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So, the post below was originally started as a reply to this thread (specifically posts on page 6):
Gun Discussion - I don't get it...
... Where the discussion turned to things like:
"Open carry is open and concealed is concealed. It's not Mix and Match"
"if a very small amount of my firearm is showing then I should just open carry instead?"
a "Partially Concealed Carry License" (hehe)
and... "OC posers seeking attention."
So, I wrote the comments below in response to that, but decided to start a new thread for comment on this idea, instead of asking for comment in the other thread and possibly derailing it (or derailing it further)... So, with that context in mind, here's my thoughts, and possible proposal...
I will open carry in the woods sometimes, but don't open carry in town much, both because I don't need any hassles, and because I see it as a tactical disadvantage to give away the presence of a weapon, should a situation arise. That said, my wife worries if I'm printing sometimes, and I really just don't worry about it. I have a CHL, so I'm legal for concealed, and open carry is legal in OR, so either way I'm legal, so I don't see any reason to get worked up about it.
As for open carry people wanting to get attention, there's an aspect of it that doesn't HAVE to be about getting attention (or at least not "overt" or "negative" attention for some ego-based desires), rather spreading awareness, that MIGHT work in some circumstances, for SOME people...
For example, let's say you go into a coffee shop or a grocery store and do nothing out of the ordinary, other than open carrying.... Some people might notice and be fine with it (maybe carrying themselves), some will surely hate it, but there might be others that don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other, and they might notice, see that you didn't do anything scary, and just went about your business, and it might slightly contribute to a "huh... nothing bad happened, I guess he/she wasn't some crazed madman, about to start some trouble."
I can't help but think that, over time, this might impact some of the anti-gun crowd that's just been scared by the media, but hadn't previous held any strong opinion on guns, and maybe even affect some with stronger feeling against guns, again, if they saw it often enough with nothing bad happening. Years ago, if people saw someone walk into a store with a bunch of tattoos, or maybe a mohawk, leather jacket, and chains, or maybe dressed in all black with a big ring through their nose and gauges in their ears, people's suspicion/concern might have risen, but these days, you see that so often, that people don't get as anxious as the might have years ago.
I think the "exposure to something different" than the norm, and not having a bad experience, over time, can make things less threatening.... Likewise, the homosexual movement has done the same kind of thing to great effect for their cause (i.e. put it in your face so often that people are just expected to get used to it, and many do)... So, I find myself wondering, maybe people should open carry more... I'm not 100% convinced, and it certainly does, at this stage of the game, put you at risk for hassles from people, but maybe it would help to some extent in the long run....
For self-defense, concealed carry is the way to go, in my opinion, but from an advocacy/normalization point of view, open carry, when done by an average, reasonable, otherwise respectful/respectable person, might be helpful in reducing the stigmatism about guns and their owners. No need for NRA hats or shirts with guns all over them, or anything else that might immediately identify you as the proverbial "idiotic gun nut" (save those for another day), rather just "normal looking people," with no obvious political leaning, no threatening demeanor, no big arguments/actions; People who, if viewed from one side, wouldn't cause the average person to look twice, but when viewed from the other side, just happen to have a handgun in a holster... No big deal.
Again, though I don't normally open carry, with regards to my wife's concerns about printing/showing, the things that go through my mind are: 1)I'm legal, 2)She's more likely noticing because she knows it's there, while others are less likely than her to notice (many people are often oblivious to those around them), and 3)if someone does notice, maybe it will have some of the effect mentioned above. My wife and I are pretty normal looking people, not really threatening looking, in any way I can think of, so if someone sees just some average guy, walking along with his pretty wife , smiling, just going about their business, maybe it could have a positive impact on someone's thinking... Therefore, while I try to keep it concealed, if it's noticed a little (and not because I'm seeking any attention), I just don't feel like it's a big concern (unless maybe I'm some place where I know it's not welcome, e.g. some place it's posted, then concealed means concealed, and I'd be more concerned).
BTW, as I'm thinking through this, my brain has been focussing primarily on handguns in a holster at the waist. I just don't think the open carry of long guns, especially big, black, scary ARs or AKs would have the same potential positive effect at this point, but maybe someday...
