JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
I have one , I like it because it can be fixed with the guts of a ball point pen, sit in a solvent tank for a month without damage and can digest ammo in almost any condition....in fact most Glocks almost chamber the next caliber up lol
the 45/10mm slides make hella nice pistol whipping platform , you get the nice bat speed of the poly frame and those big cal slides are like a little piece of railroad rail

Maybe they could cut the top off the slide like a Beretta to lighten it up a little.
 
For guys who spend lots of time in and around water, esp. salt water, and who need a reliable pistol - this makes perfect sense. I really love Sig pistols from egronomic standpoints and looks - but that doesn't mean crap when your life depends on it. Sig pistols simply don't have the same corrosion resistance Glocks are renowned for. They're also bulkier, heavier, and more expensive.

We should praise this move as a savings to the tax payers. They aren't paying $500 a pistol like we do - they're probabaly getting these guns for $350-400 a pop vs $700 or whatever the going contract rate was for Sigs. Parts are way more plentiful, and cheaper. Breakages except for cracked frames can be fixed in field. There are what, 33 parts to a Glock pistol, including the frame, slide, and two separate pieces for sights? That brings the guts down to what, 29 parts? You can take one apart with a multitool and a rock and when you put it back together it won't be worse for wear. This makes sense for guys who may find themselves a long way from home (or resupply) - each guy can carry a complete parts kit in his ruck if he wanted and it would take up next to no room or weight.

Holsters are plentiful. Accessories are plentiful. Lots of COTS options for guys who need a big variety of gear to do their jobs. That's a big plus.

And the special warfare guys aren't "lowest common denominator" types - they are the ones who get the most trigger time, and who get to choose what they carry into battle. The grip on a Glock 19 is smaller and fits more hands than the grip on a P226. Shorter lighter trigger is easier to shoot well with.

Lowest common denominator thinking got you the Beretta M9 and a policy of cold chambers everywhere except while "outside the wire" - it's a wonder those Berettas weren't mandated to be double action only WITH a safety, loaded chamber indicator, warnings that bullets can hurt, and a "THIS END TOWARD ENEMY" stamp atop the barrel with a bright orange arrow pointing to the muzzle. It surely wouldn't get you a gun that demands more heightened muzzle awareness and trigger discipline.

If the spec ops boys want Glocks, let 'em have Glocks. If they wanted HK's - let 'em have it. Best tools for the job should be the concern, and the guys doing the job are usually better equipped to make that determination than some jackwagon in DC pushing paper for a living or waving around his pen and phone. Be glad they're getting real guns and not pink fairy wands with white flags on the end.
 
Lowest common denominator thinking got you the Beretta M9. . . .

Don't let the fact that the Beretta 92F was the only pistol that passed all of the XM9 trial phases, (just to bid, SIG needed a waiver on both sections of the dried mud test that multiple examples of the P226 failed), get in the way of an epic rant.
 
I've long considered the G19 the go-to SHTF gun, and I know I'm not alone. I recommend the G19 to anyone looking for their first pistol, providing the ergonomics work for them. This is great news.

That said, I still carry a 1911 (style points, right?)
 
I consider my G19 my SHTF GTW gun. It has NEVER had an issue. Not one. And it has the NibX finish which was frowned upon by some for tolerance issues causing reliability problems. I pull the trigger and it spits out a hot piece of metal. Every. Single. Time. And I like Sigs, but being left handed means I won't own one.
 
sorry to rile ya up. no little bitty hands here, carry an fnp 45, it fits just right. I just find the glocks to be a bit simplistic, a basic projectile launcher. I don't understand the glee when describing how much abuse they can take. Anyone who intentially abusing any firearm is taking a risk. WHY risk passing the point where your 500 dollar investment is permanently effed up? I have tripped and fallen hunting in the woods (it happens) I actually risked injury to protect my gun. Could it have taken me falling on it? Probably, why risk it. I care for my weapons to a meticulous degree, I don't understand the mentality of those who are proud that they don't. I often wonder how often they bathe, brush their teeth, et cetera.

I wonder if the Military will make they same mistake they made with the M16, they issued them with the instructions that they didn't need to be cleaned. Trust me, I don't think this will go well, just a gut feeling. Military minds in charge may actually think they will need to provide less training. Sort of like giving a hand grenade to a chimp, you just know it's going to end badly.
 
Don't let the fact that the Beretta 92F was the only pistol that passed all of the XM9 trial phases, (just to bid, SIG needed a waiver on both sections of the dried mud test that multiple examples of the P226 failed), get in the way of an epic rant.

