Need Advice for B-I-L Whose Head Isn't Right

[anonEmouse]

Sorry if this gets a bit long but I think the context for this is important. My B-I-L lives near Gladstone and works near PDX. Over the last several years he has become more and more concerned about the violence around Portland and what he has to drive through every day. A while back he and his wife decided they wanted to get their CHL and I helped them do that through a friend who is an NRA instructor. It took months before he could get an appointment for his permit and by that time he had purchased a Sig P320. Last August he finally received his CHL. However, until last weekend he has never taken it out of the box. I assumed his apprehension was largely due to being a first-time gun owner with no previous experience. I encouraged him to come to the range with me so we could spend some time with very basic fundamentals and get a few shots downrange. This we did a week ago yesterday.

His hands were already shaking when he showed up at the house. It was then he told me that all his life he has suffered from anxiety, something I had not known for the previous 30-years. We sat at the table and went over the basics of safe gun handling several times. I noticed repeatedly how his anxiety caused him to fumble with rather than confidently handle the gun. He wasn't doing anything wrong, it's just that his mind was running at 99% with nervous energy and it showed up in his hands.

Once at the range, he listened to my instructions and managed to put well over 50-rounds downrange, his hands still shaking. Of course, he set an unrealistic goal for his shooting performance the first time out. He did reasonably well, but accuracy was not the focus that day. I just wanted to get him over his intimidation and get shots downrange. No pressure.

Back at the house, I showed him how to break down and clean his gun, once again noting his shaking hands and fumbling dexterity. His anxiety has him trying way too hard and overthinking everything he's doing. This substantially interferes with not only his mechanics, but it became apparent to me that his head isn't right about carrying and all that goes with it. Clues about his thinking include an over-eagerness to be ready to shoot a "bad guy." I don't mean he wants to go "hunting" or anything like that. Rather, it's as though he thinks the threat is imminent at the moment. If I had to guess, I suspect that for the first time in his life he's truly scared, doesn't know how to control it because of his anxiety, and is reacting emotionally; a combination that could result in really bad things if he doesn't get a handle on it.

The day after our trip to the range he calls me to ask what I thought of him taking his gun with him to visit his daughter in San Diego. I strongly suggested he leave it at home informing him that Ca. is not "gun-friendly." He claimed he had looked up Ca. law and he could keep it unloaded and in their motor home. I strongly suggested he not do that and just leave it at home. I don't know what he decided, but I hope he listened.

My concern isn't with the mechanics as they can be taught. Rather, my concern is that his head just isn't right, and that could mean susceptibility to bad judgment. While I'm not an authority, I see an underlying over-active fear driving his thinking to questionable reactions. He once commented that if he was in a building and someone hit him that he could go out to his truck and get his gun and go back and confront the one who hit him. I immediately told him that's called "pre-meditation" and he'd likely be in jail the rest of his life. I have not heard anything like that since, but I don't know how deeply it sank in.

Once he gets back from Ca. I plan on trying to convince him that he's just not ready to carry and needs to get serious and extensive training. That training must include a focus on mental preparedness and judgment over just the mechanics of shooting. I will try to convince him to start carrying a non-lethal alternative such as pepper spray until he has that training and has his mind under control. What I need are people near PDX I can send him to that can actually help him. Lots of people are well qualified to teach new shooters. I'm looking for someone who can help him with his head...if he can be helped. If it turns out that he is unable to get his head straight he'll need to hear that from a qualified instructor and be supported by his family.

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[Knobgoblin]

My .02

Firearms training is necessary, but I would offer the advice that some type of hand to hand training is almost more important.
You are describing what sounds to me like a timid person, which is fine. But that needs to be overcome if carrying a gun is the goal. Getting slapped around and thrown on the mats in a gym will help with any anxiety ( I think). Even a boxing class will chase the jitters and flinchies away pretty quickly.

Anybody else who wants to correct me can chime in .

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Fear based thinking , can lead to difficulties.
One should not let a moment of frustration , turn into a lifetime of regret.

It is next to impossible to change someone's mind...if they ain't ready or open to a different way of thinking.
It is also wise to remember that a change of thinking happens on the other person's timetable and not yours.

