Narrowing down my concealed carry choices

[raindog]

A lot of good .380 load are better than typical .38 Special loads. A LOT of folks carry .38 special snubs and no one considers them underarmed.

At .380 and 9mm, you need to be a little more careful about the load. When you get to bigger rounds (.40), it's less critical.

 

[LibertyorDeath]

Check out the S&W M&P Compact. The full size is the best gun I have shot to date. Beats the Army M9 and the HK USP every day and twice on Thursdays.

 

[techieguy]

...and will hurt your hand every time you fire .45 through it :-(

.45 through a 5" steel 1911 - shoot it all day and love it.
.45 through a 3" aluminum 1911 - not so much.

Unless the gun is comfortable enough to go to the range and shoot a couple hundred rounds at a time, it's not worth carrying.

The Pro Carry is 4"... And I have shot is 200 round in one setting mutiple time when I was shooting practical pistol with my old Kimber. And they weren't light loads... All the guys where telling me reload my practice ammo much lighter!

Now maybe you are more recoil senitive than I am? I know I have sold a S&W 60 3" because it spanked my hand when shooting Self Defense 357mag. Shoot what is comfortable and fun... ymmv

 

[cyclesarge]

I've gone back and forth on .380. High cost, low availability, low power versus small package. Take away the "small package" advantage with a Beretta 85 Cheetah, and you make .380 pointless. I would only be interested in .380 in a VERY small package like the P3AT or the LCP where I could carry when any thing else would be too big. Guns like the KelTec PF9 and the Kahr MK's and PM's are smaller than the Beretta 85 Cheetah, wwith the advantage of cheaper more available, more powerful ammo.

 

[raindog]

Low availability...that's a point. It's not impossible to find .380 and in fact, in the space of a couple weeks back in September I put together 300 rounds just from local stores. But it's not as easy as buying other common ammo.

Explanation I heard was that .380 is made on the same equipment as 9mm, and since ammo factories were running 9mm full out, they never had time to make a batch of 380. However, something has freed up, as 380 is easier to find now.

Fisherman's in Delta Park or Keith's usually (or at least often) has 380 in stock.

 

[smithmax]

One of the reasons I went with the 709 was because I couldn't find any .380 for the Bersa I was looking at.

 

[wavo]

@cyclesarge
You bring up such a good point, one that I had been kicking around in my head all night last night. I love the feel of the Cheetah but it does seem silly to have a gun that big for such a smaller caliber when I can be shooting 9mm or .45 in the same size!

I have a feeling I will probably end up with 2 CC guns...and after seeing Playboy Penguin's carry rotation I think 2 in the rotation isn't too crazy. I'll probably get a small Kel Tec/Ruger LCP that I can carry when I'm unable to carry something bigger like a 9mm/.40/.45.

Now just gotta decide on the bigger one. I will check out that S&W M&P Compact, they have the full size at the gun shop and it's nice. I might just have to wait for the gun show in 2 weeks to have a chance to feel them all.

 

[cyclesarge]

That "hinged in the middle" trigger on the S&W's freaks me out. I'm sure they work fine but it just doesn't seem as tough as it should be.

 

[arjunki]

That "hinged in the middle" trigger on the S&W's freaks me out. I'm sure they work fine but it just doesn't seem as tough as it should be.

--------------------------------------------
That is the very reason I haven't gained interest in the breed myself!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

@cyclesarge
You bring up such a good point, one that I had been kicking around in my head all night last night. I love the feel of the Cheetah but it does seem silly to have a gun that big for such a smaller caliber when I can be shooting 9mm or .45 in the same size!

I have a feeling I will probably end up with 2 CC guns...and after seeing Playboy Penguin's carry rotation I think 2 in the rotation isn't too crazy. I'll probably get a small Kel Tec/Ruger LCP that I can carry when I'm unable to carry something bigger like a 9mm/.40/.45.

Now just gotta decide on the bigger one. I will check out that S&W M&P Compact, they have the full size at the gun shop and it's nice. I might just have to wait for the gun show in 2 weeks to have a chance to feel them all.

There is nothing at all wrong with a two gun rotation. I do suggest that you try to keep them as simar as possible regarding manual of arms. It helps to have the same basic firing procedure on both weapons you carry. That way you limit the possibility for confusion. I would say there is something wrong with trusting your life to a Kel-Tec though.