The M9 isn't a bad gun - but the criteria for it's selection, the criteria that lead to the Beretta, is lowest common denominator thinking. A big pistol with a long, heavy double action trigger with a manual safety because god forbid trigger discipline and muzzle awareness get pounded into Joe Snuffy's head from the get go and given a weapon that is point & click easy to use. In the mind of a bureaucrat, it's easier and cheaper to have long heavy trigger pulls and manual safety switched plus policy against loaded chambers. I mean we wouldn't want anyone getting hurt, or being responsible not to hurt themselves or others, right? It's not like you can teach someone not to put their nose picking butt scratching wand on the thing that makes the gun go boom until it's time to do so - nope, easier to say no chambered rounds and lots of safety "features". The Sig P226 is almost as bad - the heavy DA trigger is still there, but the personnel fielding it would have to remember to decock it before holstering, lest they inadvertently shoot themselves. That would probably require extra training, and recruits that can rub two neurons together to get it. Bureaucrats don't trust their underlings to be intelligent enough not to hurt themselves. They - that being the soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors, and anyone else toting a gun for a living - don't get enough credit most of the time. They might not all be the sharpest sticks in the box but I bet that a huge majority of camo suit wearing men and women could use a Glock or similar pistol and be juuuuust fine and not go around putting extra holes in themselves or those around them unless aid people NEED extra holes. How many cops carry Glocks or M&P's or XD's around every day, with chambers loaded, and don't shoot themselves or someone else accidentally or negligently? Pretty sure that percentage would be close among our servicemen and women.
 
What's wrong with a basic projectile launcher? Not all of us who own Glocks abuse them. I clean my G19 after EVERY shoot. Period. I know plenty of guys don't. But like you I meticulously clean my guns after every shoot. I bathe daily, brush my teeth twice a day and treat each piece in my collection like it was the last I'll ever buy. Glocks are blocky, ugly, and have lousy stock sights. But when the fit hits the shan, I have ZERO doubt that my "projectile launcher" will launch each and every projectile at the target reliably. I may not look as cool as a guy with a $1000 1911, but from my end all I see is targets.
 
I wonder if the Military will make they same mistake they made with the M16, they issued them with the instructions that they didn't need to be cleaned. Trust me, I don't think this will go well, just a gut feeling. Military minds in charge may actually think they will need to provide less training. Sort of like giving a hand grenade to a chimp, you just know it's going to end badly.

Whether a person loves the Glock 19 or hates the Glock 19 is irrelevant. The Glock 19 has been carried and used in combat for over 10 years by other American Special Operations units. They work well enough for the people who are going to get them.

NSW is not a pioneer in this. They are satisfied by the experience of other top units with the Glock 19. Add to it that the price point is lower than the Sig, the Sig pistols were not doing well in saltwater (no pistol really does), the contract with Sig was up, the Glock 19 is the ideal size for a carry pistol and replaces two models of Sig pistols, and the switch made a lot of sense for NSW.

As for instructions and training, the guys getting the Glock 19 are trained well beyond the basic recruit. Is it possible that someone with a lot of training can make a mistake? Sure. That said, the other units have been able to handle it well so there's no reason to think the SEALs will have an inordinate amount of safety problems with it.

While the switch is interesting in a trivia kind of way, modern wars are not won or lost by handgun selection. In a military context, long guns are primary firearms and pistols are secondary firearms. If the primary goes down, a person who carries a pistol can transition to his pistol but generally he wants to get his long gun back in the fight if at all possible.

Just think of the switch as a move that makes sense given the parameters of what they are looking for right now. The caliber works for them. The size works for them. The price point works for them. The Glock 19 is already in the supply chain. It is relatively durable and simple to maintain. It is lightweight when compared to the pistols they are replacing. The switch does not mean you cannot have a favorite pistol that is different from what they carry.

*Edited to add: Follow the link that titsonritz posted. "Rana" on M4carbine.net covers the whole thing very well.
 
For guys who spend lots of time in and around water, esp. salt water, and who need a reliable pistol - this makes perfect sense. I really love Sig pistols from egronomic standpoints and looks - but that doesn't mean crap when your life depends on it. Sig pistols simply don't have the same corrosion resistance Glocks are renowned for. They're also bulkier, heavier, and more expensive.

We should praise this move as a savings to the tax payers. They aren't paying $500 a pistol like we do - they're probabaly getting these guns for $350-400 a pop vs $700 or whatever the going contract rate was for Sigs. Parts are way more plentiful, and cheaper. Breakages except for cracked frames can be fixed in field. There are what, 33 parts to a Glock pistol, including the frame, slide, and two separate pieces for sights? That brings the guts down to what, 29 parts? You can take one apart with a multitool and a rock and when you put it back together it won't be worse for wear. This makes sense for guys who may find themselves a long way from home (or resupply) - each guy can carry a complete parts kit in his ruck if he wanted and it would take up next to no room or weight.

Holsters are plentiful. Accessories are plentiful. Lots of COTS options for guys who need a big variety of gear to do their jobs. That's a big plus.

And the special warfare guys aren't "lowest common denominator" types - they are the ones who get the most trigger time, and who get to choose what they carry into battle. The grip on a Glock 19 is smaller and fits more hands than the grip on a P226. Shorter lighter trigger is easier to shoot well with.

Lowest common denominator thinking got you the Beretta M9 and a policy of cold chambers everywhere except while "outside the wire" - it's a wonder those Berettas weren't mandated to be double action only WITH a safety, loaded chamber indicator, warnings that bullets can hurt, and a "THIS END TOWARD ENEMY" stamp atop the barrel with a bright orange arrow pointing to the muzzle. It surely wouldn't get you a gun that demands more heightened muzzle awareness and trigger discipline.

