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So, the post below was originally started as a reply to this thread (specifically posts on page 6):

Gun Discussion - I don't get it...

... Where the discussion turned to things like:

"Open carry is open and concealed is concealed. It's not Mix and Match"

"if a very small amount of my firearm is showing then I should just open carry instead?"

a "Partially Concealed Carry License" (hehe)

and... "OC posers seeking attention."

So, I wrote the comments below in response to that, but decided to start a new thread for comment on this idea, instead of asking for comment in the other thread and possibly derailing it (or derailing it further)... :) So, with that context in mind, here's my thoughts, and possible proposal...


I will open carry in the woods sometimes, but don't open carry in town much, both because I don't need any hassles, and because I see it as a tactical disadvantage to give away the presence of a weapon, should a situation arise. That said, my wife worries if I'm printing sometimes, and I really just don't worry about it. I have a CHL, so I'm legal for concealed, and open carry is legal in OR, so either way I'm legal, so I don't see any reason to get worked up about it.


As for open carry people wanting to get attention, there's an aspect of it that doesn't HAVE to be about getting attention (or at least not "overt" or "negative" attention for some ego-based desires), rather spreading awareness, that MIGHT work in some circumstances, for SOME people...


For example, let's say you go into a coffee shop or a grocery store and do nothing out of the ordinary, other than open carrying.... Some people might notice and be fine with it (maybe carrying themselves), some will surely hate it, but there might be others that don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other, and they might notice, see that you didn't do anything scary, and just went about your business, and it might slightly contribute to a "huh... nothing bad happened, I guess he/she wasn't some crazed madman, about to start some trouble."


I can't help but think that, over time, this might impact some of the anti-gun crowd that's just been scared by the media, but hadn't previous held any strong opinion on guns, and maybe even affect some with stronger feeling against guns, again, if they saw it often enough with nothing bad happening. Years ago, if people saw someone walk into a store with a bunch of tattoos, or maybe a mohawk, leather jacket, and chains, or maybe dressed in all black with a big ring through their nose and gauges in their ears, people's suspicion/concern might have risen, but these days, you see that so often, that people don't get as anxious as the might have years ago.


I think the "exposure to something different" than the norm, and not having a bad experience, over time, can make things less threatening.... Likewise, the homosexual movement has done the same kind of thing to great effect for their cause (i.e. put it in your face so often that people are just expected to get used to it, and many do)... So, I find myself wondering, maybe people should open carry more... I'm not 100% convinced, and it certainly does, at this stage of the game, put you at risk for hassles from people, but maybe it would help to some extent in the long run....


For self-defense, concealed carry is the way to go, in my opinion, but from an advocacy/normalization point of view, open carry, when done by an average, reasonable, otherwise respectful/respectable person, might be helpful in reducing the stigmatism about guns and their owners. No need for NRA hats or shirts with guns all over them, or anything else that might immediately identify you as the proverbial "idiotic gun nut" (save those for another day), rather just "normal looking people," with no obvious political leaning, no threatening demeanor, no big arguments/actions; People who, if viewed from one side, wouldn't cause the average person to look twice, but when viewed from the other side, just happen to have a handgun in a holster... No big deal.


Again, though I don't normally open carry, with regards to my wife's concerns about printing/showing, the things that go through my mind are: 1)I'm legal, 2)She's more likely noticing because she knows it's there, while others are less likely than her to notice (many people are often oblivious to those around them), and 3)if someone does notice, maybe it will have some of the effect mentioned above. My wife and I are pretty normal looking people, not really threatening looking, in any way I can think of, so if someone sees just some average guy, walking along with his pretty wife :), smiling, just going about their business, maybe it could have a positive impact on someone's thinking... Therefore, while I try to keep it concealed, if it's noticed a little (and not because I'm seeking any attention), I just don't feel like it's a big concern (unless maybe I'm some place where I know it's not welcome, e.g. some place it's posted, then concealed means concealed, and I'd be more concerned).


