My thoughts on the Stevenson Appleseed event

[Ironbar]

I'd like to get down some thoughts I have about the event today. I had to leave early from the event- right after lunch in fact, as I wasn't feeling too well. Hardly slept at all last night, and I was starting to get a headache in spite of being well hydrated. So, I had a nap when I got home, and I'd now like to lay out my pros and cons.

Things I liked:

1) The instructors/volunteers. I could tell right away that the people volunteering for the Appleseed event were both passionate and professional about what they were doing. The volunteers were both knowledgeable and courteous, and I enjoyed the first half of the day under their tutelage.

2) The instruction. It was well planned, and delivered in a manner that was easy to understand.

3) The history lesson. I really enjoyed hearing about the people, places, and events that led to the Revolutionary War.

4) The porta-potty. THANK you for having them there!

Things I disliked:

1) The weather, although you can't blame Appleseed for 100° heat and wind so strong it was blowing the pop-up tents over!

2) The range. Had any of the volunteers actually been to this place? Now I know why Skamania County is shutting it down: The Blue lake Range looks like a friggen' LANDFILL! I have never in my life seen a shooting range on public land that was as absolutely polluted as this place. "Environmental impact study" my arse. They're closing it because of all the *&%$! that drop their garbage there.

3) Relay shooting. I guess this harkens to #2. If any of the volunteers had been to the range, they would have already known that there was absolutely no way to put 28 shooters on the line. As such, we had to relay shoot which was time consuming and somewhat disorganized.

4) Consideration for stuff. I know it was cramped quarters on the line, but volunteers, please don't go tramping all over my brand new shooting mat! I don't like that.

5) Attitude toward the kids at the event. In the safety briefing, I felt that the portion of the monologue specifically directed toward the kids present was a little condescending. If you're asking them to be "more mature", then speak to them as such. Don't talk down to them.

6) Finally, the thing still sticks in my craw, and I'm not sure whether I'll ever come to grips with it: I carry a sidearm all the time. I was open carrying to the event. As I got out of my car, I was told I'd have to leave my weapon in the car as it was a safety issue. Really?

I take my carrying a sidearm very seriously. I consider safety a paramount issue. I overheard one of the volunteers say that the safety issue revolves around the weapon "sweeping" people when I would be shooting my rifle from a prone position. Really? My M&P can't be fired unless the trigger is pulled. I can drop it on the ground, twirl it around, hell I could stand on my head and it still wouldn't go off unless the trigger is pulled. You can pretty much say the same for any modern firearm these days. To say it's a safety issue is absurd.

Now, that said, I am 100% cognizant of the old adage, "Your house, your rules", so please don't even go there. If I choose to participate in another Appleseed event, I will of course comply, but it still doesn't change the absurdity of the issue.

Anyway, if I think of anything else I'll post it, but that's it in a nutshell. My overall impression is that it's good, it's beneficial, and I'll consider attending another in the future.

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[Zepoll]

I take my carrying a sidearm very seriously. I consider safety a paramount issue. I overheard one of the volunteers say that the safety issue revolves around the weapon "sweeping" people when I would be shooting my rifle from a prone position. Really? My M&P can't be fired unless the trigger is pulled. I can drop it on the ground, twirl it around, hell I could stand on my head and it still wouldn't go off unless the trigger is pulled. You can pretty much say the same for any modern firearm these days. To say it's a safety issue is absurd.

Now, that said, I am 100% cognizant of the old adage, "Your house, your rules", so please don't even go there. If I choose to participate in another Appleseed event, I will of course comply, but it still doesn't change the absurdity of the issue.

Well said.

Would have irked me as well.

