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My proposal for gun law changes - I want none, but would consider this:

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by jimboshooter, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. jimboshooter

    jimboshooter West Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    To be clear, I would like to see no ban placed on gun ownership and no laws changed. I think it is unconstitutional and it will not cure the ills driving this desire.

    But, if we have to give on something, and President Obama and Wayne LaPierre put me on speaker phone telling me they can't seem to get to common ground, here is what I would suggest.

    Let me know if you like none of it, all of it or some of it or have other ideas.

    • Allow teachers to conceal or open carry in all schools. Or if this is unpaletable, allow teachers to carry non-lethal tasers.
    • Provide training to all teachers who choose to conceal carry or open carry.
    • Provide well trained security for every school. I agree with Wayne. We gaurd every other important thing in our life with a gun, why not our kids. We gaurd or president, our money, our banks, some private buildings, movie stars, airports, etc. But this can't be TSA level professional. It has to be someone with real training. Maybe a local law enforcement rotation.
    • Mandatory security upgrades for all schools. Ensuring entrances are controlled, there is security, bullet proof glass in the front and panic buttons in all rooms.
    • Mandatory security doors for each classroom that can be locked from the inside in the case of an emergency.
    • Provide a law that allows schools to engage public volunteers who are trained to provide free security for local schools. Provide a means for a tax deduction of the time spent by the citizen as a charitable contribution.
    • Include a tax on all gun purchases and gun transfers of $25 (+/- to get it to fund right - I am not stuck on a number. It could be $100) to pay for security and upgrades in every school and training for teachers who carry. Add a small tax of 10% for every ammo sale as well.
    • Limit magazines to 30 rounds. This one you might have to give up and go to 10 rounds. Not sure you can avoid that at this point.
    • All sales require FFL. No gun show loop holes (I know there is no loop hole in Oregon, but in other states there are) and no FTF sales with out FFL.
    • Require standardized FFL background checks against a db maintained at the national level.
    • Mandatory 1 week waiting period on purchases.

    As a fall back to resistance, you could ban semi-automatic rifles that have evil features and limit ownership to people who belong to US approved local 3rd line defense militias that follow certain strict training regiments including annual training with national gaurd or US military. Those militias could have the ability to report any individual they feel may not have a solid mental foundation to the US db for flagging as potential restriction. So, you would at worst case only need to convince a militia of your peers that you were mentally sound. I just think there should be an AR/AK & hi cap magazine ownership path for us sane people. Not sure if would really help since the armed forces have crazy people too. This militia part is just a brain storming idea. Not sure if I like it or not. Mulling it over.
  2. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    There isn't a "gun show loophole" anywhere in the US!
    Any purchase from a licensed dealer has to go through the NICS check no matter if it's at a gun show or the dealers place of business.
    Any person can sell their privately owned weapon to any legal buyer anytime, anywhere (except in OR that is).

    OP must be one of the members from the "other side" trying to get people to accept more anti-gun laws!
  3. Mrand55

    Mrand55 Salem Member

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    I think that is a bit much. First off, I think one possible idea for a stop gap would start training National Guard troops right now to work security for the schools. Would not be a total fix but would be something to maybe use until they could get some kind of program in (preferably not another government bureaucracy though). I don't think we need any new taxes to pay for it. I'm sure they can find money somewhere if they really wanted to. Also, they part about a 3rd line defense militia is something that just wouldn't work. You're looking to have your "peers" atest that you are mentally sound, but how easy would it be since there is a decent amount of our polulation that is very anti-2A, so it wouldn't take much for them to either make themselves get a say or infiltrate and become your "peers". They already think gun owners are crazy. All for the extra security at the schools but we cannot give an inch on our guns. If gun owners start giving in to the anti's, that will only show them weakness and they will exploit that through the media to show we need more gun control. Your plan would work in a society of like minded citizens, but there are too many differences. Gotta stand strong, don't give them anything.
    novamind and (deleted member) like this.
  4. jimboshooter