BTW, as I'm thinking through this, my brain has been focussing primarily on handguns in a holster at the waist. I just don't think the open carry of long guns, especially big, black, scary ARs or AKs would have the same potential positive effect at this point, but maybe someday...


This makes me wonder... I wonder if it would be effective to start a "national unconcealed day," where concealed carry folks all decide to open carry for the day, with a couple rules like:


-Must be a handgun only and look like a handgun (e.g. no AR pistols, etc), preferably you concealed carry handgun, but in an open carry holster (or your concealed holster, but maybe with shirt tucked behind it, as long as it doesn't look weird... Not advised to swap out for your 44 mag with a 10 inch barrel... ;-) Just try to keep it as normal and unthreatening as possible. Remember the purpose here is not to rub it in people's faces, rather, to build awareness of how many GOOD people around them are carrying, and they just don't normally notice.


-No attitudes, no defiance of rules, arguing, raising of voices... If someone notices, don't make a big deal of it. If you're out shopping, and a fellow shopper notices, be nice, smile, don't tell them to mind their own f'in business, rather, just let them know, with a smile, "hey, I'm just picking up some groceries," and go back to what you're doing, and just ignore them, unless they engage you again, then always keep it nice, with a smile, even offer to shop a different area of the store for now, so they don't have to see you. Kill them with kindness. :)


-If engaged by a business owner that you know doesn't allow guns (i.e. its posted), then apologize and leave immediately.


-If engaged by a business owner that doesn't have anything posted and they are uncomfortable, then simply ask them if they'd mind if you quickly finished shopping, as this is your favorite store or closest store, even offer to cover it up, as to not raise concern from other shoppers, and if they deny that in anyway, just apologize, and leave nicely, with a smile on your face. No "smart"/sarcastic comments, lectures on the 2A, etc. Just be nice and leave.


-If engaged by law enforcement, same thing, no 2A lectures, show your CHL, but above all, be respectful, don't cause a scene, just let them know you're carrying for "national unconcealed day" (or maybe "national revealed day" or whatever catchy name we could come up with), and just don't start any trouble...


I'm sure their could be other rules/suggestions, but above all, the idea would be to make it a positive day, where nothing bad happens...


That said, maybe there are too many goofy people out there who wouldn't "follow the rules/guidelines" and it would only take one bad thing happening to quickly go the other direction with a lot of negative media attention, but if the proclamation of the "national <whatever we call it> day" was circulated through the media, people knew it was coming, and things went well, then it could maybe change the perceptions of some people, and by that, the course of things a bit...


So, there's my thought experiment for the day. :)

Thoughts/Comments?
 
I might consider this if my only pistol wasn't a full sized military model.
I just don't carry very often, but i'm considering it once I acquire an appropriate firearm.
I think that a few you tuber transplant Californians might have a nervous break down and end up in a hospital.
A rally would look too much like past protests which have seemed to only worsen public image.
I like the idea of a nationally accepted OC day.
 
I have no problem with people open carrying, but don't buy it when they get worked up about someone getting worked up about it. They know what they're doing.

no different than my boss with subdermal horn implants, 3" ear lobes, skull tattoos, etc, getting profiled for his appearance, or someone reeking of pot getting starred at on the bus. People judge strangers, and what kind of threats they may pose. Someone legally carrying, however they choose, is still a potential threat when you don't know them.
 
So, the post below was originally started as a reply to this thread (specifically posts on page 6):

Gun Discussion - I don't get it...

... Where the discussion turned to things like:

"Open carry is open and concealed is concealed. It's not Mix and Match"

"if a very small amount of my firearm is showing then I should just open carry instead?"

a "Partially Concealed Carry License" (hehe)

and... "OC posers seeking attention."

So, I wrote the comments below in response to that, but decided to start a new thread for comment on this idea, instead of asking for comment in the other thread and possibly derailing it (or derailing it further)... :) So, with that context in mind, here's my thoughts, and possible proposal...


I will open carry in the woods sometimes, but don't open carry in town much, both because I don't need any hassles, and because I see it as a tactical disadvantage to give away the presence of a weapon, should a situation arise. That said, my wife worries if I'm printing sometimes, and I really just don't worry about it. I have a CHL, so I'm legal for concealed, and open carry is legal in OR, so either way I'm legal, so I don't see any reason to get worked up about it.