 

[rsmccsman]

Because you are a lefty I would say the xd 9 or xd 40 subcompact would fill the bill nicely as it has no safety and ambidextrous mag release. I believe others already made those points. Also their back up magazines Carry extra ammo. I believe they are about 20 ounces empty. If you were not a lefty I would recommend Taurus PT145 it is a compact 21 ounce 10 +1 45 acp at a reasonable price. However it only has a right handed safety. Also Keltec's p11 and pf9 are both light 14 and 12 ounces highly concealable 9mm handguns only a little bigger than their .380 and .32 cal. They are DAO so no safety and a lefty could make due with them in a pinch.

 

[kito109654]

They aren't lefty but I'll join those endorsing Kahr for EDC. I carry the affordable CW9 but if I had my druthers (the available funds) it would be a p45.

This gun is great for my needs. It points naturally and it's easy to conceal because of how thin and lightweight it is.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

The P3AT is certainly small and concealable, but it's really not accurate at all.
Probably more of a BUG or occasional carry (e.g. formal wear)

Very false, they are pretty accurate for a tiny gun.
Most people Ive watched shoot couldnt do this with a rifle..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6TVO-jONoM

I’ve read the threads and done a bit of my own research but I’m still torn between a few things….mainly on size of gun. I’m fine with 9mm and bigger not sure if I want to go down to .380 what are the thoughts on that? Also I vacillate between having a small ‘pocket pistol’ that I can literally put in my pocket to something that is a bit bigger. I’d most likely carry IWB or on my ankle.

Kelt-TecP38t & Ruger LCP – these are fine, inexpensive, I know I would have no problem carrying or concealing them but they're .380.

Anyways I’d love any feedback on my selection and if there are any pros/cons that I should know about. I agree with what Sheepdog said in the other thread about conceal carry “Buy what you will wear EVERYDAY”.
Very true

The .380 isnt very far off a 9mm power. For the size of the P3AT (Which I am carrying right now in my pocket) its much better than nothing. I also have a Glock17 (9mm, too big frame for me to carry), and a Glock36 (.45, small for a .45, yet not comfy for me to carry, still a tad on the large size). I love the Keltech P3at!

Its not like your shooting 50-100yds in a self defence situation typically anyway, and its definately better than nothing.

One of the reasons I went with the 709 was because I couldn't find any .380 for the Bersa I was looking at.

Went to my local sporting goods store, they had a wall of .380 in stock


Thats my .02

 

[benja455]

I noticed there were a few mentions of Kel-Tec .380s...and the PF-9 but only one passing note of the P11. I really recommend you check it out. Smallest "full capacity" (10+1) 9mm out there. My brother and I have both carried them for a good while now...not a single problem and amazing customer service. Get a Blackhawk nylon IWB size 1...you'll never look back.

I am curious to know why someone said they think its a bad idea to trust your life to a Kel-Tec...

 

[eriknemily]

Well I'm still undecided. Went to the gunbroker and they didn't have any Kahr CW9's...looked at the .40 XD Sub compact and a Walther...and many others.

Let me ask those of you that carry a .380 caliber, do you feel that it's powerful enough? I know it's no .44 magnum, just haven't spent much time shooting it.

Does anyone have any experience with a Beretta 85 Cheetah? They have a used one at the shop that I've been eyeing. Mainly b/c it's a miniature version of my 92FS but more importantly b/c I can make it 100% lefty. I like the idea of having one in the pipe and a safety I can switch off/on. Seems several of the compacts I have looked at have no safety.

For just $50 more they had a Para Ordinance Warthog (.45 cal) that was pretty sweet, but it just didn't feel as good as the Beretta.

Dayumn.

Dayumn, I carry an M&P 40 compact. It has complete left-handed operation. You can find these with a thumb safety so you can have one in the chamber with a manual safety. I am very pleased with my m&p.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but I can't overemphasize the importance of a quality holster that covers the trigger guard and is COMFORTABLE!!!! Many great options out there. I've ended up with a MTAC holster from <broken link removed>

 

[rsmccsman]

I noticed there were a few mentions of Kel-Tec .380s...and the PF-9 but only one passing note of the P11. I really recommend you check it out. Smallest "full capacity" (10+1) 9mm out there. My brother and I have both carried them for a good while now...not a single problem and amazing customer service. Get a Blackhawk nylon IWB size 1...you'll never look back.

I am curious to know why someone said they think its a bad idea to trust your life to a Kel-Tec...

