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need help obtaining oregon concealed carry permit

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by perp6969, Mar 6, 2014.

  1. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    Need help in regards to getting concealed carry permit. from reading the law seems i am in a no mans land. currently legal to purchase and possess handgun under federal and oregon state law i am not a felon. however attended diversion program like 14 years ago. am not eligible for expungement of arrest for PCS(not conviction) due to trimet non payment ticket conviction. expungement law excludes traffic tickets from preventing the expungement but not one for trimet ticket. would have to wait 7 more years to b eligible to expunge PCS arrest an receive concealed carry permit. other option is seeking relief from prohibition from purchasing or possessing firearms under ors 166.274. have talked to lawyer who wants 750 dollars to file motion and he says i am qualified to apply for it given my circumstances. i would like to do it myself however cannot find under the relief law how it applies to me. i feel kind of bad going back to attorney for free legal advice for specifics on what area of the relief law applies to me as i intend to file the motion myself. oregon concealed carry application law ors 166.291 specifically states if i have my rghts under ors 166.274 restored the diverion cannot keep me from obtaining a concealed carry permit.

    here is what ors 166.274 says

    Relief from prohibition against possessing or purchasing firearm
    • fees
    (1) Except as provided in subsection (11) of this section, a person barred from possessing or purchasing a firearm may file a petition for relief from the bar in accordance with subsection (2) of this section if:
    (a) The person is barred from possessing a firearm under ORS 166.250 (Unlawful possession of firearms) (1)(c)(A) or (C) or 166.270 (Possession of weapons by certain felons); or
    (b) The person is barred from purchasing a firearm under ORS 166.470 (Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms) (1)(a), (b) or (g).

    in checking the laws ors 166.274 refers too i cannot see how i am eligible to seek relief to obtain concealed carry permit. im assuming that it has to be specifically one of the parts of the laws referred too

    (ORS 166.250 (Unlawful possession of firearms) (1)(c)(A) or (C),
    166.270 (Possession of weapons by certain felons),
    ORS 166.470 (Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms) (1)(a), (b) or (g)

    i am not a felon. im also not excluded from purchasing and possessing a handgun. im only ineligble to obtain concealed carry permit due to diversion.


    to me it looks like if i was a convicted felon or had other reasons the law excluded me from purchasing or possessing a handgun i could obtain relief under this act and qualify to obtain said permit.

    but since i am not a felon, or excluded for the other reasons from purchasing or possessing a handgun i cannot request relief solely to be obtain concealed carry permit.

    any lawyers or lawyer wannabes who can explain to me or anyone with personal knowledge in this area plez help. does the law to seek relief apply to me. if it doesnt can i still seek relief based to wanting to obtain concealed carry permit or some other reason.
     
  2. orygun

    orygun West Linn Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Ask the civil division of your County Sheriff.
     
  3. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Sound advice to start with. :thumbup:
     
  4. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    I personally would hire the attorney to file the motion for you, this is what they do, all day everyday. Yeah it sucks to pay someone 750 dollars to shuffle papers but if things don't go smoothly you will want a expert to deal with the potential unexpected. I am sure it would be pretty straightforward though based on the information you provided. As you know, Oregon provides an avenue to squash this, just need to go through the steps.

    Just my .02...


    Forgot to ask... When you say diversion, what exactly are you talking about ?

    If you are talking about 166.291 (L) This specifically relates to a controlled substance charge. I am unclear if controlled substances were involved in your diversion ?

    Anyway, I personally wouldn't play with this and would hire a competent attorney.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2014
  5. Thebastidge

    Thebastidge 10411 NE Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98662 Well-Known Member

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    Oregon requires a clean record for 4 years. If you completed a drug diversion and had no conviction, you would seem to be in the clear with no expungment:

    ORS 166.291 - Issuance of concealed handgun license - 2011 Oregon Revised Statutes

    (L) Has not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program, except this disability does not operate to exclude a person if:

    (B)The person has completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion) and has not been convicted of violating ORS 475.864 (Unlawful possession of marijuana) (3);
     
  6. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    been working all weekend, will get back on tuesday with the details and all of u thanx for advice , LOL, situation would b funny cept is happening to me . did talk to attorney again. it isnt hopeless but will b difficult, esp since is in multonomah county i need to file motion in.
     