As for open carry people wanting to get attention, there's an aspect of it that doesn't HAVE to be about getting attention (or at least not "overt" or "negative" attention for some ego-based desires), rather spreading awareness, that MIGHT work in some circumstances, for SOME people...


For example, let's say you go into a coffee shop or a grocery store and do nothing out of the ordinary, other than open carrying.... Some people might notice and be fine with it (maybe carrying themselves), some will surely hate it, but there might be others that don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other, and they might notice, see that you didn't do anything scary, and just went about your business, and it might slightly contribute to a "huh... nothing bad happened, I guess he/she wasn't some crazed madman, about to start some trouble."


I can't help but think that, over time, this might impact some of the anti-gun crowd that's just been scared by the media, but hadn't previous held any strong opinion on guns, and maybe even affect some with stronger feeling against guns, again, if they saw it often enough with nothing bad happening. Years ago, if people saw someone walk into a store with a bunch of tattoos, or maybe a mohawk, leather jacket, and chains, or maybe dressed in all black with a big ring through their nose and gauges in their ears, people's suspicion/concern might have risen, but these days, you see that so often, that people don't get as anxious as the might have years ago.


I think the "exposure to something different" than the norm, and not having a bad experience, over time, can make things less threatening.... Likewise, the homosexual movement has done the same kind of thing to great effect for their cause (i.e. put it in your face so often that people are just expected to get used to it, and many do)... So, I find myself wondering, maybe people should open carry more... I'm not 100% convinced, and it certainly does, at this stage of the game, put you at risk for hassles from people, but maybe it would help to some extent in the long run....


For self-defense, concealed carry is the way to go, in my opinion, but from an advocacy/normalization point of view, open carry, when done by an average, reasonable, otherwise respectful/respectable person, might be helpful in reducing the stigmatism about guns and their owners. No need for NRA hats or shirts with guns all over them, or anything else that might immediately identify you as the proverbial "idiotic gun nut" (save those for another day), rather just "normal looking people," with no obvious political leaning, no threatening demeanor, no big arguments/actions; People who, if viewed from one side, wouldn't cause the average person to look twice, but when viewed from the other side, just happen to have a handgun in a holster... No big deal.


Again, though I don't normally open carry, with regards to my wife's concerns about printing/showing, the things that go through my mind are: 1)I'm legal, 2)She's more likely noticing because she knows it's there, while others are less likely than her to notice (many people are often oblivious to those around them), and 3)if someone does notice, maybe it will have some of the effect mentioned above. My wife and I are pretty normal looking people, not really threatening looking, in any way I can think of, so if someone sees just some average guy, walking along with his pretty wife :), smiling, just going about their business, maybe it could have a positive impact on someone's thinking... Therefore, while I try to keep it concealed, if it's noticed a little (and not because I'm seeking any attention), I just don't feel like it's a big concern (unless maybe I'm some place where I know it's not welcome, e.g. some place it's posted, then concealed means concealed, and I'd be more concerned).


BTW, as I'm thinking through this, my brain has been focussing primarily on handguns in a holster at the waist. I just don't think the open carry of long guns, especially big, black, scary ARs or AKs would have the same potential positive effect at this point, but maybe someday...


This makes me wonder... I wonder if it would be effective to start a "national unconcealed day," where concealed carry folks all decide to open carry for the day, with a couple rules like:


-Must be a handgun only and look like a handgun (e.g. no AR pistols, etc), preferably you concealed carry handgun, but in an open carry holster (or your concealed holster, but maybe with shirt tucked behind it, as long as it doesn't look weird... Not advised to swap out for your 44 mag with a 10 inch barrel... ;-) Just try to keep it as normal and unthreatening as possible. Remember the purpose here is not to rub it in people's faces, rather, to build awareness of how many GOOD people around them are carrying, and they just don't normally notice.


