My new 1916 BSA SHT.LE

[tac]

Just needs Skennerton's Book of the Lee-Enfield downloading, is all.

tac

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

British military nomenclature - Short refers to the fact that it's physically SHORT, shorter than the previous Lee-Enfield rifle by about six inches. Magazine means that is has, uh, a magazine. And Lee-Enfield because it's a Lee-Enfield. British military ALWAYS have nicknames for their kit - SMLE easily turns into 'smellie'. 'Brown Bess' mean anything to you? So do US soldiers - the 155mm gun was called 'Long Tom', and the 240mm atomic cannon was called 'Atomic Annie'.........'Warthog', 'Huey', et al.

Now THIS is a genuine British military nomenclature, of an article that could be found in the British Military Psychiatric Hospital in India during the days of the Raj -

Bowl, gutta-percha, handles [without], officers for the use of.

It's a kind of rubbery porridge bowl made so that officers who have gone 'Doolali', - the location of the hospital - could not break it and self-harm.

I bet you ALL wanted to know that one, right?

tac, fullacrap

Yes i got that aboutt he SMLE, but this thread wasn't titled or named as such.

I actually *did* want to know about the term doolali! (even though i didn't know i did) I never knew it's origin, i just assumed the term meant nuts/crazy etc, used it as a kid, i had no idea it was so specific, and even a place name!

 

[tac]

Sorry about that. Guess I was actually answering a putative question about the term Sht etc.

I really must read stuff with more care.

tac

 

[Fjordforder]

Only related on a tangent but whatever, I started the thread and I`ll derail it if I want.

 

[tac]

Also, in WW1, the French began to call the British soldiery 'Haricot Verts' - pronounced 'Harry Covair'. This translates as 'green beans'... Also, keeping to the subject of food - 'Bifsteaks' - after the Tommies' favourite meal whilst on furlough in France.

tac

 

[tac]

Just realised that both my Canadian Sniders were also converted by BSA, using two and three band P53 Enfields. Do they count?

tac

 

[DunRanull]

I sho nuff likes me old Enfield- probably as much as my Mausers. Or close anyway. Ten rounds of good english cooking, 175 grains of empty-tipped bullets that do tumble...

 

[tac]

Do tell about the tumble thing. Y'see, I shoot a BSA 1918 III* out to 900 yards, and the holes are still round at that distance.

I'm sure I'd have noticed by now.

ta

 

[Fjordforder]

Holy Thread Revival, Batman!

 

[DunRanull]

Do tell about the tumble thing. Y'see, I shoot a BSA 1918 III* out to 900 yards, and the holes are still round at that distance.

I'm sure I'd have noticed by now.

ta

Well I can't speak to "900 yards" cuz I can't shoot or see at 900 yards. Unless your target is the broad side of a barn. Y'see, I DO know that fired into living breathing tissue at hunting ranges the .303 military does wobble around and tumble- whether its the heavy-base/light tip or some other reason I don't know. 8mm Mauser and LC 7.62 will do the same thing. Based on what "info" Ive seen etc etc, the "pencil-hole in, pencil-hole out" is a myth in these larger calibers. Can't speak to the 5.56/.223 or for that matter the 7.62 combloc. Some of these calibers are hollow under the tip and a quick touch with a file or grinder will open them up tho other than being legal there is no practical reason to do so. Been messin with these mil-surps for 51 years now. Just sayin. Y' see?

 

[Ura-Ki]

Ok, Question time ( not very knowledgeable on British Rifles) We have a Lee-Enfield SMLE, then along comes the Enfield of 1914/17 in good Ol'Merican .30/06 Springfield. Why? Why build another rifle in a non British Standard cal? and Why complicate the whole arms deal by supplying Enfields instead of the 1903 Springfield?

 

[Fjordforder]

My (limited) understanding was that the 1914/17 was less expensive and faster to manufacture than the SMLE, but even when sent to the combat zone the SMLE was the rifle of choice for most troops - my records indicate that most 1914s were used primarily as sniper`s rifles.

 

[Goosebrown]

Well I can't speak to "900 yards" cuz I can't shoot or see at 900 yards. Unless your target is the broad side of a barn. Y'see, I DO know that fired into living breathing tissue at hunting ranges the .303 military does wobble around and tumble-.... Just sayin. Y' see?

What you know just is not true. None of those calibers are in any way unstable on impact. Your barrels may be shot out but the calibers aren't your issue.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Ok, Question time ( not very knowledgeable on British Rifles) We have a Lee-Enfield SMLE, then along comes the Enfield of 1914/17 in good Ol'Merican .30/06 Springfield. Why? Why build another rifle in a non British Standard cal? and Why complicate the whole arms deal by supplying Enfields instead of the 1903 Springfield?

Long story shortened ...The model 1914 was built for England as they didn't have the means to do so at the time.
During WWI when we got involved , there wasn't enough Springfield 03's around at the time.
So the Enfield was re-chambered /re-tooled etc .. and made in .30-06 for US troops.

Or so I have read ... I wasn't in the Army at that time...
Andy

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

Here is the story:

As it entered World War I, the UK had an urgent need for rifles, and contracts for the new rifle were placed with arms companies in the United States. They decided to ask these companies to produce the new rifle design in the old .303 British chambering for convenience of ammunition logistics. The new rifle was termed the "Pattern 14". In the case of the P14 rifle, Winchester and Remington were selected. A third manufacturer, Eddystone Arsenal – a subsidiary of Remington – was tooled up at the Baldwin Locomotive Works in Eddystone, Pennsylvania. Thus, three variations of the P14 and M1917 exist, labeled "Winchester," "Remington" and "Eddystone".

World War I


M1917 Enfield breech
When the U.S. entered the war, it had a similar need for rifles. The Springfield Armory had delivered approximately 843,000 M1903 Springfield rifles, but due to the difficulties in production, rather than re-tool the Pattern 14 factories to produce the standard U.S. rifle, the M1903 Springfield, it was realized that it would be much quicker to adapt the British design for the U.S. .30-06 Springfield cartridge. The Enfield design was well-suited to the .30-06 Springfield; it was a big, strong action and was originally intended to employ a long, powerful, rimless bottlenecked cartridge. Accordingly, Remington Arms Co. altered the design for caliber .30-06 Springfield, under the close supervision of the U.S. Army Ordnance Department, which was formally adopted as the U.S. Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1917. In addition to Remington's production at Ilion, New York and Eddystone, Pennsylvania, Winchester produced the rifle at their New Haven, Connecticut plant, a combined total more than twice the 1903's production, and was the unofficial service rifle. Eddystone made 1,181,908 rifles – more than the production of Remington (545,541 rifles) and Winchester (465,980 rifles) combined.[2][3] The standardized production effort regarding parts interchangeability did not work out as intended. Winchester produced slightly differing parts, leading to interchangeability issues with the Remington and Eddystone produced rifles.

Design changes were few; the stripper clip feed, internal box magazine, bolt face, chamber and rifling dimensions were altered to suit the .30-06 Springfield cartridge and the US pattern 5-round stripper clips, the stock was slightly redesigned lightening it somewhat and the volley fire sights on the left side of the weapon were deleted. The markings were changed to reflect the model and caliber change. A 16.5-inch blade bayonet, the M1917 bayonet was produced for use on the rifle. It would later be used on several other small arms like the M97 and M12 trench shotguns and early M1 Garands.

The new rifle was used alongside the M1903 Springfield and quickly surpassed the Springfield design in numbers produced and units issued. By November 11, 1918 about 75% of the AEF in France were armed with M1917s.[4]

 

[Goosebrown]

Great thread. Thanks for all the info