I don't know why maybe they had a bad experience with one. I had a P11 for many years it was my primary Concealed Carry handgun and I would carry one again. It was very reliable and I have had no problem with Kel Tec 9 mms. I can't personally vouch for their .380 or .32 and since you can get a 9 mm for not a big difference in price, size and weight why go that small unless ultra deep concealment is an issue. The P11 also has available a flush fitting 12 round factory magazine and it takes S&W 6900 and 5900 series magazines so it makes a great back up to them if you have one of those as I do. I currently have a Pf9 which has a slight edge in concealment being a little thinner and lighter but sacrifices magazine capacity holding only 7+1. Still better than a snubie 5 shot .38 which is what I traded in years ago to buy my first KelTec. I really like them both and people can decide for themselves whether 2 ounces and a 1/4 in narrower grip is worth sacrificing 3-5 rounds carrying capacity for each has their niche.

 

[cyclesarge]

Very false, they are pretty accurate for a tiny gun.
Most people Ive watched shoot couldnt do this with a rifle..

Really? you're comparing the accuracy to a RIFLE? I think the operative part of this sentence is "for a tiny gun".

The .380 isnt very far off a 9mm power. For the size of the P3AT (Which I am carrying right now in my pocket) its much better than nothing. I also have a Glock17 (9mm, too big frame for me to carry), and a Glock36 (.45, small for a .45, yet not comfy for me to carry, still a tad on the large size). I love the Keltech P3at!

Here's the line on .380,
90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) Energy 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
Source: Federal Cartridge

Here's the line on 9mm,
7.45 g (115.0 gr) FMJ 390 m/s (1,300 ft/s) Energy 570 J (420 ft·lbf)
7.45 g (115.0 gr) JHP +P+ 435 m/s (1,430 ft/s) Energy 704 J (519 ft·lbf)
Source: Sellier & Bellot,C.I.P

Its not like your shooting 50-100yds in a self defence situation typically anyway, and its definately better than nothing.

This pretty much sums it up. .380 IS better than nothing, but I don't get it when you can get 9mm in a slightly larger package.

Went to my local sporting goods store, they had a wall of .380 in stock


Thats my .02

I'm sure that same store had 2 walls of 9mm in stock at near half the price.

 

[ZX10Aviator]

Really? you're comparing the accuracy to a RIFLE? I think the operative part of this sentence is "for a tiny gun".

Yes, point is, alot of people cant shoot anything worth a darn, accurate pistol or not...

This pretty much sums it up. .380 IS better than nothing, but I don't get it when you can get 9mm in a slightly larger package.

Thats just it, larger package. Why settle for 9mm when you can get a .40 for slightly larger, why settle for that when a .45 is slightly larger...

I'm sure that same store had 2 walls of 9mm in stock at near half the price.

They had a ton of 9mm, .223, 7.62x39.. you name it. Nothing is half price, or as low as it used to be though. Maybe we are lucky up here with ammo stocking, it used to be out, but everything is in at the moment. I even bought a bunch of small pistol primers to reload more 380 and 9mm...

Its all personal preference in the end anyway.
YMMV

 

[tionico]

you have mentioned the Kahr CW9. Small, lightweight (more felt recoil) lower price.

For almost the exact samr size and weight, their CW 40 is a better choice... though felt recoil will be even greater.

The K series, all metal, far more solid, heavier bit not overly so, considerably less felt recoil, is a better choice (I think) but comes a bit more dear. Available with factory night sights also. Again, given the negligible difference in size, price, and weight, the 40 S&W is far more attractive.

I searched for, and bought, the MK 40, tiny package (though significantly bigger and heavier than the LCP), huge firepower, VERY accurate. It also FEELS solid, precision, quality, I've talked to dome who have pocket carried this one continuously, taking no special care, and had it ALWAYS function flawlessly.Empty, it weighs less than an ounce more than the MK 9, list price almost identical. (I found mine used but as new for $600, factory night sights. Added CT grips....)


If your favourite dealer does not have a full selection of Kahrs, attend a large gunshow, call other dealers, whatever it takes to handle them. Then have your dealer get one in for you.

One of our members here has a pretty good selection of Kahrs in stock- find Ortwein International. He's FFL in both WA and OR, usually is at the Expo shows. Recommend you give him a try.

 

[krawl]

My $0.02- for a first carry gun look into something like a Glock, XD, M&P, etc or a revolver. I do like the small carry guns like LCP, but personally, I feel they're better as a back up for when you need something smaller.