Narrowing down my concealed carry choices

[Blitzkrieg]

The James Bond novels were written by someone who spent many years in actual secret service duty. Sure, they were fantasy women and events, but based upon reality. And the .380 carry was one of the realities for most effective concealed carry for skilled personel.

Then again, no one makes a pocket 9mm that I am aware of, and as well none larger than a PPK type will fit anything smaller than a medium sized man's hand.

Someone skilled with a .380 will trump any caliber in the hands of the more typically semi-skilled with a 44 mag. Different strokes for different folks. If you are 6'2" and 225 lbs you can easily find a .40 or 10mm that will far outdo a 9mm. Lucky you. If however you are 5'8" and 135, just not a practical option.

Sanow and Marshall studied real world shoots from around the world.. they discovered that with one solid torso hit:

The .380 with it's best loads had a 66% one shot stopping power rate

The 9MM with it's best load had a 90% stopping power rate

No comparison when you're facing a knife or gun at point blank range. Everyone that has ever been in a gunfight later wished they had more rounds and/or a bigger caliber

It's your life.. personally I would rather lug a bigger, heavier hitting piece around.. and I won't miss just because it's a 9MM/40/45. You are mixing apples and oranges with your "skilled with a .380 vs semi-skilled with a 10MM".. many of us are very skilled with the bigger calibers. BTW the .380, being a blow back weapon, kicks as hard or even harder than compact locking type 9MMs

BTW the .380 has very poor penetration with expanding hollow points and as a result many experts recommend ball ammo.. that leaves a tiny .25 caliber permanent wound channel, but at least it fully penetrates

 

[DoktorT]

Ummm...hello??? Rohrbaugh? 9mm and smaller than the PPK.

Indeed, and just how does that want to kick out of your grip compared to a 380 in rapid fire mode???

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Indeed, and just how does that want to kick out of your grip compared to a 380 in rapid fire mode???

Not bad at all. It is actually pretty tame. About the same as my PPK since the PPK is a blowback design. It is a heck of a lot easier to shoot than my Seecamp LWS380.

 

[DoktorT]

Ummm...hello??? Rohrbaugh? 9mm and smaller than the PPK.

So, Googled that and found a review. "Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm, $945. Conditional Buy. In addition to the ejection failures with the light-recoiling and wholly inappropriate (for this handgun) Winchester BEB ammo, we also had one failure to feed with PMC 124-grain FMJ ammo, and another with Speer’s Lawman sintered ammo."

Dependabilty questionable. Priced higher than a genuine German Walther PPK. Also shorter so less accurate. I will stick with my FEG SMC-380 PPK clone at less than $200, thank you very much. Superior for me for several reasons to my Sig P-230 at $550.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

So, Googled that and found a review. "Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm, $945. Conditional Buy. In addition to the ejection failures with the light-recoiling and wholly inappropriate (for this handgun) Winchester BEB ammo, we also had one failure to feed with PMC 124-grain FMJ ammo, and another with Speer's Lawman sintered ammo."

Dependabilty questionable. Priced higher than a genuine German Walther PPK. Also shorter so less accurate. I will stick with my FEG SMC-380 PPK clone at less than $200, thank you very much. Superior for me for several reasons to my Sig P-230 at $550.

Who did that review? I actually own one and have had zero issues. You might want to check out the Rohrbaugh forum. Lots of info there.

Do a search for issues with PPK's and their clones. You would never even consider one based on internet reviews.

 

[jamming]

I went through this a few months ago, Bought three pistols, Tauras TCP, Springfield XD .40 sub, Sig sauer p-238, So far the XD is the better gun and all the features for $469. The sig is a great gun and somewhat heavy.

Tauras for summer wear.
sig for suit and tie.
XD for trips to town.

 

[DoktorT]

Who did that review?

GUN-TESTS.COM, Volume 16 • Number 8 • August 2004

Also Googled the PPK. Found about 90%+ very high in reliability. Problems seem to be associated with ammo outside design specs. Stick to proper ammo and no issues at all, very highly rated for a true pocket pistol. Lots of LE's use it for both back up and off duty carry.

 

[GED]

Do a search for issues with PPK's and their clones. You would never even consider one based on internet reviews.

Many can be found over at Waltherforums.com.

Still, despite having read the negative posts on the Walther forum about the S&W PPK and PPK/S(mostly from the owners of the German/French or Interarms made Walthers)am very happy with my "post recall"
PPK-the way it shoots, carries, the fine workmanship-everything(BTW-also own a German made PPK/S).

 

[Phillyfan]

The P3AT is certainly small and concealable, but it's really not accurate at all.
Probably more of a BUG or occasional carry (e.g. formal wear)

I found mine to be very accurate, actually. And you can always add a laser sight.

 

[elsullo]

A couple of random additions I need to unload:

First, unless they have changed their routine in the last couple of years, Gun Tests Magazine shoots its test guns new and right out of the box. No cleaning; no lube. Most new guns are shipped nearly dry to keep the packaging from getting oily. Gun Tests just fires enough for their testing, which is not at all a realistic break-in. So in MY opinion Gun Tests reviews are all quite suspect.

Second, lots of people talk about "one-shot-stops" and the percentages of stops per round fired, but who in real combat is only going to fire once? To me it is more important to talk about "follow-up-shots" and how easily a gun or caliber is to get back on target and fire effectively. Two .380s on target could be more effective than one .45 which kicks the gun up to the sky! One-shot-stop percentages should not be the major consideration in choosing a caliber. I think controllability is the most important factor for self-defense........................elsullo

 

[deen_ad]

There is nothing at all wrong with a two gun rotation. I do suggest that you try to keep them as simar as possible regarding manual of arms. It helps to have the same basic firing procedure on both weapons you carry. That way you limit the possibility for confusion. I would say there is something wrong with trusting your life to a Kel-Tec though.