    jimboshooter West Portland, Oregon Active Member

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    Not from the "other side." Just trying to think things thru. It's gonna happen. Was just trying to think thru what I could live with not what I want.
  5. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Need to address mental health as well. There needs to be a mechanism in place where the Lanza's, Cho's, and Loughner's of the world are identified. The big time crux is how do you keep guns out of their hands if they haven't been violent? How do you keep guns out of their hands but not infringe on their rights specifically the 2nd.
  6. nwdrifter

    nwdrifter troutdale oregon Active Member

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    ok here is my take on what we need to do to stop or slow the shootings

    1) grow a set of balls (key)
    2) kill the murderers in prison along with those with life without parole. Why pay 80k a year for these people.
    3) Let the pot crimes out of prison to free up bed space (no i do not do pot) just that we let bad guys out for lack of space while some pot head has a bed, murders should never get out but now they do.
    4) make jail 23 hours a day confined to cells,eliminate tv and cookies and other cool stuff. Its punishment not free room and board.

    step 2 and 3 will free up 50% of the beds in prisons so we can actually keep some bad guys in jail where they belong.

    5) go back to locking crazy people up. Way to many mentally dangerous people on the street. But we are to nice to lock them up until they hurt someone and then we only lock them up until they are ok, ya like their ever ok.
    6) mandate mentally ill people cant have guns in the household, just like felons. Don't want to loose your 2nd amendment commit them.
    7) stop the 24/7 news coverage that makes these people heroes to the freaks.
    8) Hire returning vets (of sound mind) to stand guard at schools, If we have to fire one teacher to hire a vet that's fine with me. Actually with what teachers make we could fire one and hire 2 vets. Liberal teachers are just terning our kinds into liberals anyway.
    9) start locking punk kids with violent crimes in juvy, yes even at 7 years old. Set a flipping example in the big house and little house.
    10) cancel section 8 housing and free phones period
    11)cut food stamps,welfare and yes unemployment to 25% of what they get paid now. If you dont pay a living wage people will get off their butt because they have to. To many people wornt work because they make the same on unemployment or free checks. I'm also tired on being the only one in the store checkout not using a food stamp card.
    12)require all people on the above free gov checks to do 10 hours of community service work a week to get their free check. Leaves them 30 hr a week to look for work.
    13)mandatory drug test for all those receiving a free check, you fail once and your banned for 5 years. Workers have to Pee so should you.
    14) stop allowing people to go on disability just because they are fat, or get head aches. saying that fat and work is bad for their heart, To bad quit eating so much food stamp food and get a job. Get out of the free scooter at the store and walk, god know you need it. Scooters are for old people not fat people
    15) get out of every other countries business, no free money, food, solders or wars unless they start the war then quit fighting with a hand tied behind you back, smash them fast with everything you can drop o them and get out. No need for troops. If some place like Kuwait wants our help sign a deal for 70% of their oil for free for 50 years. Like it of leave it. Don't try to buy friends with money or free guns that doesnt work. Sorry if your town in the desert cant grow crops, MOVE. I you have no water MOVE. Living in the same piece of crap desert for 40 years relying on food shipments from other countries really.

    Look we also just fixed the dept.

    we give away to many free rides allowing people to be lazy takers. This is not giving them a sense on self worth and dignity. We will soon be over the cusp of 50% takers and workers will be in the minority making workers loose elections for ever because the takers only vote one way.

    Really the country will be a better place with just step 1. "Grow some balls" quit being P.C, say what's on your mind. That's the reason for the first amendment. We now live in what i call a cute and fuzzy bunny society. Everyone wants to be P.C and not say anything that would hurt someones feelings. Everyone just want to hug everyone, sorry but some people dont need a hug they need slapped or locked up.

    Notice the only gun issue was taking guns from the homes the the crazy people? The rest is a social problem that leads to the violence and crime.