 

[beavernation]

It is unfortunate that you fell ill and were unable to complete your weekend. I believe you would have been glad you did not have a handgun on your side by the end of the weekend. That said, Why do you feel it is neccessary to have an open carried handgun when you have a rifle in your hands? Everytime you dropped into the prone you would have been pointing your handgun at anyone who may have been behind you. If I were behind you I would not have been happy! Would you lay your loaded rifle down pointing backwards? I hope not. I don't see the difference? I have a CHL and I attended the Appleseed event in Redmond, Ore. so I have a bit of a perspective on this issue. I don't believe the rule is absurd at all. Shooting from the prone position with a handgun on your hip violates one of the four rules of gun safety "do not point your weapon at anything you are not willing to destroy".........I am a huge proponent of the 2nd Amendment but this is a rule to provide a common courtesy to the other shooters. If you would like to open carry your handgun and shoot it too, I will gladly invite you to an IDPA match at TCGC.

 

[Ironbar]

beavernation, by that logic I should never carry a sidearm at all because I might destroy the ground. Sounds silly I know, but that's the argument you just made.

As for why I desire to carry on the line, if ever there was a place to feel vulnerable, it's where dozens of shooters with rifles are gathered. Don't we as 2nd Amendment advocates trumpet the call that shooting violence can happen anywhere, at any time? If ever there was an opportunity for someone to go nutter-butters and start shooting, a gun range is practically prime time.

As for having a rifle in my hand, seriously? During the entire time I was there, I had my loaded rifle in my hands less than 5% of the time.

 

[Flyingswords]

Going to a 2nd Admendment event like the Appleseed shoot, then they say you cant carry into it? Sounds like a double standard to me.

 

[Ironbar]

Well you know, like I said, their house, their rules. I can't really complain about it that much. Would have been nice to know beforehand though. Besides, I don't think it's really a 2nd Amendment event per se.

 

[beavernation]

beavernation, by that logic I should never carry a sidearm at all because I might destroy the ground. Sounds silly I know, but that's the argument you just made.

As for why I desire to carry on the line, if ever there was a place to feel vulnerable, it's where dozens of shooters with rifles are gathered. Don't we as 2nd Amendment advocates trumpet the call that shooting violence can happen anywhere, at any time? If ever there was an opportunity for someone to go nutter-butters and start shooting, a gun range is practically prime time.

As for having a rifle in my hand, seriously? During the entire time I was there, I had my loaded rifle in my hands less than 5% of the time.

"destroy the ground":huh:.......really?.......My logic is that you would be pointing your handgun at anyone behind you when you go prone! No disrespect but I don't know you, maybe you are carrying a 1911 "cocked and locked" but you forgot to "lock" it? Maybe you are home gunsmith who has "lightened" the trigger on your M&P? Again, would you place your loaded rifle on the ground beside you pointing backwards??????.......Seriously, when was the last time their was a mass shooting at a gun range? The only time I ever feel vulnerable at a gun range is when I get a swept by a muzzle or have a gun inadvertently pointed at me:angry:!........I totally respect your right to carry but this is the second topic in as many days stating that the Appleseed is infringing on our rights. I just hate to see this be a factor in someones decision not to attend. We need more "Rifleman" in this country and the Appleseed Project is an excellent low cost way to learn marksmanship fundamentals!!!..........If you are able to attend either Appleseed at DRRC this fall, look me up and we can talk 2nd Amendment freedoms given to us by our "Rifleman" of the Revolutionary War!!!......I'm out.....

 

[Ironbar]

beavernation,

Dude, rest your sphincter! You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Never once did I say that Appleseed was infringing on my rights. If you'll look closely at my original post, I merely said I didn't like it. That's all.

 

[mosinguy]

my only thought is all the time in the military with a side arm proned out and all my buddies behind me hmmmmmmmmmmmm never shot a one of them,and sometimes i wore a shoulder rig glad i didnt down any of our planes..... man we would have been screwed while in the military with rules like that........ just my .02

 

[XSubSailor]

Well, I spent both days in the sweltering heat for this event (keep in mind you don't get to pick the weather when you have to fight) and here are my impressions:

I agree with the positives he stated...all of the RWVA staff are passionate volunteers who truly believe in what they're doing. They are quick to dispel myths that they are a recruiting arm for militia groups or a means to incite the public to take up arms against the government.