This makes me wonder... I wonder if it would be effective to start a "national unconcealed day," where concealed carry folks all decide to open carry for the day, with a couple rules like:
-Must be a handgun only and look like a handgun (e.g. no AR pistols, etc), preferably you concealed carry handgun, but in an open carry holster (or your concealed holster, but maybe with shirt tucked behind it, as long as it doesn't look weird... Not advised to swap out for your 44 mag with a 10 inch barrel... ;-) Just try to keep it as normal and unthreatening as possible. Remember the purpose here is not to rub it in people's faces, rather, to build awareness of how many GOOD people around them are carrying, and they just don't normally notice.
-No attitudes, no defiance of rules, arguing, raising of voices... If someone notices, don't make a big deal of it. If you're out shopping, and a fellow shopper notices, be nice, smile, don't tell them to mind their own f'in business, rather, just let them know, with a smile, "hey, I'm just picking up some groceries," and go back to what you're doing, and just ignore them, unless they engage you again, then always keep it nice, with a smile, even offer to shop a different area of the store for now, so they don't have to see you. Kill them with kindness.
-If engaged by a business owner that you know doesn't allow guns (i.e. its posted), then apologize and leave immediately.
-If engaged by a business owner that doesn't have anything posted and they are uncomfortable, then simply ask them if they'd mind if you quickly finished shopping, as this is your favorite store or closest store, even offer to cover it up, as to not raise concern from other shoppers, and if they deny that in anyway, just apologize, and leave nicely, with a smile on your face. No "smart"/sarcastic comments, lectures on the 2A, etc. Just be nice and leave.
-If engaged by law enforcement, same thing, no 2A lectures, show your CHL, but above all, be respectful, don't cause a scene, just let them know you're carrying for "national unconcealed day" (or maybe "national revealed day" or whatever catchy name we could come up with), and just don't start any trouble...
I'm sure their could be other rules/suggestions, but above all, the idea would be to make it a positive day, where nothing bad happens...
That said, maybe there are too many goofy people out there who wouldn't "follow the rules/guidelines" and it would only take one bad thing happening to quickly go the other direction with a lot of negative media attention, but if the proclamation of the "national <whatever we call it> day" was circulated through the media, people knew it was coming, and things went well, then it could maybe change the perceptions of some people, and by that, the course of things a bit...
So, there's my thought experiment for the day.
Thoughts/Comments?
Gun Discussion - I don't get it...
... Where the discussion turned to things like:
"Open carry is open and concealed is concealed. It's not Mix and Match"
"if a very small amount of my firearm is showing then I should just open carry instead?"
a "Partially Concealed Carry License" (hehe)
and... "OC posers seeking attention."
So, I wrote the comments below in response to that, but decided to start a new thread for comment on this idea, instead of asking for comment in the other thread and possibly derailing it (or derailing it further)... So, with that context in mind, here's my thoughts, and possible proposal...
I will open carry in the woods sometimes, but don't open carry in town much, both because I don't need any hassles, and because I see it as a tactical disadvantage to give away the presence of a weapon, should a situation arise. That said, my wife worries if I'm printing sometimes, and I really just don't worry about it. I have a CHL, so I'm legal for concealed, and open carry is legal in OR, so either way I'm legal, so I don't see any reason to get worked up about it.
As for open carry people wanting to get attention, there's an aspect of it that doesn't HAVE to be about getting attention (or at least not "overt" or "negative" attention for some ego-based desires), rather spreading awareness, that MIGHT work in some circumstances, for SOME people...
For example, let's say you go into a coffee shop or a grocery store and do nothing out of the ordinary, other than open carrying.... Some people might notice and be fine with it (maybe carrying themselves), some will surely hate it, but there might be others that don't really have a strong feeling one way or the other, and they might notice, see that you didn't do anything scary, and just went about your business, and it might slightly contribute to a "huh... nothing bad happened, I guess he/she wasn't some crazed madman, about to start some trouble."
I can't help but think that, over time, this might impact some of the anti-gun crowd that's just been scared by the media, but hadn't previous held any strong opinion on guns, and maybe even affect some with stronger feeling against guns, again, if they saw it often enough with nothing bad happening. Years ago, if people saw someone walk into a store with a bunch of tattoos, or maybe a mohawk, leather jacket, and chains, or maybe dressed in all black with a big ring through their nose and gauges in their ears, people's suspicion/concern might have risen, but these days, you see that so often, that people don't get as anxious as the might have years ago.
