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Need Help with senator meeting

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by SIG383, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. SIG383

    SIG383 Graham, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have been requested to have a sit down meeting with one of my State senators here in Washington State in regards to gun control. This senator is NOT a supporter of the Second Amendment in regards to its true nature. He feels "assault guns" and "high-capacity" mags are bad, etc… With this being said, he is willing, and wants to hear my side of the debate. I would like to be able to go in with all my ducks in a row and show him that gun owners are not a bunch of bumbling idiots. It would be great if I could collect facts, statistcs…anything that will help us out as a whole. Anything I get, I want to have good, reliable sources to back them up and not just rely on hearsay. Can you all help me out by emailing me any and all documents you might have. Things like spreadsheets, statistics, figures, graphs, pictures…whatever. You can email me any and all to dub2nr@gmail.com Thank you everyone!
    John
     
  2. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You didn't ask but this advice is free: stick with one, maybe two points to hammer/blast/sear into his mind. You are not going to leave that office having made a case for the true purpose of the second amendment. Don't even approach it unless he pushes you into a corner, then whip it out and whip out the single statement 'Shall not be infringed, what is unclear about that?'

    Consider hitting two facts: the percentage of crimes in the US involving semi-auto rifles, it's miniscule and you can find the data on FBI.gov. The other fact I'd harp on is women using semi-autos in self defense of their lives and families. No one with political leanings is going to mess with women's rights, publicly. If you can get him to acknowledge that women are at a natural disadvantage, especially with multiple attackers, then the game is over and he's penned in.

    Women, dude. He'll never see it coming.
     
  3. BillB1960

    BillB1960 Hillsboro Active Member

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  4. Oathkeeper1775

    Oathkeeper1775 Coast Range Well-Known Member

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    I have the PDF for you!

    The most logical and well-thought 2A letter I have seen to date; it goes far beyond the scrolling marquis or nuclear options like "out of my cold dead hands...." we like to see,
    it actually has statistics to support 2A and gun ownership.

    This same same letter was sent to TSOTH Boehner last week.

    Sending it to you asap.

    Thank you for your effort(s).
     
  5. Kable

    Kable Lynnwood Active Member

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    Which senator? I have ideas about how to approach this and just wrote pretty lengthy facebook post toward an anti gun friend/ex co worker who thinks AR's are a machine gun because even though you can fire one shot per trigger its still really fast. I have been wondering how to actually talk to anti gun senstors I wouldn't mind helping you put something together and dig up statistics I already looked up some stats for WA and in 2011 only 1 homicide was committed with a rifle
     
  6. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    Since 1992, violent crime in the US has halved
    FBI ? Table 1

    In 2011, of the 12,664 murders in the US, 8,583 were with a firearm. Of the 8,583, 323 murders were done with a rifle. The "assault rifle" is a subset of the rifle category. Rifles account for 3.7% of nationwide homicides. From the table below, knives, fists, and blunt objects account for far more murders than rifles.
    FBI ? Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

    The military uses 30 round magazines for a reason, they don't jam.
    Aurora: The shooter used large capacity magazines that are notorious for jamming, it jammed.
    Arizona: The shooter used a large capacity magazine and was disarmed when he dropped it while reloading. Those magazines are large, heavy, and unwieldy, no wonder he dropped it.

    With practice, a shooter can reload fast enough to prevent a possible disarming by an unarmed individual. The fastest revolver reload occurs in 2.9 seconds. 12 shots fired from a revolver in 2.9 seconds.

    Unless they go door to door confiscating scary black rifles, criminals will always have access to them. Criminals have a blatant disregard for life and laws, only law abiding citizens are impacted by legislation.
     
  7. accessbob

    accessbob Molalla, OR 2A Supporter

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    What I would use for 2A to show that yes, those are valid is to direct them to the actual writings of the framers of the Constitution. Specifically the Federalist Papers #46 from James Madison. In it he goes into how the country would be armed and able to withstand tyranny because of it. I think a lot of the people don't believe the 2A was intended for such because they just read the words of the 2A and take them at face value based on today. But they rarely dig into the reasoning behind it with actual writings to support the concept.
     
