Oregon Need help with ammunition business.

[The Courier]

The type 7 license seems to be the way to go. In my area I see people buying certain types of 9mm ammo at $17 per 50 and it occured to me they pay more for consistent brands so thats where I see the market slow production with tight specs at a reasonable price $17 for 9mm is well just crazy.

 

[Who The F R U]

**** @ AM Product's ****

"Generally speaking, you can ignore the DDTC"

Really,Really.................................... Damn dude bad advice,......Really ????

The fine is 1 million dollars and 10 years in jail retard.
ONLY if you get a exception from the commerce dept. can you not pay the $2250 for ITAR.
And that is only if you have not sold ANYTHING to LE or foreign govt's.
And you better have some serious keyboard Kung-Fu to get one from them.
I only know (3) 07's that have pulled it off and I have been doing this full time since 2003 as a 07/02.

So stop with the go straight to jail advice man.
For reals............... Your gonna get someone jammed up.

Your not here so i'm gonna have to punch the wall instead. Damm pull your head out of rectum.

 

[AMProducts]

**** @ AM Product's ****

"Generally speaking, you can ignore the DDTC"

Really,Really.................................... Damn dude bad advice,......Really ????

The fine is 1 million dollars and 10 years in jail retard.
ONLY if you get a exception from the commerce dept. can you not pay the $2250 for ITAR.
And that is only if you have not sold ANYTHING to LE or foreign govt's.
And you better have some serious keyboard Kung-Fu to get one from them.
I only know (3) 07's that have pulled it off and I have been doing this full time since 2003 as a 07/02.

So stop with the go straight to jail advice man.
For reals............... Your gonna get someone jammed up.

Your not here so i'm gonna have to punch the wall instead. Damm pull your head out of rectum.

*golf clap*

As a type 07 why are you selling to foreign governments? You need a type 08 for that (minimum, maybe a type 11), and state dept approval for export. Also, since when does State care about domestic sales to LE?

Lets read the part of the USML:

Category III—Ammunition/Ordnance
*(a) Ammunition/ordnance for the articles in Categories I and II of this section.

(b) Ammunition/ordnance handling equipment specifically designed or modified for the articles controlled in this category, such as, belting, linking, and de-linking equipment.

(c) Equipment and tooling specifically designed or modified for the production of defense articles controlled by this category.

(d) Components, parts, accessories, attachments and associated equipment specifically designed or modified for the articles in this category:

*(1) Guidance and control components for the articles in paragraph (a) of this category;

*(2) Safing, arming and fuzing components (including target detection and localization devices) for the articles in paragraph (a) of this category; and

(3) All other components, parts, accessories, attachments and associated equipment for the articles in paragraphs (a) through (c) of this category.

(e) Technical data (as defined in §120.10 of this subchapter) and defense services (as defined in §120.9 of this subchapter) directly related to the defense articles described in paragraphs (a) through (d) of this category. Technical data directly related to the manufacture or production of any defense articles described elsewhere in this category that are designated as Significant Military Equipment (SME) shall itself be designated SME.

(f) The following explains and amplifies the terms used in this category and elsewhere in this subchapter:

(1) The components, parts, accessories and attachments controlled in this category include, but are not limited to cartridge cases, powder bags (or other propellant charges), bullets, jackets, cores, shells (excluding shotgun shells), projectiles (including canister rounds and submunitions therefor), boosters, firing components therefor, primers, and other detonating devices for the defense articles controlled in this category.

(2) This category does not control cartridge and shell casings that, prior to export, have been rendered useless beyond the possibility of restoration for use as a cartridge or shell casing by means of heating, flame treatment, mangling, crushing, cutting or popping.

(3) Equipment and tooling in paragraph (c) of this category does not include equipment for hand-loading ammunition.

(4) The articles in this category include any end item, component, accessory, attachment, part, firmware, software, or system that has been designed or manufactured using technical data and defense services controlled by this category.

(5) The articles specifically designed or modified for military application controlled in this category include any article specifically developed, configured, or adapted for military application

If you read that and get all excited about (f)(1) it doesn't apply, because he is not manufacturing the cartridge case, the powder, the bullets, primers or anything else. He is strictly an assembler. Even then, by my reading of this chapter, I should be required to file, and get an EUC before I can sell you a hodgdon loading data book.

By all means, call State, I'm sure every time you call you will get a different answer. If he's in the business of making ammo for the domestic market, USML and DDTC should not apply because he is only assembling cartridges. If he was making the bullets/cases/primers/powder this is another matter.

And yes, by all means, do the due diligence, that's why it's called due diligence. I'm telling you from industry practice it's typically not required.

 

[Certaindeaf]

**** @ AM Product's ****

"Generally speaking, you can ignore the DDTC"

Really,Really.................................... Damn dude bad advice,......Really ????

The fine is 1 million dollars and 10 years in jail retard.
ONLY if you get a exception from the commerce dept. can you not pay the $2250 for ITAR.
And that is only if you have not sold ANYTHING to LE or foreign govt's.
And you better have some serious keyboard Kung-Fu to get one from them.
I only know (3) 07's that have pulled it off and I have been doing this full time since 2003 as a 07/02.