If the spec ops boys want Glocks, let 'em have Glocks. If they wanted HK's - let 'em have it. Best tools for the job should be the concern, and the guys doing the job are usually better equipped to make that determination than some jackwagon in DC pushing paper for a living or waving around his pen and phone. Be glad they're getting real guns and not pink fairy wands with white flags on the end.
AND! I bet that if one of the elite force shoots himself in the leg,I'm guessing he won't be part of that team any more.
I would guess there will be a small number of cases shooting themselves in the leg
 
NSW is not a pioneer in this. They are satisfied by the experience of other top units with the Glock 19. Add to it that the price point is lower than the Sig, the Sig pistols were not doing well in saltwater (no pistol really does), the contract with Sig was up, the Glock 19 is the ideal size for a carry pistol and replaces two models of Sig pistols, and the switch made a lot of sense for NSW.

get out of here with facts and crap.....this is the INTERNET !
Sig FTW


la-z-boy_zpsqftv2ycw.jpg
 
I EDC a Gen.2.5 (gen.3 grip, no rail) G-30 and love the way the grip fits my hand in that it naturally aligns with my forearm for spontaneous point-shooting w/o even the slightest thought giving to alignment.

I got the wife a NIB Gen.3 G-19 (because the price was awesome) and she's almost a "natural" with it. It's very similar in size to my G-30 with the same manual of arms (etc), but the grip cross section (front to back) is just a wee bit too skinny for me and I actually have to give thought to make sure the thing isn't twisted off to one side or the other.

Although I prefer the .45ACP, my long term goals for potential SHTF are "commonality" in ammo and kit for my family unit (for obvious reasons). Being as 9mm has "grown up" and magazine capacity is "more better", I'll be getting me a Gen.4 G-19 and slap the larger blackstrap on it to better approximate the G-30 grip.
 
Some PPL don't realize what the handgun world was like before the Glock and Tupperware pistols in general came along. Poorly designed, unreliable, semi-autos were the reason millions stuck with wheel guns!

Prior to Glock I was a 1911 man, I owned 8 of em and had built 5 but the 1911 was never intended to be used with HP ammo so each gun had to be reworked for a particular bullet profile. There were several gunsmiths who charged 100's-1000 dollars to make an auto function with hollow points.
I bought an early Glock (3 digit #) and have been shooting it for 26 years, outside of replacing some internals to improve the trigger it is stock. It has never jammed on any bullet design, it has never jammed at all, even with cheap after market mags.
This is better performance than my 1911'so_O
 
The M9 isn't a bad gun - but the criteria for it's selection, the criteria that lead to the Beretta, is lowest common denominator thinking. A big pistol with a long, heavy double action trigger with a manual safety because god forbid trigger discipline and muzzle awareness get pounded into Joe Snuffy's head from the get go and given a weapon that is point & click easy to use. In the mind of a bureaucrat, it's easier and cheaper to have long heavy trigger pulls and manual safety switched plus policy against loaded chambers. I mean we wouldn't want anyone getting hurt, or being responsible not to hurt themselves or others, right? It's not like you can teach someone not to put their nose picking butt scratching wand on the thing that makes the gun go boom until it's time to do so - nope, easier to say no chambered rounds and lots of safety "features". The Sig P226 is almost as bad - the heavy DA trigger is still there, but the personnel fielding it would have to remember to decock it before holstering, lest they inadvertently shoot themselves. That would probably require extra training, and recruits that can rub two neurons together to get it. Bureaucrats don't trust their underlings to be intelligent enough not to hurt themselves. They - that being the soldiers, airmen, marines, sailors, and anyone else toting a gun for a living - don't get enough credit most of the time. They might not all be the sharpest sticks in the box but I bet that a huge majority of camo suit wearing men and women could use a Glock or similar pistol and be juuuuust fine and not go around putting extra holes in themselves or those around them unless aid people NEED extra holes. How many cops carry Glocks or M&P's or XD's around every day, with chambers loaded, and don't shoot themselves or someone else accidentally or negligently? Pretty sure that percentage would be close among our servicemen and women.

Heck, no one successfully drilled the concept of a paragraph into your head, so inadequate training of the lowest common denominator is always an issue.

That and cops have been shooting themselves, others, floors, cruisers, lockers, etcetera with Glocks for decades now.

The Beretta 92FS is a fantastic pistol if you keep it out of community property status like the infantry forces use and away from checkmate industries non-OEM magazines.

After all, lots of Glockophiles look askance at "Asian Military Mags" for their g-things. Why? Because everyone prefers OEM mags except DOD bean counters.
 
ND's by "professionals" are more often from COMPLACENCY, and not from a lack of opposable thumbs.

Effectively operating/carrying a firearm IS NOT rocket science and a PhD is NOT required, but the potential for its energy being unleashed demands respect and a lack of rectal-cranialitus at all times.

No rocket science involved. :rolleyes:
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top