I would encourage your B-I-L to know :
The best way to survive a threat is to avoid it.
Andy

 

[TTSX]

He's not ready for the responsibility, clearly. Is he can't get it together at the range, he'll be so much worse of in a live scenario that his fists might be a better option. Or a rape whistle.

Also, he needs to better understand laws before getting himself in potentially boiling hot water over internet information

 

[solv3nt]

It sounds like you're assessment is spot on. I would not carry if my hands were shaking with anxiety just cleaning my gun. If he doesn't know when to use it, or how to avoid conflict, it's very likely his gun will he used against him if he decides to draw.

On top of that, if he isn't carrying condition 0, I have reservations that he will be able to rack the slide to make it hot before having the gun swiped from his shakey hands.

Carrying a firearm is only a small part of the equation. Knowing when to use it, how to avoid conflict, and how to deploy it safely are all equally important.

First and foremost, he needs to be able to shoot a gun without shaking. Second, he needs to start to evaluate his surroundings and scenarios. Good luck.

 

[solv3nt]

If he's dead set on carrying, I strongly recommend he do some IPSC or equivalent. Practice with the draw, target acquisition and threat removal is not only fun, but will provide muscle memory.

 

[anonEmouse]

Thanks for the replies. He's 6'8" and played semi-pro ball well into his 50's. He's been a jock all his life. Other than the knocks on the court, I don't think he's ever been in a fight or had to deal with the adrenaline/fear that naturally comes with confrontation. We're both in our 60s now and hands-on grappling for someone of his build with no experience is a reach.

He's not one to give up on something he's committed to just because it's hard. Getting proper training for his head seems the primary issue here. I'll look closely at IPSC, as I'm unfamiliar with it at the moment. I tried to draw an analogy between his learning to bounce a basketball long before he could sink 3-pointers at will, and learning a completely new skill set in self-defense. He seemed to understand the premise, even if still impatient. Can you recommend someone to get him in touch with fairly locally who might be able to help him?

 

[Ura-Ki]

I suspect that for the first time in his life he's truly scared, doesn't know how to control it because of

I suspect THIS is the root of the issues!
I'm thinking that this person has never had a fight in his life, never had to face a beating, and is flat out terrified at the thought of having to defend himself and his family. This happens more then we think, a dude who has managed to avoid conflict for the most part is suddenly confronted with the realities that in todays world, your pretty much on your own, and with the general obtuse attitudes and quick tempered responses to the slightest provocation, ether real or perceived, this leads to an awful lot of folks who have finally realized that their safety is now firmly in their own hands, and they are not prepared or ready for all that this entails!

Good on you for taking the time to TEACH, and having the patience to keep it up, I think your on the right track here and like my Good Friend Andy pointed out above, he will learn what he needs to know in his own good time! I would continue to focus on the basics, getting him more comfortable with a gun and shooting, and continue to discuss the when and when not to shoot and all that goes with it! Focus on avoiding a problem and then de-escalating a situation if possible should be tops on the list of things to teach, and to get the hot headedness ( Which is the manifest of fear) converted into more productive actions that don't always involve drawing or shooting at a perceived threat! Remember, some people come off as very aggressive with out really meaning to be, some are quite forceful sounding,, but it's just ( Mostly) bluster, and might not escalate to a potentially lethal response, THIS is something that needs to be learned, and it's going to take some time! LEARN to read people and intent, your survival is now entirely on you!

 

[solv3nt]

I'd start off with a discussion on the reality of what happens after a shooting, even a legally justified shooting will likely incur handcuffs and possibly a night in the pokie.

Check out the competitions at Tri-County for IPSC or IDPA; they're both based carrying concealed.

 

[solv3nt]

LEARN to reed people

That sounds like some John Wick level maneuvers, but he did it with a pencil.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Good on you for recognizing it.
Most people are not "gun people" despite owning one or a few guns. Carrying a firearm for self protection is a truly engaged type of lifestyle.

Situational awareness, understandings of the law and liability and lastly, a decent amount of self engaged practice that no law, class or forced bureaucratic legislation forcing end users/carriers to undergo can magically accomplish. Its something a person truly have to make second nature and take seriously. It has to be an active habit for it to be of practical, safe use.