  8. accessbob

    accessbob Molalla, OR 2A Supporter

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    Most importantly is that YOU read it and understand it BEFORE the meeting.
     
    Caveman Jim and (deleted member) like this.
  9. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Interesting how certain, newish and typically contradictory members don't care to weigh in on constructive action-oriented threads like these. Carry on.
     
  10. kumabear17

    kumabear17 Issaquah Active Member

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    Thank you for making this attempt to discuss gun rights with one of our State Representatives. I would be curious too as to which one. I think the FBI information is important and all to often ignored. I do agree the fewer points made and emphasized always promotes a stronger presentation then a rambling story. There is so much to choose from in addition to the obvious crime facts. Good luck and please let us know how it turns out – and no I wouldn’t expect him to change his mind right then, but if he doesn’t brush you off and push you right out the door maybe it would be a sign he heard something important he needs to consider.
     
    jimwest and (deleted member) like this.
  11. tkdguy

    tkdguy Portland, Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I can fax some materials to you. Send me a PM or published fax number and I can send you materials. tkdguy
     
  12. eternalphoenix64

    eternalphoenix64 Washougal, WA Member

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    I've had a conversation about this with a fellow student at my college. I placed him in a situation of an active shooter while I was concealed carrying. In this situation we're in a hallway which has alcoves for doors into classrooms. The first thing I'm doing is getting to cover, but I may need to fire a few rounds while the shooter is still trying to level his weapon so that I can get to that cover. I look out from my cover to identify my target, but my adrenaline is pumping, given clear shooting line, I may fire 3 more shots but still miss wildly. I resume my cover, gather my senses, but if there's a 7 round limit, I may be on my last round. The shooter is likely to be packed with extra, much higher capacity mags because he's already breaking the law, what does he care if he breaks one more? Letting me have my 15 round mag gives me the opportunity to level the playing field. As someone pointed out earlier, it does the same for a disadvantaged woman who is falling victim to a violent predatory assailant.

    We live in a world where the violence is of huge concern, no doubt, but there are Department of Justice reports that admit that the old AWB was either of no effect or made violence worse. I don't know where to find those off hand, but I've seen them used in videos that have been made since Sandy Hook, and the info has been consistent in all of them, so I'm betting it's pretty legit. The biggest worry is what is causing that violence. But I also worry about trying to target the combined media in that regard. I am one of many individuals that play some of the games that have been targeted for causing increased violence in our youth, and believe it or not, as big as most gamers will talk, they won't ever do anything beyond getting into a fist fight because someone told them to suck it in the school cafeteria. Most of the youth that are getting into serious violent trouble are involved in gangs or are high risk individuals to begin with. The things we need to focus on is making mental health care more readily available. This could include tax breaks to therapists and psychiatrists who provide free services to at-risk individuals, both youth and adult.

    The things that I find working with gun grabbers isn't just a well though out argument against their agendas, but it's also a well thought out plan of attack that will make them feel good. If you can find an argument that impacts both of those at the same time, then you're golden!
     
  13. akmewon

    akmewon clackamas Active Member

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    Just tell him this...So if we make certain guns illegal it will take those guns off the street and not readily available?On that note we should outlaw meth and heroin.
     
  14. Callidus98

    Callidus98 Portland Member

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    First, thank you for your effort. I agree with aslinged, women find ARs very easy to shoot. Low weight, recoil and adjustable length. Another point that I like is that civilians using firearms for pesonal defense face the same bad guys that our police face. So if our police are still using 30 round rifle magazines and 15 to 19 round pistol magazines why wouldn't we need the same thing.