-No attitudes, no defiance of rules, arguing, raising of voices... If someone notices, don't make a big deal of it. If you're out shopping, and a fellow shopper notices, be nice, smile, don't tell them to mind their own f'in business, rather, just let them know, with a smile, "hey, I'm just picking up some groceries," and go back to what you're doing, and just ignore them, unless they engage you again, then always keep it nice, with a smile, even offer to shop a different area of the store for now, so they don't have to see you. Kill them with kindness. :)


-If engaged by a business owner that you know doesn't allow guns (i.e. its posted), then apologize and leave immediately.


-If engaged by a business owner that doesn't have anything posted and they are uncomfortable, then simply ask them if they'd mind if you quickly finished shopping, as this is your favorite store or closest store, even offer to cover it up, as to not raise concern from other shoppers, and if they deny that in anyway, just apologize, and leave nicely, with a smile on your face. No "smart"/sarcastic comments, lectures on the 2A, etc. Just be nice and leave.


-If engaged by law enforcement, same thing, no 2A lectures, show your CHL, but above all, be respectful, don't cause a scene, just let them know you're carrying for "national unconcealed day" (or maybe "national revealed day" or whatever catchy name we could come up with), and just don't start any trouble...


I'm sure their could be other rules/suggestions, but above all, the idea would be to make it a positive day, where nothing bad happens...


That said, maybe there are too many goofy people out there who wouldn't "follow the rules/guidelines" and it would only take one bad thing happening to quickly go the other direction with a lot of negative media attention, but if the proclamation of the "national <whatever we call it> day" was circulated through the media, people knew it was coming, and things went well, then it could maybe change the perceptions of some people, and by that, the course of things a bit...


So, there's my thought experiment for the day. :)

Thoughts/Comments?

Good idea. In a perfect world. :rolleyes:
I'd say go for it. I'm SO jaded from living in the heart of anti 2nd amendment Portland that I'll sit on the sidelines and watch for a bit.
 
To me open carry is dependent on the location. An example open carrying in a grocery store in Prarie city oregon is going to go alot easier than say Fred Meyers at Gateway. Prari e city no one's going to bat an eye Portland you will end up meeting the men in blue.
 
I have no problem with people open carrying, but don't buy it when they get worked up about someone getting worked up about it.

Agreed. I've seen videos of people open carrying, and there are people who are nice and polite in their interaction with civilians and police, and I don't mind seeing that, but the OC guys that are defensive and rude and yelling about their rights don't seem to help anyone, in my opinion. No need to get worked up and act like you're enemies with everyone; Who wants to "come to your side" when you're a jerk. :)
 
To me open carry is dependent on the location. An example open carrying in a grocery store in Prarie city oregon is going to go alot easier than say Fred Meyers at Gateway. Prari e city no one's going to bat an eye Portland you will end up meeting the men in blue.

That's ^^ what I'm talking about! Gateway Freddy's.....One of the worst. They have remodeled and made it like a maze to get in and out of the store now. Choke points, security, a special parking spot for Portland police. Ahhhh.... so nice how Portland has developed light rail in the community! Come to think of it, if you were dressed nicely and open carrying, you may go un-noticed?
 
Alternative names:
  • National Shoot Me First Day
  • National Steal That Open Carry Guy's Gun Day
  • National Snowflake Panic Day (left unexplained: how this would be different from any other day)
  • National "HE'S GOT A GUN!!!!" Day
  • National Annoy A Cop Day
Honestly, I think it's a nice thought, and more power to you and anyone who participates, but I'm not much into activism of any kind. Never have been. Never will be.

That said, I wish you all the best.
 
To me open carry is dependent on the location. An example open carrying in a grocery store in Prarie city oregon is going to go alot easier than say Fred Meyers at Gateway. Prari e city no one's going to bat an eye Portland you will end up meeting the men in blue.