I think in time his nerves will settle. Practice and self discovery will help. Guide him the best you can. Sounds like you're doing everything right rather than hyping him up which is GOOD. I too would hate to hear he got too eager and used deadly force in an encounter where it was not needed, thus landing him in jail or in the ground himself.
He doesn't have any road rage issues right?

I have a few friends that off the road are great.. but the way they drive and treat other drivers, I dont want them carrying while on the road and Ive mentioned that to them. Deaf ears received the message however.

 

[anonEmouse]

He doesn't have any road rage issues right?

Not that I'm aware of. But I was unaware of his anxiety even after 30-years.

 

[solv3nt]

Not that I'm aware of. But I was unaware of his anxiety even after 30-years.

A gun can cause all sorts of other anxiety. You're holding an object that is similar to my wife, it's incredibly loud and can kill readily. The report alone to a new shooter can cause shaking. I've got a buddy that's like 6'3" that can only shoot so many 9mm rounds before his nerves get to him.

 

[anonEmouse]

A gun can cause all sorts of other anxiety. You're holding an object that is similar to my wife, it's incredibly loud and can kill readily. The report alone to a new shooter can cause shaking. I've got a buddy that's like 6'3" that can only shoot so many 9mm rounds before his nerves get to him.

I think that's part of this. My wife jumps at every round that's fired. Exposure may help with some of this, but it's his head I'm concerned with. I will continue to work with him at the range and as opportunities to discuss judgment and responsibility appear. I think professional training in these areas is critical and primary. I can play a support role in that.

 

[papersoldier]

Clues about his thinking include an over-eagerness to be ready to shoot a "bad guy."

In my experience this is a pretty common mode of thinking for a lot of new gun owners. Since the gun and the thought of carrying it is new and exciting to them, they want to immediately jump to it as a solution for any "defensive" situation. I think the most important thing here is to try to squash that line of thought immediately. You should tell your BIL that his firearm should be the very last option when it comes to self defense. Avoidance, fleeing (if possible) or giving a robber your wallet and phone are all preferable to having to shoot someone. Deadly force should only be applied when all other avenues have either been exhausted, are untenable or have failed to remove the threat to your life or the life of another.

 

[anonEmouse]

In my experience this is a pretty common mode of thinking for a lot of new gun owners. Since the gun and the thought of carrying it is new and exciting to them, they want to immediately jump to it as a solution for any "defensive" situation. I think the most important thing here is to try to squash that line of thought immediately. You should tell your BIL that his firearm should be the very last option when it comes to self defense. Avoidance, fleeing (if possible) or giving a robber your wallet and phone are all preferable to having to shoot someone. Deadly force should only be applied when all other avenues have either been exhausted, are untenable or have failed to remove the threat to your life or the life of another.

Agreed, and the point of this discussion.

 

[Siglvr]

2 things to consider.

1st) Kimber Pepper blaster 2. Having a defensive chemical spray might alivate some of his anxiety, and it might mean he is less apt to feel the need to carry.

2nd) Snap caps. Kind of a Barney Fife thing, have him verify that the 320 is unloaded, and practice with snap caps.

It's great that he has you as a resource. Good luck!

 

[Koda]

My concern isn't with the mechanics as they can be taught. Rather, my concern is that his head just isn't right, and that could mean susceptibility to bad judgment. While I'm not an authority, I see an underlying over-active fear driving his thinking to questionable reactions. He once commented that if he was in a building and someone hit him that he could go out to his truck and get his gun and go back and confront the one who hit him. I immediately told him that's called "pre-meditation" and he'd likely be in jail the rest of his life. I have not heard anything like that since, but I don't know how deeply it sank in.

I wont teach a newbe to shoot until they demonstrate to me the have done some reading on use of force laws. I tell people to buy and read Andrew Brancas book. If i felt someone isnt willing to at least have a basic understanding of the laws I wouldnt encourage them to carry a gun...

 

[Member 34319]

Completely understandable write up.

If I had one different thought over what has already been said, its.

Have you ever watched his hands outside of handling firearms? Do his hands shake doing other things?

I only ask this as differing than the usual advice, that and you mentioned he is +60 and has had a career of playing ball, which could lead to hand issues. My dad worked on completes his whole career, last time we were able to shoot together, his hands were not as stable as I recall them in years past. He is also +60.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Sounds like he's more likely to shoot himself than a bad guy.