I would say there is nothing wrong with trusting your life to a Kel-Tec though.

 

[Mason]

I shoot CorBon DPX in my P3At.. Spreads out to almost half an inch.. I wouldnt want to get shot with it. This KT .380 dosnt have much for sights so it makes ya learn how to point shoot.. Thats a good thing. I dont think there will be much standing up stright with the weaver grip in SD. I can hold one handed and hit a paper plate at 21 feet all the time.. Its not a target gun but SD is not target shooting.. Dont get me wrong. Nothing wrong with good target practice session but real world you will not be standing feet apart knees bent, arms out straight, deep breath.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A couple of random additions I need to unload:

First, unless they have changed their routine in the last couple of years, Gun Tests Magazine shoots its test guns new and right out of the box. No cleaning; no lube. Most new guns are shipped nearly dry to keep the packaging from getting oily. Gun Tests just fires enough for their testing, which is not at all a realistic break-in. So in MY opinion Gun Tests reviews are all quite suspect.

Second, lots of people talk about "one-shot-stops" and the percentages of stops per round fired, but who in real combat is only going to fire once? To me it is more important to talk about "follow-up-shots" and how easily a gun or caliber is to get back on target and fire effectively. Two .380s on target could be more effective than one .45 which kicks the gun up to the sky! One-shot-stop percentages should not be the major consideration in choosing a caliber. I think controllability is the most important factor for self-defense........................elsullo

Four things

1) It is highly advisable to disassemble, inspect, completely clean and properly lube all new firearms before you head out to shoot. Manufacturing debris, small burrs asnd even serious defects can be dealt with this way, and as you say, proper break in lube is crucial

2) Additional followup shots may not have the desired effect.. some hopped up/and/or crazy people simply cannot be taken out with additional torso shots unless you solidly hit their spine. This is why the old Mozambique drill was developed.. two to the torso, then followup head shots

3) Caliber does matter.. most savvy gunners believe that the bottom floor for a primary self defense (handgun) weapon is 9MM + P or .38 Special +P, although some new non +P loads do look good on paper for the tiny compacts

4_ The .45 kicks the gun up into the sky? Have you ever fired one? The .45 ACP in a full size gun is a pu$$y cat!

 

[chemist]

Blitz, you are so right about .45ACP.
And have you ever seen the stats about how many (how few) shots are actually fired in the average encounter with a BG? We're not talking about patrolling Fallujah, after all!

If you can reliably, repeatably, accurately deliver your rounds in the ten-ring when under stress from your P3AT, then go for it - and more power to you. I can't. I won't CC with anything smaller than the 3.78" barrel of my Glock 36.

 

[deen_ad]

I don't know why maybe they had a bad experience with one. I had a P11 for many years it was my primary Concealed Carry handgun and I would carry one again. It was very reliable and I have had no problem with Kel Tec 9 mms. I can't personally vouch for their .380 or .32 and since you can get a 9 mm for not a big difference in price, size and weight why go that small unless ultra deep concealment is an issue. The P11 also has available a flush fitting 12 round factory magazine and it takes S&W 6900 and 5900 series magazines so it makes a great back up to them if you have one of those as I do. I currently have a Pf9 which has a slight edge in concealment being a little thinner and lighter but sacrifices magazine capacity holding only 7+1. Still better than a snubie 5 shot .38 which is what I traded in years ago to buy my first KelTec. I really like them both and people can decide for themselves whether 2 ounces and a 1/4 in narrower grip is worth sacrificing 3-5 rounds carrying capacity for each has their niche.

too. I have had several KT's, all the pistols have been carried IWB and I trusted them.

I still have several including a .223 rifle. The one I carried last was a P-40 (no longer made) with a .357 SIG barrel. It does require a FIRM grip or you get FTF's. In fact I think that's why they quit mking the P-40. Just too many were returned for "problems" that were probably owner induced. I carry a P-3AT or Ruger LCP with CT laser in my bathrobe. Kind of like my Charter Arms Bulldog (.44 Spec), made to carry a lot and shoot a little. No, the KT's aren't like a Khar, although the smaller Khar's might not take the beating the larger ones will either.

 

[gunmenu]

Sig just came out with the 290 and its a small 9mm. Not sure on the price but Im sure its up there with what I paid for my Khar pm9. The pm9 is a fantastic gun, and disapears anywhere including iwb, ancle, or even the pocket and its a 9mm! They come with 2 mags, a 6rd and a 7rd. Most of all its reliable and thats hard to find in a 9mm thats this small.

 

[toddt36]

Sig just came out with the 290 and its a small 9mm. Not sure on the price but Im sure its up there with what I paid for my Khar pm9. The pm9 is a fantastic gun, and disapears anywhere including iwb, ancle, or even the pocket and its a 9mm! They come with 2 mags, a 6rd and a 7rd. Most of all its reliable and thats hard to find in a 9mm thats this small.

Man I saw that one, looks super sweet, just out of my price range, but I am sure would make a **** of a CC.

 

[Rix]

Ruger sr9c

 

[BryonB]

What I carry....G19 with Hornady TAP

 

[SargentMac]

What I carry....G19 with Hornady TAP

What is that holster Bryon?