My 1911 Dilema

[krawl]

thanks, Krawl. Makes sense now. No, they'd not be near as strong as being machined out of billet, nor forged. Cheap to produce, but not a good place to cut production costs. Now I know..... thanks.

Oh, and Will, thanks for weighing in.... I was wonderinng if I was the only one sitting on the Group D bench. Nice to have your company, even if only for a few minutes.

but now, we've both lost our Dummy Hats so we can get up off this bench and move along.

And they use MIM in your engine, better go replace parts there too

 

[wichaka]

MIM in of itself is not a bad thing, but if the process isn't done right the parts are junk.

One company in particular has had a problem with their MIM parts, while others have not. Obviously there's a vendor supplying faulty MIM parts.

 

[Gunner3456]

And they use MIM in your engine, better go replace parts there too

Not for things that have to be really strong, tough, and a bit flexible such as connecting rods and wrist pins they don't. They still forge those, or machine from forged billet or they'd break.

Point is, MIM will be more brittle than forged and machined, every time. It may be strong enough for the application and never have a problem, but it will never be as strong as a forging.

 

[orygun]

Not for things that have to be really strong, tough, and a bit flexible such as connecting rods and wrist pins they don't. They still forge those, or machine from forged billet or they'd break.

If I remember correctly, the Modular version of Ford engines (98 and newer, V6, V8 & V10) use a connecting rod made like this. The unit is made as one piece and the rod cap is "broken" off as part of the manufacturing process. Leaves a slightly rough, self aligning surface instead of a smooth machined surface where the cap can "slide" around on the rod.

It's a high tech process that if done correctly is very strong.

Crankshafts are not always forged steel. Many (most?) are cast out of nodular iron.

 

[krawl]

Think it was this thread, not what I had seen previous, but some Fusion "stuff". I have no opinion really, I actually like the work they put out visually.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=255470
(Links from this thread to a couple more)

 

[AndyH]

Keiths had at least one at rickreall a few weeks ago for around $1200

Man... I always forget about Keiths...
I am going to have to actually go there one of these days.

 

[Gunner3456]

If I remember correctly, the Modular version of Ford engines (98 and newer, V6, V8 & V10) use a connecting rod made like this. The unit is made as one piece and the rod cap is "broken" off as part of the manufacturing process. Leaves a slightly rough, self aligning surface instead of a smooth machined surface where the cap can "slide" around on the rod.

It's a high tech process that if done correctly is very strong.

Crankshafts are not always forged steel. Many (most?) are cast out of nodular iron.

You may be right, and I know that many connecting rods are now made from powdered metals (P/M) in exacting alloys in a process similar to MIM but I'm unaware of any that are not re-struck to control density - a process akin to forging and which increases the strength of the metal. MIM parts by definition are porous. Maybe I just haven't seen it.

There is no way that an unstruck MIM part is as strong as a forged or re-struck part or we wouldn't be talking about issues with MIM parts.

Have you toured the Kenetics, Inc. plant in Wilsonville? Well worth the time.

As for cranks which I didn't mention, they have been cast for decades, but still are forged in high performance applications. When building hot rod engines in the 70's we'd always look for a forged small block Chevy crank rather than a cast. I can still tell the difference at a glance by the wide, ground parting line in the forged version rather than the thin parting line in the cast ones.