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Need an ak gunsmith in washington state

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Gunsmithing' started by peetar, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Ive got an ak74 that needs the rear trunnion rivets re done. I think they are weak and need to be removed and replaced.
    Does anyone know an ak gunsmith in the washington area that i could use?

    Northwest armory doesnt have the same guy anymore, he went to do his own thing.
     
  2. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    I'm in Kingston. PM me if your interested
     
  3. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    PM inbound!
     
  4. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    2013-06-22%2015.54.31.jpg
     
  5. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Update to this...
    Turns out that it might be more than the rivets. The gun is terribly overgassed. How do I know this?
    I replaced the recoil spring and fired a couple of 5.45 rounds through her.

    Crazy amount of recoil and you can hear/feel the rear trunnion getting slammed hard by the bolt carrier group. I guess I need a new barrel. :(
    Whoever built this thing probably drilled the gas port too big. Or....the barrel was one of the ones on the market that were out of spec...causing recalls.

    It is definitely a Bulgy parts kit with American barrel and ohio ordnance ITM or whatever reciever. Other than this super catastrophic problem the rifle looks pretty nice. :)
    Arsenal furniture is pretty. :)

    More pics...
    2013-06-22%2016.21.04.jpg


    2013-06-22%2015.50.50.jpg


    I guess people just cant be trusted anymore to not sell lemons. There is no way after shooting this even once that you would think the rrifle is OK. The recoil on a 74 is legenday for being very light or almost non-existant. This thing kicks sharply and the seller HAD TO KNOW there was something wrong. I should have looked at this with a more critical eye but I don't really know much about AKs. Had I known this had the overgassing problem (or what to look for) I would definitely not have bought it.

    Seriously...I would NEVER sell a rifle to anyone that had this kind of problem. It could be dangerous. I am going to give the people who sold it to me a piece of my mind at the next gun show in Puyallup. (edit) Or at least let them know they sold me junk-- They are there every show and sell a ton of parts. I am going to hit all my friends up and warn them to be careful doing business with these folks. They sold me a 650 dollar parts kit, basically because it has to be worked on to be made safe. The barrel is worthless and must be replaced or somehow welded and re-drilled. Live and learn I guess. I am not shooting this thing again until it's fixed.
    The thing is, I have seen AKs before with a gap in that same spot. I had no idea that this could happen to an AK. Next time I will know to look for this problem.
     
  6. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    I wanted an AK 74 in 5.45 not an AK47. They are completely different animals.

    Still, I am already aware that I got boned. Also, there is no such thing as a SAR1 for 400 dollars.
     
  7. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Sorry, but the SAR is a disgusting POS compared to a well build Bulgarian. I've built many and know the difference. I'm an AK snob BTW...lol
     
    peetar and (deleted member) like this.
  8. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    So I am looking for a barrel now. Might need a new reciever as well. Maybe I should switch this to a sidefolder. Hmmmm.
     
  9. 308

    308 ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Platinum Supporter Silver Supporter

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    I have an underfolder from one of my Polish kits if you want to go that way. No side folders though.

    NDS has nice receivers.
    page2
     
  10. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Thanks for the info and offer. :) I will let you know if I decide to go with underfolder.
     
  11. humdrum

    humdrum Lakewood Active Member

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    Don't all or most AK's have bleed-off holes drilled into the gas block to prevent over-gassing? I'm no expert on the '74's so I have to ask. Is it possible that spring weights for the '47 and '74's are different? If one were to install a "lighter" weight spring meant for a 7.62 rifle into a 5.45 rifle the increase in felt recoil would be jarring.
    Is the rear trunnion moving and loose? Or is it just the stock? Is the dust cover becoming ill-fitting? If it truly is the trunnion, it could simply be improperly installed or soft rivets. Or worse, stretching of the receiver holes due to improper heat-treating of the sheet metal around the holes. Either way, the movement should be noticed against the dust cover.
    If aesthetics are not the issue, and it is proven that the rivet holes in the receiver are not rivet ovals, re-press the trunnion rivets in a brake-press and be done. They will be flattened, but secure. Please keep us posted as to your diagnosis and method of repair. Sorry for being long-winded, but I love AK issues!
    (On a second look at the picture it does appear that the trunnion has shifted to the rear, but the holes don't seem to appear stretched. Could just be soft rivets or over sized trunnion holes, but again, I'm no expert; just curious, and thinking in print)
     
  12. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    The spring rates are the same I believe. I went ahead and installed a brand new spring from Arsenal. It had no effect whatsoever. The recoil is intense.
    No, it is neither. The trunnion has moved rearward but is no longer moving or loose. I tried wobbling it but it has not moved.

    The dust cover is ill fitting. It has been bent a tiny bit and if the rear trunnion moves any more it will surely pop off. Soft rivets could have something to do with it but the recoil on this rifle is kinda nuts. Especially because 74s are supposed to have no recoil or very, very little. You can feel the thing slamming the rear trunnion HARD. The barrel is made in the USA (of course) so that is the most likely reason. It was either a faulty US barrel (of which there were some years ago) or the hole was simply drilled too big. Soft rivets may also play a role but regardless the barrel is definitely overgassed. I can't see any other reason for such recoil.