So stop with the go straight to jail advice man.
For reals............... Your gonna get someone jammed up.

Your not here so i'm gonna have to punch the wall instead. Damm pull your head out of rectum.

Damn, dude.. you're going to give yourself a heart attack. no reason to be insulting

 

[Who The F R U]

To sell to a foreign Govt. all you need is a a end-user cert. and State DPT approval for export. You don't even need a FFL.

But I'm sure you already knew that with all your dealings and such.
Please stop with your advice before someone follows it and goes to jail.

What's your FFL # ?
If you have one throw it out so we can use FFL Easy Check.

Try mine for practice.
9-93-009-07-8H-03636

You can run yours through here or mine and post it.
https://www.atfonline.gov/fflezcheck/

Either way the gauntlet has been thrown down and i think you are full of sheet that you have one or work for one,

**** As a matter of fact I'm calling you a outright LIAR and Fabricator *****
Prove me wrong................................................

If you are an FFL and operating under the belief's stated you will be in prison soon.

I've been here a while and fought more than my share of legal battle's with the fed's.( AND WON ) every time.

I get worked up over internet know it all's that don't know what the heck they are talking about.
Seen too many guy's follow bad advice and end up in jail.
Having a FFL is a serious thing and if you have one you need to KNOW the laws.
What some dimwit said is not going to cover it.

If i post something it's only because I know 100% it is factual.


So again PLEASE STOP really please stop.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
But then again I don't know what I'm talking about or anyone i'm just here on this site talking junk.
And I sure as hell didn't make and sell the 50 cal gun pod's for backwater that were used in Iraq.
+ I never made anything for Craft or Knew Chris ,Chad, Steve, or Bo....
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

[AMProducts]

**** As a matter of fact I'm calling you a outright LIAR and Fabricator *****
Prove me wrong................................................

You can get as spun up as you want. However the first rule of pissing contests, is you best be prepared to get covered in piss.

While I smile at the idea of you knocking so many holes in your house because of some words I wrote on a forum, that's not the standard of professionalism I adhere to. If that's how you wanna roll, go do it somewhere else. You said I was wrong, I made a counter argument, and now you're me "a liar and fabricator" and daring me to argue further with you? No thanks, I didn't bring my raincoat.

 

[The Courier]

Let's keep this professional everyone, I emailed the DDTC Response team their answers were... well lets just say I got a good chuckle out of it.
The funny part about all the phone calls and emails the only agency that has been promt and courteous was ATF, three different sections of the fire marshals office I have left messages with and no one has responded and its been a week.

 

[AMProducts]

Let's keep this professional everyone, I emailed the DDTC Response team their answers were... well lets just say I got a good chuckle out of it.
The funny part about all the phone calls and emails the only agency that has been promt and courteous was ATF, three different sections of the fire marshals office I have left messages with and no one has responded and its been a week.

Government people speak their own language, some of it transfers, much of it doesn't.
ATF is pretty good about getting back to you, because they're entirely self-funded. They have to support themselves from licensing and transfer taxes collected, as such they can actually be a pretty friendly resource.
The Fire Marshal is a busy guy, and you will have to drag him kicking and screaming to get anything done. My suggestion: Have a plan, include a site map, where you're going to store things, your magazine requirements and be sure to state that you will comply with NFPA 95 part 495.
SAAMI has a pub on it... http://www.saami.org/specifications...wnload/SAAMI_ITEM_202-Sporting_Ammunition.pdf
NFPA wants money to buy the code, if you google around you may be able to find it in PDF. Like right here: http://hamyarenergy.com/static/fckimages/files/NFPA/Hamyar Energy NFPA 495 - 2006.pdf

 

[The Courier]

Signed up for free access to NFPA easy to abide by and provided the Group R section I was looking for. The Fire Marshals office got back to me today and basically stated what I already knew, which is they have no involvement with the storage of smokeless propellant as long as it meets Oregon fire code and NFPA standards. No permits are required in Oregon as your FFL serves as the pemit according to OFM.

 

[oremike]

I just did exactly what you are planing and have a newly minted Class 06 FFL. You are welcome to contact me off list and I will help as I can. One thing I will say is part time didn't work for me. As well as the government fees and taxes the costs of business is expensive, want to process credit cards 3-5% web store front more money a web site ..... boxes , tape and on and on. I got my liability insurance through the NRA affiliate program. The gloom and doom of all the money out has been over shadowed by my little business taking off right out of the gate. But as was said before you can't sell it if you don't make it. So now I run my press all week long to try to keep up with what I sell at Gun Shows on the week ends.

 

[AMProducts]

I just did exactly what you are planing and have a newly minted Class 06 FFL. You are welcome to contact me off list and I will help as I can. One thing I will say is part time didn't work for me. As well as the government fees and taxes the costs of business is expensive, want to process credit cards 3-5% web store front more money a web site ..... boxes , tape and on and on. I got my liability insurance through the NRA affiliate program. The gloom and doom of all the money out has been over shadowed by my little business taking off right out of the gate. But as was said before you can't sell it if you don't make it. So now I run my press all week long to try to keep up with what I sell at Gun Shows on the week ends.

It's good to hear a success story these days.