As someone born and raised in New England (MA and NH), the heritage sessions were not unfamiliar stories to me...every town has their own historical society, local museum w/historian that keeps the local history and legends alive for posterity. Since I've moved to to the west coast, it appears that the impression out here is that US History did not exist until the Lewis & Clark expedition and the Oregon Trail (also a truly inspirational chapter in history). Being able to put names to the sacrifices of our forefathers helps us to appreciate the sacrifice they willingly faced to ensure our lasting liberty in this country. And hopefully, it inspires the rest of us to jealously guard the liberty they provided us by their very personal sacrifices. Another analogy that stuck with me was understanding how and when to use, and transition from the mailbox, to the soapbox, the ballot box, and as a last resort (as our forefathers did) the cartridge box.

I have to disagree with Jeff and defend the organizers on the condition of the range...There is no doubt it is a pigsty (which is likely the reason the county is closing it permanently effective TODAY...after successful lobbying by Appleseed to keep it open long enough to hold the event.) They did do a fairly extensive cleanup on the day prior, but in all honesty, that place needs an army of bulldozers or a tactical nuke to properly clean up that range. They chose the range due to anticipated high demand...which proved true, and the knowledge that with the imminent closing of the range, this would likely be the last opportunity to do an event in this immediate vicinity

My only gripe on the range operations was that it's difficult to remove a rifle from the line for routine cleaning. I understand the safety issues of cleaning a rifle in the open, but I might suggest a "cleaning station" be set up in a separate area to allow for this in future events. My rifle accuracy went to crap in the afternoon yesterday and started to suffer magazine malfunctions. I had a centerfire rifle with me and switched over, but would have preferred to work out some more bugs in my technique with my rimfire, before being forced to switch over. In addition, my centerfire (M1 Garand) was ejecting hot brass into the high (and dry) grass and I was concerned about starting a fire and losing my milsurp brass that I worked hard to prep for reloading. Between that and the heat (again, not their fault) I sat out the last hour or so.

As far as the sidearm issue. It wasn't a big deal for me. I knew it would be uncomfortable transitioning between different shooting positions (especially with the heat) and anything I could do to lighten the load was OK by me and I left my pistol locked in the console vault of my vehicle. Some of the instructors carried sidearms (as is typical of many RSO's) to readily dispatch a rogue shooter who might take advantage of the situation. That being said, I typically carry from dawn to dusk wherever I am, including my own home. I'm all for a safety first attitude...especially when I'm in the company of shooters I'm not familiar with, who may not share the same safety philosophies or be as safety conscious as I am. I'm the first to leave the firing line at a range if there's a bubba next to me I feel the least bit concerned about.

All and all, it was a very positive experience and I will attend more of these, and have expressed my willingness to volunteer for the project.

To the Appleseed organizers (George, Brian, RL, Joe, Shawn Marie and anyone whose name I forgot)...thanks again, and feel free to use any of my comments above in any way you see fit.

R/
Brian Hall

 

[Ironbar]

My only gripe on the range operations was that it's difficult to remove a rifle from the line for routine cleaning. I understand the safety issues of cleaning a rifle in the open, but I might suggest a "cleaning station" be set up in a separate area to allow for this in future events. My rifle accuracy went to crap in the afternoon yesterday and started to suffer magazine malfunctions. I had a centerfire rifle with me and switched over, but would have preferred to work out some more bugs in my technique with my rimfire, before being forced to switch over. In addition, my centerfire (M1 Garand) was ejecting hot brass into the high (and dry) grass and I was concerned about starting a fire and losing my milsurp brass that I worked hard to prep for reloading. Between that and the heat (again, not their fault) I sat out the last hour or so.

Brian,

Excellent point! As I've been told, .22 rimfire ammo is notoriously dirty. It's no surprise your rifle went south after shooting for a while. I'd like to see a cleaning area as well!

 

[Kimber Custom]

Things I disliked:

1) The weather, although you can't blame Appleseed for 100° heat and wind so strong it was blowing the pop-up tents over!