  7. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    gonna reply to a couple of u here. it was a drug diversion program 18 years ago. partying with a few people in hotel room. police called. they find a little cocaine and no one cops to it(yes we were all partying). they charge everyone with possession of it. rather than risk possible felony convction we all take diversion.

    if you look at ors 166.291 (L) it says

    Has not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances OR
    participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program, EXCEPT
    this disability does not operate to exclude a person if:

    (B)The person has completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion) and has not been convicted of violating ORS 475.864 (Unlawful possession of marijuana)

    Section B is referring to a marijuana diversion program only, from when marijuana possesion was much more serious. my diversion is a different one therefore i am barred from getting concealed carry permit with my arrest and diversion record showing.

    there are two ways in oregon i can clear this up and get permit. first way is to get record expunged. i never did it in the past because employers only ask about convictions. i have always been a believer in the 2nd amendment, though except for a period of maybe a year or two in florida i have not been a firearms owner. given todays political climate, and forces trying to make firearms ownership difficult if not downright illegal i thought my best way to support the 2nd amendment was to purchase a fiream, get my conclealed carry permit and become more active in the cause.

    i investigated getting my arrest(including diversion) record expunged. to do this you have to have a record clear of all convictions for 10 years prior to the request. traffic citations dont count. i dont have any traffic tickets on my record however i do have a ticket on trimet because i forgot to pay fare. its not even a misdeamenor, i paid fine but it counts as conviction so i cannot get record expunged for 7 more years LOL.

    second way to get concealed carry permit is by filing motion to have firearms rights restored. did go back to attorney for more info on motion. he did say the law the way it is written does not specifically apply to me. he also said he has an awesome argument on why the judge should hear the motion anyway. i think it is pretty good argument too. i will go more into it tomorrow, the argument he proposes when im not so beat from work. it basically it points out stupidity in the law, allowing convicted felons to have hearings to restore there gun rights in oregon when they are prohibited from owning or possessing firearms under federal law and denying the same hearing to a person who is not a felon and not barred from possessing or purchasing firearms.
     
  8. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    been plugging away at this for awhile. going to request hearing myself. think im going to be ok with my concerns. first i am pretty sure that judge has to consider my motion. the attorney i talked to mentioned proportionality clause in the constitution should sway judge. i found a better argument. attorney didnt mention it however maybe he didnt want to give it away for me to file on my own. the statute as i said before does not specifically say i am entitled to the hearing. however it also in no way says im barred from the hearing either. i found under ors 174, specifically ors 174.030 the holy grail lol.

    174.030¹
    Construction favoring natural right to prevail

    Where a statute is equally susceptible of two interpretations, one in favor of natural right and the other against it, the former is to prevail.


    As natural rights regarding posessing firearms and such are in the oregon constitution,


    Constitution of Oregon: 2011 Version

    ARTICLE I



    BILL OF RIGHTS

    Section 27. Right to bear arms; military subordinate to civil power. The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence [sic] of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]

    i believe the judge has to allow me to have hearing.

    as far as how it goes he can still deny me though i think my argument though the qualification under the law is to have rights restored is pretty general, as seen below.

    166.274¹
    Relief from prohibition against possessing or purchasing firearm


    Section (7) If the petitioner seeks relief from the bar on possessing or purchasing a firearm, relief shall be granted when the petitioner demonstrates, by clear and convincing evidence, that the petitioner does not pose a threat to the safety of the public or the petitioner.

    17 years since arrest for pcs and diversion, like 14 years since duii, and nothing since except a trimet ticket. think i have a pretty good chance unlesss the district attorney can dig up some crap on me lol, working on my motion prob file it in the next 30 days or so. i let u know how it goes.
     
  9. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    forgot on part lol , natural rights part in bill of rights above

    ARTICLE I



    BILL OF RIGHTS



    Sec. 1. Natural rights inherent in people
    2. Freedom of worship
    3. Freedom of religious opinion
    4........



    Section 27. Right to bear arms; military subordinate to civil power. The people shall have the right to bear arms for the defence [sic] of themselves, and the State, but the Military shall be kept in strict subordination to the civil power[.]
     
  10. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that Oregon Supreme Court limited the scope of this section.
    http://org.law.rutgers.edu/publications/lawjournal/issues/37_4_Comments/Rome.pdf

     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
  11. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    So, first off, you mentioned you were never convicted. When reading 166.291 a common theme in the "you may be denied if's" seem that you must actually be convicted.

    I will dive a little into my personal life. My father was arrested under false pretenses when I was much younger. The DA chose not to prosecute and the lying party confessed. His arrest is still on his record. Bull I know. He received his CHL to problem. There was a segment of the CHL paper for written explanations of arrests and what not. This was Benton County.

    Anyway, have you tried to get your CHL? or are you just afraid you will be denied?

    Ether way I have hilighted all the requirements in 166.291 below and underlined what can get you denied but bulded the key words in those denial requirements.