    My non P.C 2 cents
  7. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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    GIVE AN INCH AND THEY WILL TAKE A MILE.. This is how it starts..You want to give up some of MY Freedom.
    saabin, good2eat, notazombie and 5 others like this.
  8. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    we have always been the one's to give on gun control and thinking this way is how they did it. how about some reasonable gun laws. Like since we have so many gun laws that don't work how about getting rid of half of those gun laws that would be reasonable then we will start working on the other half latter. that is the only reasonable thing to do.
    and doing this think of how many live's will be saved.
    pokerace and (deleted member) like this.
  9. timac

    timac Loading Magazines! Well-Known Member

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  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    You were doing well until the last 5 items, which are useless and pointless concessions to hysteria, and are utterly unconstitutional
    pokerace and (deleted member) like this.
  11. notazombie

    notazombie Hillsboro->Marsing Well-Known Member

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    I don't think we need to start giving up anything. There hasn't even been any "official" proposed ban on anything yet. It do think it is coming.
    -Allowing teachers (if they wish) to carry is obvious. Training should be provided and mandatory if they do. Hand-to-hand should be offered as well.
    -A TSA-type govt. employee is NOT the answer. Same goes with LEOs. We have enough govt. employees already. I like the idea of returning vets as guards. They have the training and discipline. But I think non-union, private contractors will not only provide higher quality individuals, but also a lower cost. I wouldn't mind if requirements/standards were set at a national level but the hiring should be done at a local level. Rent-a-cops need not apply.
    -The buildings need improved security too. It'd be nice if they don't resemble a prison though. We need to keep bad people out -- not lock our kids in.
    -Putting a transfer tax on sales is stupid. That's like saying only people who buy lighters should pay for all the firefighters. We all pay for public schools. This is just part of that. I think the increase in taxes would be negligible in the grand scheme of things.
  12. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    How many more laws do we need that do not work? I don't know how many gun laws we have but I often hear quotes in the 50,000 range.

    If laws worked then we would need NO gun laws. EVERY shootings (non self defense) that has taken place DOZENS of laws. So if someone is willing to break say 25 laws why would they be willing to follow the "new" 26th law?

    If laws worked all you would need is one and it does not even address firearms. That law would read something to the effect of "it is illegal to harm/kill another person except in cases of self defense".
  13. thirtycal

    thirtycal Camas, WA Active Member

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    The OP needs to rethink his ownership. I'm afraid of these kinds of gun owners. Dude ... You Do NOT give in to concessions like this.... Especially any idea that lawful gun owners or purchases should be taxed to fund protection mechanisms due to criminals actions. That is absolutely a terrible idea a nd the most slippery of slippery slopes.
  14. beavertonbuck

    beavertonbuck Beaverton Active Member

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    I agree with teachers being able to carry and even public volunteers being present at the school if they are properly vetted. I also believe that the security in schools can be protected and assess controlled as long as the school doesn't become a prison for the kids. That being said I have a problem with all your other points.

    1. We do not need a police in every school. If you remove the emotion from the school shootings you will see that elementary/high school shootings are extremely rare and once a police officer is placed in a school they aren't going to leave. This police officer is then going too shift their focus from protecting students. To looking at students as criminals to justify their position.

    2. You cannot tax a right. That being said and out of the way, legal gun owners should not bear the burden of paying for the crimes of others.

    3. Magazine size restrictions. Below is a link that discusses this thoroughly and I don't have the knowledge to verify what he said. The point that is made is that people who commit these crimes dictate the terms of the engagement. Therefore if they are unable to find 30 round magazines (in and of itself unlikely) they will carry multiple weapons or stop at strategic points to reload. That will keep they from being tackled or subdued while reloading. Another point that I would add to this as someone who has to use their gun defensively you do not get to set the terms. You don't get to decide whether one or eight people break into your home. Therefore the magazine restriction is most detrimental to honest gun owners who could find themselves up against multiple criminals and limited magazine capacity.

