My Response To My Liberal Cousin about DC

[RVTECH]

Wasn't that terrible about the guy shooting up the DC military base killing 13 people with his AK47. This is why we need better background checks on crazy people buying assault rifles and hand guns with 32 round clips. (My Opinion).

Uh, don't mean to start a debate but it was an AR-15/M-16 (not an AK 47) Also he apparently had a shotgun and a handgun (not yet identified so we don't even know if it used magazines - it could have been a revolver.)

There is nothing conclusive about the ownership of the AR-15/M-16 he used. There is speculation he may have shot a guard and taken his weapon (the AR-15/M-16).

DC is a 'gun free' zone with some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. So if they have the some of the toughest laws why weren't they working - especially on a Military Base? That also brings up another question - why was the security so lax and complacent? It appears there was no response by base security.

Also there is the issues of his security clearance. If he was 'crazy' Why did he have a clearance at all with TWO (2) previous firearms charges - and possibly other issues?

I am afraid the 'antis' cannot AT ALL point to guns on this one considering the extenuating circumstances, IE on a Military Base, lax security and his security clearance he should have possibly NOT had. This is was not a school or a theater.

One final point. One of my handguns utilizes 16 round magazines. I have proven to many people how fast I can swap mags, almost not even skipping a beat so this whole 'magazine capacity' issue is really a non-issue. Even the Colt M1911 .45 (the cornerstone of all semi-automatic handguns) can have it's 8 round mags swapped just as quickly.

Please try to understand the reality of this and see if you can consider the bigger picture and NOT just focus on the guns here.

I may have generalized and oversimplified it but I am trying to get him to see the WHOLE picture here and not just focus on guns.

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[Ironbar]

Sounds great, except a 1911 is a SEMI-automatic.

 

[RVTECH]

Corrected, but he at least DOES understand this difference

 

[Caveman Jim]

I hear ya RVT, there is no reasoning with liberals who tout gun control instead of gun violence. It's these mentally ill people that are protected by federal laws like HIPPA and a host of others. This country is beyond help the way it has been managed the last 50 years!!!

 

[cookie]

Obama is in trouble so there is another shooting to get the press off of him? Am I becoming too cynical? Or could it be one of Obamas sons?

 

[RBid]

This is why it is retarded to leap to immediate response.

Current reports are that there was no AR or AK. They're saying that he took a shotgun, and acquired a pistol on scene.

Best practice is to avoid a knee jerk reaction and respond to early hysteria by calmly suggesting that we wait for the details. They're still in speculation mode.

 

[drew]

This is why it is retarded to leap to immediate response.

Exactly. Look at Feinstein's reaction.

 

[BAMCIS]

RVT you will never "win" an argument in which the opposition's opinion has been reached through emotion. They will not listen to nor even acknowledge logic. I've never met a liberal who didn't reach their opinion (no matter what it is) based in some sort on emotion.

One of my guilty pleasures of living in the People's Republic of Eugene is simply driving around in my gas guzzling Chevy Tahoe sporting my tastefully placed stickers of a silhouetted AR and ".45ACP Because shooting twice is just silly" because I know it just sends them into orbit. They get sent into orbit so easily because they reached their opinions based on emotion.

 

[2ndtimer]

All the mainstream media incorrectly but enthusiastically reported that the suspected shooter used an "AR-15 Assault Rifle" in the Naval Yard shootings. Now, at least Fox News has acknowledged that the weapons used were the shotgun the perp purchased, (back ground checks don't stop crazy people who lie on BATF forms) and two pistols taken from a police officer and security guard he shot with the shotgun. So shotgun and 2 stolen handguns from professional security people. The only AR-15's on the scene were those in the hands of responding law enforcement and may well have been used to stop the shooter. Won't hold my breath waiting for corrections from the mainstream media or knee jerk politicians to retract their usual high capacity magazine diatribes.

 

[pokerace]

Did any one notice that he was using 3 shot bursts?????

 

[2ndtimer]

Did any one notice that he was using 3 shot bursts?????

That could have been law enforcement engaging the shooter. Does anyone know if LE has select fire M4's? It seems that relatively few people visually witnessed the shooter. Most of the survivors are just "ear witnesses".

 

[RVTECH]

RVT you will never "win" an argument in which the opposition's opinion has been reached through emotion.

Fortunately my cousin is not a 'true' liberal, he is more of a moderate who is confused because he does not know the truth. He is not an 'anti' at all (heck, he was telling me he was thinking of buying a Glock) - he just needs some 'tweeking' to clear him up on some of the untruths he is hearing and does not quite understand. (kind of like the gunshow loophole)

 

[Mark W.]

CBS NEWS is reporting from the FBI the Shooter used a valid Navy ID to enter the yard. Used a Shotgun bought legally at a West Virginia Gun shop (he had no convictions and his crazy behavior had not reached the level of professional's involvement) While he did have a handgun removed from a security guard it was not used.

So basically there's nothing here to see. No scary gun, no gun show loop hole, no criminal background, no terrorist

 

[Jim Colvill]

These are the facts I've heard to date via the LEOs and DC Mayor in press conferences:
1. The shooter went in with only a shotgun
2. The shooter gained the AR15/M4 and the pistol from a guard (I wonder if the AR was actually a selective fire. Nothing has been said yet)
So...scratch one anti argument.
3. The shooter purchased the shotgun in Virginia.
Using my google-fu skills I've learned that Virginia has background checks; the 4473 has to filled out. Out of state purchasers may only purchase rifles or shotguns; handguns cannot be sold to out of staters.
So the "background check" argument is nullified.

You can't ban assault people.

 

[oknow]

These are the facts I've heard to date via the LEOs and DC Mayor in press conferences:
1. The shooter went in with only a shotgun
2. The shooter gained the AR15/M4 and the pistol from a guard (I wonder if the AR was actually a selective fire. Nothing has been said yet)
So...scratch one anti argument.
3. The shooter purchased the shotgun in Virginia.
Using my google-fu skills I've learned that Virginia has background checks; the 4473 has to filled out. Out of state purchasers may only purchase rifles or shotguns; handguns cannot be sold to out of staters.
So the "background check" argument is nullified.

You can't ban assault people.

sure you can and it will be just effective as a gun free zone stopping a bg

 

[Bruin]

RVTECH, Does your cousin realize that most all of the crazy mentally ill mass murders are registered Democrats and the majority of all violent crimes committed in this country are committed by Obama supporters?

 

[RBid]

All the mainstream media incorrectly but enthusiastically reported that the suspected shooter used an "AR-15 Assault Rifle" in the Naval Yard shootings. Now, at least Fox News has acknowledged that the weapons used were the shotgun the perp purchased, (back ground checks don't stop crazy people who lie on BATF forms) and two pistols taken from a police officer and security guard he shot with the shotgun. So shotgun and 2 stolen handguns from professional security people. The only AR-15's on the scene were those in the hands of responding law enforcement and may well have been used to stop the shooter. Won't hold my breath waiting for corrections from the mainstream media or knee jerk politicians to retract their usual high capacity magazine diatribes.

Lying on the 4473 doesn't work. When your identifying information (name, birth date, social, etc) are processed, the real answers pop up. The answers a buyer puts down for the Y/N questions aren't even submitted. The issue was not lying or that background checks don't work. They simply can't report information that never gets recorded in the first place.