    166.291 reads:


    The sheriff of a county, upon a persons application for an Oregon concealed handgun license, upon receipt of the appropriate fees and after compliance with the procedures set out in this section, shall issue the person a concealed handgun license if the person:
    (a)(A) Is a citizen of the United States; or

    (B) Is a legal resident alien who can document continuous residency in the county for at least six months and has declared in writing to the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services the intent to acquire citizenship status and can present proof of the written declaration to the sheriff at the time of application for the license;

    (b) Is at least 21 years of age;

    (c) Is a resident of the county;

    (d) Has no outstanding warrants for arrest;

    (e) Is not free on any form of pretrial release;

    (f) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by any one of the following:

    (A) Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the State Department of Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency of another state if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (B) Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (C) Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by law enforcement, community college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association or a law enforcement agency if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (D) Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, reserve law enforcement officers or any other law enforcement officers if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (E) Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a handgun through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

    (F) Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state, unless the license has been revoked; or

    (G) Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a firearms instructor certified by a law enforcement agency or the National Rifle Association if handgun safety was a component of the course;

    (g) Has never been convicted of a felony or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295 (Effect of mental disease or defect), of a felony;

    (h) Has not been convicted of a misdemeanor or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295 (Effect of mental disease or defect), of a misdemeanor within the four years prior to the application;

    (i) Has not been committed to the Oregon Health Authority under ORS 426.130 (Court determination of mental illness);

    (j) Has not been found to be mentally ill and is not subject to an order under ORS 426.130 (Court determination of mental illness) that the person be prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm as a result of that mental illness;

    (k) Has been discharged from the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for more than four years if, while a minor, the person was found to be within the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for having committed an act that, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony or a misdemeanor involving violence, as defined in ORS 166.470 (Limitations and conditions for sales of firearms);

    (L) Has not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program, except this disability does not operate to exclude a person if:

    (A) The person has been convicted only once of violating ORS 475.864 (Unlawful possession of marijuana) (3) and has not completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion); or

    (B) The person has completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion) and has not been convicted of violating ORS 475.864 (Unlawful possession of marijuana) (3);

    (m) Is not subject to a citation issued under ORS 163.735 (Citation) or an order issued under ORS 30.866 (Action for issuance or violation of stalking protective order), 107.700 (Short title) to 107.735 (Duties of State Court Administrator) or 163.738 (Effect of citation);

    (n) Has not received a dishonorable discharge from the Armed Forces of the United States; and

    (o) Is not required to register as a sex offender in any state.
     
  12. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    If u look at section (L) says ....or participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program

    i have not been convicted of offense involving controlled substance but i HAVE been to court ordered diversion program, and they werent the diversion programs for marijuana mentioned in (A) and (B) following section (11) so i will get denied my record shows the arrest AND diversion. I could get arrest/diversion expunged except i am prevented from that for seven more years becuase of a ticket i got on trimet when i forgot to purchase a ticket LOL. hence my other option is the motion im going to submit to have firearms rights restored. since my arrest for PCS, and a DUI were like 17 and 14 years ago respectively, im not a felon, im employed, have never gotten n any other trouble since then, an the only reason i cant expunge arrest is due to a stinking trimet ticket, not even a misdeamenor, the judge cuts me some slack an grants my motion.
     
  13. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    Deleted for not being correct. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  14. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    Deleted another for being incorrect. :)


    Eagle
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
  15. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    i went thru it it FD thanx, alot of legalese. but it concerned couple of felons with guns and the barring of them from possessing firearms an such. i am not a felon so i can possess and purchase firearms legally . i can also legally open carry, cept in the areas when they ban it like portland unless u have a concealed carry permit. i just want to have the hearing to enable me to get my concealed carry permit. i did find one sentence in that link u provided interesting.

    However, the court also stated that these
    cases support the proposition that the legislature may permissibly regulate
    the “manner of possession” and “use” of arms protected by article I, section .


    im not to worried, i think im okay in the hearing, unless the district attorney has some court decision where it says that possessing firearms may be under natural rights in the constitution, but a concealed carry permit isnt.
     
  16. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    section (B) says

    (B) The person has completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion) and has not been convicted of violating ORS 475.864 (Unlawful possession of marijuana) (3);

    the operative words in sec(B) are "under ORS 135.907 (Notification of availability of diversion)


    i went to a different diversion not ors135.907 so section (L) applies because nethier sec (A) or (B) applies to me
     
  17. 1337BaldEagle

    1337BaldEagle Earth Active Member

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    Ya I got that. I went back and reread, then deleted my comments but you had already started typing :rolleyes:
     
  18. perp6969

    perp6969 portland New Member

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    than for your help anyway man. i keep u posted on how my motion goes. think the judge has to hear motion, just he can still deny me , it is anti gun multonomah county LOL.
     
  19. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    Just fill in the forms to apply for your permit and see what happens. Then, if denied, they should tell you exactly why and you can then address their specific concerns. You should not have to do your own background check on yourself, let them do it as part of the process. For all you know, it will go through A-OK.
     
    Stomper likes this.
  20. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I didn't imply that it directly affected you. I just wanted to caution you about relying on "keep and bear arms" in a broad sense when making your claim.