    Thanks for your curiosity and input. I will keep ya updated as to the exact cause of this. If it is the barrel, as I suspect, I will obviously not just re-do the rivets as that will probably do no good. Also, it kinda sucks to have a 74 in this caliber with this much recoil. Defeats the purpose of having a 74 to begin with. Live and learn. :)
     
  13. humdrum

    humdrum Lakewood Active Member

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    According to AKBuilder.com, and a few other quick searches, the correct size for the angled Romanian style AK-47 is 0.1825". The Bulgarian AK-74 on the other hand, uses a 0.077" for the right-angle drilled blocks on those models. So that leads me to think that the AK-74 could indeed be over-gassed if drilled with the wrong bit.
    How comfortable are you with pulling the gas-block on your rifle?
     
  14. rdb241

    rdb241 Puyallup Washington Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    I agree with humdrum. The rifle is over gased. Before you start tearing your rifle apart. Try drilling a holes in the gas tube and see if that does not relieve some preasure. Also, install a recoil buffer so the rear trunion is not getting slammed so hard. If that does not work then yes I would replace the barrel. I am over here in Puyallup and have all the tooling to do what ever you need to do. Pressing a barrel, rear trunion removal, rivets, what ever. If the receiver has issues, then you can buy one already made or go with a flat and make your own receiver.
     
  15. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    Don't AK74s vent from the gas block not the tube? If so drilling holes in the tube wouldn't have any effect at all. AKMs vent from the gas block, not to prevent over gasing but to actually vent the gas. AK47s vent from holes in the gas tube, and I believe AK74s vent from the block like an AKM.
     
  16. humdrum

    humdrum Lakewood Active Member

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    Who's to say they (whoever Peetar bought it from at the show) didn't drill an oversized gas-port in the barrel, then mate a non-vented gas tube onto a non-vented gas-block? Could happen...
    It's certainly hard to cover all the possibilities without seeing the rifle in person.
     
  17. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Yep, that is what is probably happening. AK74s do not have a way to vent the gas block as far as I know. The pressure to push the piston is developed inside of the gas block before the vent holes and tube, right? The tube is only a guide and holds no pressure as far as I know. This is the same on both 47s and 74s. I am not sure if there even is such a thing as a gas block being vented except for the vent holes on the block or on the gas tube that would be after where the piston sits before it's charged with hot gas. As far as I know, the gas slams into the piston and it begins it's rearward travel immediately because the gas comes in the form of a pulse...or tiny explosion...THEN it moves past the holes and can vent a bit. If the gas hole itself is drilled too big, those vent holes would be of no use as the pressure is too much immediately. I think of it as an explosion of pressure that instantly propels the piston.

    someone drilling an oversized gas-port into the barrel is what I was saying all along. I think that is what the problem is. The only other way I could see a fix is to cut a relief channel into the piston itsself to create a blow-by situation (like on a car piston) that would release the pressure BEFORE the piston travelled past the gas tube/gas block vents and relieved pressure on thier own. I would rather just rebuild it than start hacking the hell out of it though.... I am already out the cash from being an ignorant AK buyer. :(


    I don't think the gas tube being vented makes any difference in how hard the piston is driven (which begs the question--why is it vented at all?). I saw a gas tube on a 47 that didn't even reach all the way to the gas block. Talk about vented! The 47 still functined flawlessly because the gap was smaller than the piston so the piston slid right by it. The gas TUBE is simply a guide for the piston to slide inside. Anyway, this is just my 2 cents. I am by no means an expert on AKs. I just started getting into them. :)
     
  18. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Also, I just realized that when looking at the adjustable gas piston mechanisms on both the M240B and the M249 SAW, the gas decrease / increase knob vents gas at the space before the piston flat-top. Basically in the area between the piston and the wall in front of it....in an engine that would be the combustion chamber.

    I know there is a mini cavity in AKs as well that the gas comes up from the barrel into--causing it to build pressure immediately and drive the piston rearward.

    In the M240B or M249 SAW, the gas adjustment is meant to only be used when the gas vent hole has been clogged with carbon from constant firing. There is an audible change in rate of fire when the gas vent gets clogged. You turn the knob and it changes the size of the gas port ...The key -in my mind-is where it's venting the gas. It is venting it at the piston top or "crown" to relieve excess pressure. At least I think that's right.
     
  19. peetar

    peetar Kitsap County Active Member

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    Well, I got the reciever and it looks like Egan is going to be helping me out sometime soon. This is gonna be an awesome AK105 build. Reciever is a NDS2 with reinforcing plate from Nodak Spud.
    I got a populated bulgarian hammer forged chrome lined barrel from Kvar. A folding rear trunnion for a 4.5mm pin. I can re-use the folding buttstock from my arsenal SLR. I got a cleaning rod from an AMD65 for it. Got the barrel shroud / brake-looking thingy from a guy off arfcom so it doesn't look retarded and I can SBR it later if I move to a different state or they pass the SBR law here.
    Sucks that I paid for a partial parts kit but I definitely learned my lesson.

    Will post pics when Egan is done with it. Then there is no more gun parts buying for awhile.

    I will need advice on how to finish it. What type of coating.
     
  20. eganx

    eganx Kingston WA Active Member

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    Dude...its time to post pics. I want to see that gun again.