True, but it seems like even those boundaries can be pushed a little if people are nice and polite and respectful. I live in the Washington County area and I don't think I'd be too worried about OC'ing on a "national OC day," even though some areas might have some people that might get worked up a bit, but I just feel like I'm a pretty even-keeled guy and wouldn't have a problem interacting with people/LEOs, especially on a day that OC is expected. I'm not sure OC'ing in Prarie City would do much to further awareness (probably wouldn't hurt though), and doing it in places like downtown Portland certainly carries more risk vs. possible reward, so maybe those suburban areas might be a good place to do these kinds of things, from a risk/reward ratio point of view... Again, just thinking out loud...
 
That's ^^ what I'm talking about! Gateway Freddy's.....One of the worst. They have remodeled and made it like a maze to get in and out of the store now. Choke points, security, a special parking spot for Portland police. Ahhhh.... so nice how Portland has developed light rail in the community! Come to think of it, if you were dressed nicely and open carrying, you may go un-noticed?

I've not been there, so I'm not sure if you were being facetious or honest in that last comment...
 
Honestly, I think it's a nice thought, and more power to you and anyone who participates, but I'm not much into activism of any kind. Never have been. Never will be.

That said, I wish you all the best.

Thanks... You know, I've never been anything close to what I'd call an activist. I don't recall having been to a rally or a protest, or anything... Maybe the closest I've come to it was gathering signatures for the NoFakeEmergencies petition (after the passage of SB941 as an "emergency") that would have changed the requirements for the Oregon legislature to require a 2/3 majority to declare a bill an emergency, instead of the simple majority that has repeatedly abused by our current administration. So, no, I'm not really into activism in general, but as things continue to get worse and worse, I find myself thinking "what kind of things CAN I do try and slow/stop/reverse the loss of my rights/freedom." The new ammo laws in California this year are crazy, and I hate knowing that our legislature looks to them for ideas.... Scary, so it's getting harder to not do anything and hope it will get better. Maybe if I didn't have any kids, I wouldn't care as much, but I hate to think what Oregon might become by the time they're my age, without some kind of intervention to work to stop the "progress."
 
I've not been there, so I'm not sure if you were being facetious or honest in that last comment...

The low life's that come across the parking lot from the transit center would be the ones that were watched. Big purses and empty back packs are what gets the attention at that store.

True, but it seems like even those boundaries can be pushed a little if people are nice and polite and respectful.

I'd really like that to be the case but as soon as the local media starts running stories? Woooof, "Hundreds of people will be packing dangerous weapons Saturday for the first annual open carry day. The Portland Police will be using all available police officers to monitor possible dangerous situations as anti firearm activists plan on protesting the movement". After that comes the hundreds of thousands of letters to city, county and state officials, and the making of some"New" laws.
 
I'd really like that to be the case but as soon as the local media starts running stories? Woooof, "Hundreds of people will be packing dangerous weapons Saturday for the first annual open carry day. The Portland Police will be using all available police officers to monitor possible dangerous situations as anti firearm activists plan on protesting the movement". After that comes the hundreds of thousands of letters to city, county and state officials, and the making of some"New" laws.

Fair point, I could see that. Maybe areas where we've seen idiots violently protest already, over silly things that in no way called for violence, should be avoided, and only the less crazy areas would be the best places to build awareness. Maybe suburbs are the place to drive change, since there's already too much controversy in the downtown urban areas... Or maybe a specific day is a bad idea, maybe it would be better as just a "movement to OC nicely, more often" rather than a specific day... It's a tough call. I think it could help, but there's also plenty of idiots out there that I wouldn't trust to not "screw it up for the rest of us," and turn true progress into worse "progress."
 
Why not just carry concealed as normal but wear a big honkin obvious empty holster OWB? People(idiots) will do a double take. If they ask say either what the hell you lookin at or hey its just my smart phone holder.
Either way it will likely trigger the triggerable.
 
Sorry, but a more appropriate name should be....

"National Mainstream Media Will Only Interview the Lunatic/Idiots With Guns Day".

Think about how a "Working Stiffs That Have To Pay For All Your Handouts Day" would be covered...
.... and then multiply that by 100!:eek:
 
Last Edited:
Cave Junction Oregon. Southern Illinois Valley. Josephine County. Next to ZERO law enforcement. ZERO. Many merchants open carry inside their place of business. You get used to it. Recognized frequent Bank Patrons walk into my local bank open carrying. The bank staff understands. No problem. Many of the lunch time customers in our local Restaurant open carry. No big deal for us.