Yep, it was hot

2) The range. Had any of the volunteers actually been to this place? Now I know why Skamania County is shutting it down: The Blue lake Range looks like a friggen' LANDFILL! I have never in my life seen a shooting range on public land that was as absolutely polluted as this place. "Environmental impact study" my arse. They're closing it because of all the *&%$! that drop their garbage there.

This was the second shoot (my first) at Stevenson. From my understanding the range condition was far worse than the first time. This was addressed during the Sunday morning briefing

3) Relay shooting. I guess this harkens to #2. If any of the volunteers had been to the range, they would have already known that there was absolutely no way to put 28 shooters on the line. As such, we had to relay shoot which was time consuming and somewhat disorganized.

When the first event occured it became clear that the line could only support 12-14 shooters and relays would be necessary. There had been talk of canceling the second event but more than 14 people had pre-registered so it was too late to change for the second event. In this case, due to the heat, I think the relays were a blessing but it was a little rough getting started. Sunday ran far smoother. I'm sorry you missed it.

4) Consideration for stuff. I know it was cramped quarters on the line, but volunteers, please don't go tramping all over my brand new shooting mat! I don't like that.

I'm sorry I stepped on your mat (I'm sure I did since i cleared lines both days). I tried not to but the line was so tight that it was difficult not too. I do wish that we had a route that other shooters could use to get to the target line so it's just the RSO's that have to dance around equipment. This will be a suggestion of mine at future events.

5) Attitude toward the kids at the event. In the safety briefing, I felt that the portion of the monologue specifically directed toward the kids present was a little condescending. If you're asking them to be "more mature", then speak to them as such. Don't talk down to them.

I understand your point.

6) Finally, the thing still sticks in my craw, and I'm not sure whether I'll ever come to grips with it: I carry a sidearm all the time. I was open carrying to the event. As I got out of my car, I was told I'd have to leave my weapon in the car as it was a safety issue. Really?

I actually believe this to be an insurance issue cleaverly disguised as a safety issue.

I take my carrying a sidearm very seriously. I consider safety a paramount issue. I overheard one of the volunteers say that the safety issue revolves around the weapon "sweeping" people when I would be shooting my rifle from a prone position. Really? My M&P can't be fired unless the trigger is pulled. I can drop it on the ground, twirl it around, hell I could stand on my head and it still wouldn't go off unless the trigger is pulled. You can pretty much say the same for any modern firearm these days. To say it's a safety issue is absurd.

Now, that said, I am 100% cognizant of the old adage, "Your house, your rules", so please don't even go there. If I choose to participate in another Appleseed event, I will of course comply, but it still doesn't change the absurdity of the issue.

Anyway, if I think of anything else I'll post it, but that's it in a nutshell. My overall impression is that it's good, it's beneficial, and I'll consider attending another in the future.

I'm glad you found value and I hope to see you back on the line

 

[XSubSailor]

Brian,

Excellent point! As I've been told, .22 rimfire ammo is notoriously dirty. It's no surprise your rifle went south after shooting for a while. I'd like to see a cleaning area as well!

I just finished cleaning my 10/22. The entire chamber was coated w/ lead, not powder residue and crud, but lead...to the point I couldn't push a jag through. I could actually feel resistance when it entered the chamber. I had to soak the bore in solvent all day in order to break it loose with a jag, a patch, and a small mallet...then out popped a chunk of lead the same diameter of my chamber. About another half hour scrubbing the barrel with solvent and a nylon brush, let it sit a while, then a bronze brush....more lead slivers, and finally able to get a clean patch through. I was shooting Remington Thunderbolt ammo because it has proven most accurate out of about 5 types I evaluated...but it ain't worth all this. Time to try something else.

 

[Ironbar]

Wow!! That majorly sucks Brian. Hey, I like the bulk Federal copper jacket. Works very well for me with no lead fouling like what you described.

 

[fry]

I believe you would have been glad you did not have a handgun on your side by the end of the weekend.

please enlighten us all.