ND at tigard Gunbroker

[mjbskwim]

To make people understand it isn't an accident,that they were NEGLIGENT with their gun.

 

[Spitpatch]

Sorry but it was his fault. HE loaded the gun. HE was responsible for the safe operation of the gun.HE should have been aware that something was wrong with the gun that would cause it to ND

How in the bubblegum will the gun go off "though not fault of the careful hunter" ?
How do you not know if your gun has that much of a chance of malfunctioning ?
Did you just buy the gun,load it and start carrying it for hunting,before you tested the thing?

Guns don't just randomly go off.There, most likely ,was something done to it to get it to that point.

Still the operator's fault

And just for S&Gs,in the pit scenario,it would not be a UD because you were testing the gun and knew it might go off.Probably finding the threshold . That's where I was going with it anyway.

1) I acknowledged his "fault". I used the term responsibility. Perhaps you assign all responsibilities as faults, and so I would hope our disagreement is in semantics only. No apology necessary for an agreement.
2) Firearms are mechanical devices. By very definition, they fail.
3) "That much of a chance of malfunctioning" is entirely explained in #2 above. We must always recognize this. You are right in your question, "How do you not know...". The careful hunter is always aware ("knows") of this, and therefore does all he can to allow for it (carrying port arms, pointed at nothing he does not intend to shoot).
4) Testing of a firearm before carrying it for hunting does not negate #2 above. Hence the careful hunter's attention to muzzle direction at all times.
5) In believing "guns don't just randomly go off", we assign ALL unintended discharges to human error. This is simply NOT true (see #2 above), and results in operating under the principle, "If I do nothing wrong, nothing bad can happen." (Again, NOT true.) I would grant that human error with regard to assembly/design of the weapon might be assigned to mechanical UD's, but that is reaching, and absolves the shooter of all responsibility ("fault", as you termed it).
6) We must always "know it might go off". No matter in a pit, carrying in the field or otherwise.

 

[coctailer]

Regarding ND's vs. AD's,and Coctailer's axiom, I would submit that these events can all be categorized as UD's (Unintentional Discharges), and knew from previous threads that someone would pipe up and claim that somehow they are absolutely certain they are immune to any chance of one occurring to them. I will agree that it is entirely possible for someone to spend their whole life with active use of firearms and never have the experience. To discount that would be to discount all probabilities.

But in my storied existence, I would modify Coctailer's well-stated absolute to read: Firearms are mechanical devices. Mechanical devices by their very definition are subject to failure. Humans are humans. Humans by very definition are subject to failure. Combine the two, and the recognized probability of a human interacting regularly with firearms with no UD's for their entire life reduces that probability exponentially. To believe that through careful and always attentive safety procedures one is absolutely immune to a UD, is only proof of another human frailty: We frequently not only believe we are somehow above the rest of the biological world, we very often believe we are completely seperate from it. Our capacity to believe this and other things of seemingly miniscule probability can also be something very good and great: Hope and Faith, for instance.

I call them NDs to condition the mind that normally guns go off by the force of someone doing something wrong. I submit that unintentional discharges occur because of negligence.(normally)

My absolute that if one has never had a ND, they they will in fact be guaranteed to do it in the future, is of course an over-generalization.

I understand that there are weapon handlers that will go their entire life and never have one, but that is normally not the case.

I agree with your definition also. Mine was shorter. I don't like to type a lot.

 

[Spitpatch]

Absolutely correct. I am proud to be a part of a meeting of a mind. (No discount to your contribution, but mine is so insignificant that I could not in all sincerity use the plural.)

 

[Nibbs]

All true...AD, UD, ND......

But shyte happens.

That's why rule number 1 is:

The firearm is always loaded. Nothing else matters other than that.

Treat it as such, and follow rule number 2.....








Rule#2:

The firearm is always loaded.

Know then,
that when it discharges,
that projectile can and will do violence to what ever is in its pathway.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

wait.... taurus makes a pump action .45acp rifle?

Does said gun store still have it in stock?

 

[spider]

I saw a circuit judge there, pointed up on the wall rack, wonder if that was it?

 

[judicator]

The Gun Broker - Clackamas, OR- Rifles

Scroll down to "Taurus"

I believe it was the pump-action Thunderbolt model. .45 Long Colt, not ACP. Sorry, my bad.

 

[142]

Huh... I live about 1 mile from there and was thinking about stopping by this afternoon (around 4, come to think of it) to browse a bit. Glad I didn't go...

 

[SBC97281]

So it has been a couple months since the negligent discharge. Has there been a cleaning up of the staff at the Tigard Gunbroker that anybody knows about?

 

[mkwerx]

The last time I was in there was about a month ago - but it was the same gaggle of guys in there that's been there for years. The only one worth a damn in that store is Steve.

 

[deen_ad]

sounds like someone didn't treat it like it was loaded, no matter if someone tried to rig it with a shell in it or put a clip in it with a round, I don't know about you but I don't go around and dry fire or pull the trigger on any of my guns no matter what, with a clip in it or with out one, WITH OUT TAKING THE CLIP OUT AND CYCLING THE CHAMBER MORE THEN ONCE. Gun control is not only knowing your target before you shoot, but knowing your gun is ready or not.

I am visioning the sherrif that shot is leg during a elementry school outing, telling the kids how dang cool he was showing off his gun. just like any worker at a gun shop gets too used to dealing with guns and forgets to simply check one, boom off goes his winky

Uhh.. You do know the difference between a magazine and a clip I hope.

 

[Mark W.]

The Taurus Thunderbolt is a replica of the COLT Lightning Pump and has been marketed in rimmed cartridges like the 38/357 and .45 long colt. The design of the magazine is not one I would assume would be prone to allowing a heavy round like a .45 long Colt to hang up. If the rifle had a .45ACP in the magazine and it managed to get chambered it would be a VERY loose fit.

 

[Steve06]

This particular incident is a Negligent Discharge

 

[U201494]

The only one worth a damn in that store is Steve.

You sir are correct!

 

[Burt Gummer]

Kudos to any customers there that didn't jump on their mobile phones to tattletale to the police. Normally I'd except tinnitus lawsuits or the like the way everyone is nowadays.

 

[SBC97281]

The Tigard Gunbroker appears closed now. Big sign on the front window saying closed and move to the Clackamas location.

 

[Certaindeaf]

oof. what an odd way/thread to pass this information on though.
At least they won't be buying and then reselling all the Bi-Mart ammo any more. lol

 

[Capn Jack]

What kind of an ignoramus are you?!!

Obviously one with a sense of humor....

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

MG

sounds like someone didn't treat it like it was loaded, no matter if someone tried to rig it with a shell in it or put a clip in it with a round, I don't know about you but I don't go around and dry fire or pull the trigger on any of my guns no matter what, with a clip in it or with out one, WITH OUT TAKING THE CLIP OUT AND CYCLING THE CHAMBER MORE THEN ONCE. Gun control is not only knowing your target before you shoot, but knowing your gun is ready or not.

I am visioning the sherrif that shot is leg during a elementry school outing, telling the kids how dang cool he was showing off his gun. just like any worker at a gun shop gets too used to dealing with guns and forgets to simply check one, boom off goes his winky

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