, and hk guns (all of which may be worth it to any given person). If a person had all the options lined up and shot them head to head (semi auto versions I mean), it would be pretty clear what they liked.