I think the "exposure to something different" than the norm, and not having a bad experience, over time, can make things less threatening.... Likewise, the homosexual movement has done the same kind of thing to great effect for their cause (i.e. put it in your face so often that people are just expected to get used to it, and many do)... So, I find myself wondering, maybe people should open carry more... I'm not 100% convinced, and it certainly does, at this stage of the game, put you at risk for hassles from people, but maybe it would help to some extent in the long run....
For self-defense, concealed carry is the way to go, in my opinion, but from an advocacy/normalization point of view, open carry, when done by an average, reasonable, otherwise respectful/respectable person, might be helpful in reducing the stigmatism about guns and their owners. No need for NRA hats or shirts with guns all over them, or anything else that might immediately identify you as the proverbial "idiotic gun nut" (save those for another day), rather just "normal looking people," with no obvious political leaning, no threatening demeanor, no big arguments/actions; People who, if viewed from one side, wouldn't cause the average person to look twice, but when viewed from the other side, just happen to have a handgun in a holster... No big deal.
Again, though I don't normally open carry, with regards to my wife's concerns about printing/showing, the things that go through my mind are: 1)I'm legal, 2)She's more likely noticing because she knows it's there, while others are less likely than her to notice (many people are often oblivious to those around them), and 3)if someone does notice, maybe it will have some of the effect mentioned above. My wife and I are pretty normal looking people, not really threatening looking, in any way I can think of, so if someone sees just some average guy, walking along with his pretty wife , smiling, just going about their business, maybe it could have a positive impact on someone's thinking... Therefore, while I try to keep it concealed, if it's noticed a little (and not because I'm seeking any attention), I just don't feel like it's a big concern (unless maybe I'm some place where I know it's not welcome, e.g. some place it's posted, then concealed means concealed, and I'd be more concerned).
BTW, as I'm thinking through this, my brain has been focussing primarily on handguns in a holster at the waist. I just don't think the open carry of long guns, especially big, black, scary ARs or AKs would have the same potential positive effect at this point, but maybe someday...
This makes me wonder... I wonder if it would be effective to start a "national unconcealed day," where concealed carry folks all decide to open carry for the day, with a couple rules like:
-Must be a handgun only and look like a handgun (e.g. no AR pistols, etc), preferably you concealed carry handgun, but in an open carry holster (or your concealed holster, but maybe with shirt tucked behind it, as long as it doesn't look weird... Not advised to swap out for your 44 mag with a 10 inch barrel... ;-) Just try to keep it as normal and unthreatening as possible. Remember the purpose here is not to rub it in people's faces, rather, to build awareness of how many GOOD people around them are carrying, and they just don't normally notice.
-No attitudes, no defiance of rules, arguing, raising of voices... If someone notices, don't make a big deal of it. If you're out shopping, and a fellow shopper notices, be nice, smile, don't tell them to mind their own f'in business, rather, just let them know, with a smile, "hey, I'm just picking up some groceries," and go back to what you're doing, and just ignore them, unless they engage you again, then always keep it nice, with a smile, even offer to shop a different area of the store for now, so they don't have to see you. Kill them with kindness.
-If engaged by a business owner that you know doesn't allow guns (i.e. its posted), then apologize and leave immediately.
-If engaged by a business owner that doesn't have anything posted and they are uncomfortable, then simply ask them if they'd mind if you quickly finished shopping, as this is your favorite store or closest store, even offer to cover it up, as to not raise concern from other shoppers, and if they deny that in anyway, just apologize, and leave nicely, with a smile on your face. No "smart"/sarcastic comments, lectures on the 2A, etc. Just be nice and leave.
-If engaged by law enforcement, same thing, no 2A lectures, show your CHL, but above all, be respectful, don't cause a scene, just let them know you're carrying for "national unconcealed day" (or maybe "national revealed day" or whatever catchy name we could come up with), and just don't start any trouble...
I'm sure their could be other rules/suggestions, but above all, the idea would be to make it a positive day, where nothing bad happens...
That said, maybe there are too many goofy people out there who wouldn't "follow the rules/guidelines" and it would only take one bad thing happening to quickly go the other direction with a lot of negative media attention, but if the proclamation of the "national <whatever we call it> day" was circulated through the media, people knew it was coming, and things went well, then it could maybe change the perceptions of some people, and by that, the course of things a bit...
So, there's my thought experiment for the day.
Thoughts/Comments?