    4. Not sure what you mean about the background checks. All purchased through an FFL go thru NCIS. Though some states, like Oregon, chose to utilize the State Police to perform this task the procedure is the same. You might be talking about better reporting of people who have been precluded from gun ownership due to being committed and to that I agree. However that is the fault of the states poor management of this issue and should not reflect poorly on us gun owners.

    5. Most spree shooters do not commit these crimes on an impulse. These are well planned out events that can take days or months for the shooter to finalize. Again this is just a burden on honest gun owners because it doesn't address the "Steal the AR-15 from your friend" or "Kill your mother in the and take her guns" loopholes.

    Here is a link that discusses in length gun control and its shortcomings: An opinion on gun control « Monster Hunter Nation
  15. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    When the gov is talking about mental health they really are not talking about helping people. The people they are really referring to are those that disagree with gov, the protestors and the like. Every tyrannical gov (inc those that are in full transition to same) refer to those that disagree with gov as 'needing help.'
    There will be re-education classes and camps, etc, to 'help' such people back into the fold. "Mental" is only "Heathy" when it is following the herd.
    oknow and (deleted member) like this.
  16. rumblebee1967

    rumblebee1967 Bellingham Active Member

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    If everyone would follow the original law there would not be a problem "Thou Shalt not kill". Unfortunately all laws are free to be broken by those who chose. More laws will not work. The physical presence of a strong deterrent will work in most cases. Those who chose targets choose the easiest target, not the most defended.
    Mrand55 and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

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    OP - the first six, although reasonable, will never happen because those are private/civilian solutions. The gov wants individuals complete un-empowered. Goons w/ ARs walking up and down school hallways like the TSA is what they want, at malls, at churches, at theaters - all checking your 'papers.' TPTB are a tiny group. They can only control the masses if the masses agree to it wholeheartedly - and with 2, 3 more FF incidents, they will.
  18. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    My ideas for new gun safety measures:

    1.) Expand concealed carry for teachers in schools. Also Require at least one person at each school be firearm certified with specific requirements for dealing with school shootings and include requirements for ongoing continuing education requirements.

    2.) Limit magazine capacity to 10 rounds. No honest man needs more than 10 rounds. Grandfather this in but require ceasefire Oregon to offer $50 buyback program for all magazines that exceed this limit. Allow for use of term "Clip" to also be used in place of magazine so people will quit bubbleguming about this on the internet.

    3.) Require all firearm transfers to go through NICS background check.

    P.S. - Please no personal attacks this close to the holidays as I'm a very sensitive and special person, thanks
  19. PMKN_PI

    PMKN_PI Milwaukie, Oregon, United States Active Member

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    You deserve no freedom, nor should you be immune to personal attacks. If you cant take the heat? (most weak people who sacrifice power to the government are) GET OUT OF THE GODDAMNED KITCHEN. 10 round mags will do no good against a constitutionally suspended government with weapons held by people whos only allegiance is to a sitting tyrant. I have a friend and well known magazine writer who lived in Long Beach during the Rodney King riots. The looting gang members were singling out whites and Koreans, and my friend looked Korean. Because he and his buddy he was hunkered down with had an AR15 and plenty of full mags and let it be known they had them, they were passed over. I guess you support innocents being robbed, beaten, and raped. Or you think the police will always come when the SHTF. Well, during the riots, for days they had the promise of NO help if they were attacked. You sir, dont get it. You sir, deserve to be over run by roaming rape squads. You sir, are weak.
  20. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    None of what I proposed would have hindered your chinese friend from defending himself against maurading colored people.

    The "roaming rape squad" comment was not very nice. Was that really the first thing that came to your mind when you were deciding how to blast me over the internet? Where are you guys getting this from?

    P.S.- If you and any of your sick buddies try to come to my house with your "squad" be prepared to see how weak I really am.