    As far as statistics: FBI ? Crime Statistics
    Firearms and Crime Statistics
     
  15. SIG383

    SIG383 Graham, WA Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone!! I have been pouring over a lot of data and been taking a lot of notes to prepare for this. The senator is Nick Harper, 38th District. I'm registered to vote up north out of Marysville since I'm military and that's my home of record. Until I settle down for good, I'll keep it that way. I like the idea of using the Federalist Papers for my own knowledge. I plan on keeping it to FBI/DOJ statistics and the facts on what the actual difference is between a real assault rifle, such as my issued M4A1, and what the media and politicians believe an "assault weapon" is...lol. Also want to show him how fast one can do a magazine change, showing how a 10 round limit is of little use, etc... Also wanting to keep a few things ready in case I need some heavy hitting ammo. Again, thank you!!!!
     
  16. SIG383

    SIG383 Graham, WA Well-Known Member

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    Also hope to film it with my little Sony Bloggie camera, if not, at least get an audio recording of it.
     
  17. eternalphoenix64

    eternalphoenix64 Washougal, WA Member

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    I'd love to see that video/hear that audio if you can make it available. To go along with your showing the difference between an assault weapon and a scary black rifle, I would take these two images

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/firearms-images-products-422l.jpg

    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/firearms-images-products-446l-2.jpg

    And ask him to identify which is more deadly and why. When he gives his reasons, feel free to indicate to him that they are both the exact same rifle. The Ruger Mini-14 (I'm sure you knew that though), the latter being on Frankenstein's list, while the former, capable of the exact same destruction, is not.
     
  18. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    i would find his/her (because i dont know who that sen is) talking points and beat those to the ground. make sure that when you speak of facts you make sure they are facts. tell stories of people who have not had enough ammo in a righteous shooting and died because of it. also tell stories of people who hit enough to make them run but was unable to kill them after several shots.
     
  19. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    This is the sad part of having a meeting with a Senator or any politcian for that matter. They have their mind made up, they have their "facts" No matter what facts, figures, laws you bring to them, they know what's best for you.

    But the truth is the truth.
    Public officials of any kind take an oath to protect it's citizens rights under the constitution and bill of rights. Those are not subject to your opinion/interpretation.
    The 2nd Amendment is there for two things. To give the people the right to protect themselves, and to keep the balance of power in the middle. We the People have the power, We the People own this country.
    We the people will fight, and die for our God given rights just as we've done for the last 200 years. If you try to remove our rights under a disguise of safety or otherwise we will secure those rights by any means nessesary.
    Chicago has some of the country's most strict and unconstitution gun laws. It's also one of the most dangerous places in America with the highest murder rates.
    Lars Larsen recently had a new senator from Texas on his show. The senator was saying one of the scariest things he has seen in Washington DC is the complete ignorance of the policitians and how detached they are from America and it's people. They have no clue about the problems this country faces. When your in a position of power, and wealth for 20 years how can you? It's like a kid that grows up with millionaire parents. You will never know how a child in the slums of Detroit lives.

    If the laws should ever become injust, resistance becomes your duty. If I hear the Govt starts confiscating guns, people who oppose the rulers, it's time to escape and evade. Then go find those responsible.
    We need to get lists of all the politicians homes. If they are going to list for public view where I live because I have a permit to carry a firearm LEGALLY then I want to know where they live as well.

    This is a losing fight when they have the power. They have the only voice. There should be a term limit for congress and senators just like the president. How can someone know the needs of the people when they live the powerful, lawless, wealthy high life of a law maker?!

    There shouldn't even be a discussion. It's pretty cut and dry. We have the right. We need that right more than ever. The govt is making this country more unstable, more dangerous, and pushing us daily to the brink of collapse. We need every gun, bullet, God fearing American patriot we can get.
     
  20. Oathkeeper1775

    Oathkeeper1775 Coast Range Well-Known Member

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    Agree! This gun control debate morphed into existence just like an Alabama lawyer morphing into the Secretary of State.........!

    Given the character and disposition of the OP, and based on my own experiences when interacting with progressive legislature-members (which may have put an end to my career); it only serves to increase my respect for the OP and the other Patriots who, by their bravery have elevated themselves to the likes of our Founding Fathers and many other great Americans like Crispus Attucks, who stood up against tyranny without the benefits of anonymity.

    Thanks SIG383 and all the patriots!