During the first few days of deer season you see some folks walking down the sidewalks with their deer rifles slung diagonally across their backs. Usually bright empty chamber flags showing. Some come into the restaurant to eat. They prop their rifles up next to them sitting in the booths. All the local friendly gun shop employees open carry. Lots of training rounds also. Different world.
 
Why not just carry concealed as normal but wear a big honkin obvious empty holster OWB? People(idiots) will do a double take. If they ask say either what the hell you lookin at or hey its just my smart phone holder.
Either way it will likely trigger the triggerable.

The idea of just wearing a visible, empty holster is interesting, but "what the hell you lookin' at?" is the type of response I'd want to avoid and which I think would be counter-productive to the intent of doing so. I don't know about you, but getting a reaction like that from someone wouldn't make me think highly of them at all. In fact, I was walking down main street in Seaside one time, and saw a pretty cool looking car (I forget what it was, but some kind of tricked out, classic muscle car), and I was admiring it, not even really paying attention to who was driving it, and the driver said something pretty much exactly like "what are you looking at." I ignored it and kept walking, but had he not had an attitude, I might have asked him about his engine, how long he had it, and other curious info about it, but that crappy attitude like that shutdown any attempts at communication, and I walked away thinking "what a <insert some not-so-nice word here>." That's exactly the opposite of the type of interaction I would hope for... I'd hope something more like: "Hi," and a smile, and go back to my business... Let others continue to shop, heaven forbid, in the presense of someone carrying... who was nice, said hi, and just kept doing his thing. No quite so scary as they might have assumed... Best case, maybe even a little friendly conversation, answer some questions about what/why, maybe dispel some myths about what a "gun person" is like. Help them realize we're just another friendly neighbor like anyone else; Help them realize that maybe some of their neighbors carry and they don't even realize it. Help them realize it's all around them, even if they don't know it, and the world is not worse off for it....
 
The idea of just wearing a visible, empty holster is interesting, but "what the hell you lookin' at?" is the type of response I'd want to avoid and which I think would be counter-productive to the intent of doing so. I don't know about you, but getting a reaction like that from someone wouldn't make me think highly of them at all. In fact, I was walking down main street in Seaside one time, and saw a pretty cool looking car (I forget what it was, but some kind of tricked out, classic muscle car),
and I was admiring it, not even really paying attention to
who was driving it, and the driver said something pretty much exactly like "what are you looking at." I ignored it and kept walking, but had he not had an attitude, I might have asked him about his engine, how long he had it, and other curious info about it, but that crappy attitude like that shutdown any attempts at
communication, and I walked away thinking "what a <insert some not-so-nice word here>." That's exactly the opposite of the type of interaction I would hope for... I'd hope something more like: "Hi," and a smile, and go back to my business... Let others continue to shop, heaven forbid, in the presense of someone carrying...
who was nice, said hi, and just kept doing his thing. No quite so scary as they might have assumed... Best case, maybe even a little friendly conversation, answer some questions about what/why, maybe dispel some myths about what a "gun person" is like. Help them realize we're just another friendly neighbor like anyone else;
Help them realize that maybe some of their neighbors carry and they don't even realize it. Help them realize it's all around them, even if they don't know it, and the world is not worse off for it....

Tongue in cheek....
Tongue-in-cheek
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The tongue-in-cheek figure of speech is used to imply that a statement or other production is humorously or otherwise not seriously intended, and it should not be taken at face value.

The phrase was originally meant to express contempt. By 1842, however, the phrase had acquired its contemporary meaning, indicating that a statement was not meant to be taken seriously.[1][2][3] Early users of the phrase include Sir Walter Scott in his 1828 The Fair Maid of Perth.



Contents
[1History


History[edit]
Putting one's tongue into one's cheek was originally used to signify contempt.[4] F


Tongue-in-cheek - Wikipedia
 

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