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Muzzleloader Hunters in WA
- Thread Starter Squatch831
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Yes I do ...on both accounts.
I have hunted deer , elk , bear , and grouse with my muzzloaders.
My hunting and shooting is done with traditional and antique muzzleloaders.
A .54 Hawken Rifle Copy is my main shooting firearm.
Out of all the guns that I own , I shoot this the most and the best.
It was gotten me deer , bear , elk , antelope and grouse....
I have a antique flintlock fowler...it has accounted for grouse....
And my last main hunting gun is antique J.Henry Trade rifle...circa 1800...
When the game warden saw that this flintlock was the rifle that got my last elk...the look on his face was priceless.
Andy
My Hawken Rifle
Antique Flintlock Fowler
Antique J.Henry Trade Rifle
I have hunted deer , elk , bear , and grouse with my muzzloaders.
My hunting and shooting is done with traditional and antique muzzleloaders.
A .54 Hawken Rifle Copy is my main shooting firearm.
Out of all the guns that I own , I shoot this the most and the best.
It was gotten me deer , bear , elk , antelope and grouse....
I have a antique flintlock fowler...it has accounted for grouse....
And my last main hunting gun is antique J.Henry Trade rifle...circa 1800...
When the game warden saw that this flintlock was the rifle that got my last elk...the look on his face was priceless.
Andy
My Hawken Rifle
Antique Flintlock Fowler
Antique J.Henry Trade Rifle
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This is my main elk hunting rifle.
The early season is only one week.
Great timing for bugling, decent weather.
I like that i do not have to wear hunters orange, kind of trivial, but I care.
Knight LK-93 .54 cal.
I have never shot an elk, it's been a long term goal......
Last year I got my deer with it though!
Matt
The early season is only one week.
Great timing for bugling, decent weather.
I like that i do not have to wear hunters orange, kind of trivial, but I care.
Knight LK-93 .54 cal.
I have never shot an elk, it's been a long term goal......
Last year I got my deer with it though!
Matt
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Hunting at least for me....is something that needs to be respectfully.
Respect must be shown to what you are hunting , how you hunt and the world in which you hunt in.
By this I mean :
Know the habits and life of the animals that you hunt...
Take a moment after your kill to show some thanks for the animal and what gift you have earned.
Learn your firearm....know it well..Understand that it's not so much the firearm as it is the hunter using it...
Know and stick to your limitations with it.
Make you shots either a clean , quick kill or a clean miss...
Explore , understand and maintain the land where you hunt...
The land is there for your use...but its also there for your care..If you don't care for the land , then who will...?
To do the above while using the firearms of those before me....practicing the ancient craft and skills of hunting..is a way for me to connect the past with the present.
Hunting with a copy of an old rifle or using the actual antique firearm...
Starting my campfire with flint and steel....using a 100 odd year old knife to clean my game or as a kitchen knife...
Yet if it wasn't for my 2011 truck...I wouldn't be out there...Ibuprofen is my friend on those early mornings after sleeping on the ground...
Hunting is sharing connections...
With the ancient past to the present...
The fellowship of the campfire...
All while keeping in touch with the natural world.
Andy
Respect must be shown to what you are hunting , how you hunt and the world in which you hunt in.
By this I mean :
Know the habits and life of the animals that you hunt...
Take a moment after your kill to show some thanks for the animal and what gift you have earned.
Learn your firearm....know it well..Understand that it's not so much the firearm as it is the hunter using it...
Know and stick to your limitations with it.
Make you shots either a clean , quick kill or a clean miss...
Explore , understand and maintain the land where you hunt...
The land is there for your use...but its also there for your care..If you don't care for the land , then who will...?
To do the above while using the firearms of those before me....practicing the ancient craft and skills of hunting..is a way for me to connect the past with the present.
Hunting with a copy of an old rifle or using the actual antique firearm...
Starting my campfire with flint and steel....using a 100 odd year old knife to clean my game or as a kitchen knife...
Yet if it wasn't for my 2011 truck...I wouldn't be out there...Ibuprofen is my friend on those early mornings after sleeping on the ground...
Hunting is sharing connections...
With the ancient past to the present...
The fellowship of the campfire...
All while keeping in touch with the natural world.
Andy
Beautiful rifles and thoughts on hunting, thanks Andy!
The instructor last fall at my kids hunters safety course highly encouraged muzzle loaders for much the same reasons Andy and edslhead have mentioned. Emphasis on the expanded, less busy season.
Maybe a segue and hopefully not a thread derailment but I had a question about muzzle loader projectiles.
What are your thoughts about non-lead projectiles? The links below explain why I ask. Two reasons primarily, habitat health and the health of those (humans and scavengers) consuming the harvested game. I was surprised to see how much a lead projectile fragments throughout the impact pathway.
peregrinefund.org
huntingwithnonlead.org
Got to see this demo at Fort Clatsop, Lewis and Clark NP site in Oregon, a few years ago.
The instructor last fall at my kids hunters safety course highly encouraged muzzle loaders for much the same reasons Andy and edslhead have mentioned. Emphasis on the expanded, less busy season.
Maybe a segue and hopefully not a thread derailment but I had a question about muzzle loader projectiles.
What are your thoughts about non-lead projectiles? The links below explain why I ask. Two reasons primarily, habitat health and the health of those (humans and scavengers) consuming the harvested game. I was surprised to see how much a lead projectile fragments throughout the impact pathway.
North American Non-Lead Partnership | The Peregrine Fund
peregrinefund.org
Reasons to Use Non-lead
Got to see this demo at Fort Clatsop, Lewis and Clark NP site in Oregon, a few years ago.
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I think the concerns for lead in the environment can at times be overstated...
Also many of the studies have a anti-gun or anti-hunting bias.
Please note that I said can and many...not will be or all...
Also most of the round ball that I have recovered , has flattened , but not fragmented....
As well as being "pass thru" as in completely exiting the animal.
( Again mostly )
Two bigger concerns that I have are
Cost of the non lead projectiles and effectiveness.
Lets look at a my favorite , the .54 caliber lead round ball.
.530 diameter , weighing in at around 220-225 grains
Cost is around $17- $20 for 100 round balls in a box.
Cheaper if you mold yer own...but that is a different subject...
I know this load well and know that it works.
Non-toxic .54 round ball
.524 diameter , weighing in at around 190.1 grains...
Cost is $12 per 10 round balls.
Things to think about...
That lighter ball may make for the need for a different zero....as its much lighter....
Which means more practice...but at a much higher cost than lead round ball.
More expensive round ball , could lead to less practice....which will make for less effectiveness.
Now 190 grains is a shade over a .50 caliber lead round ball of .490 diameter and 178 ish grains...
That .50 caliber lead ball is effective for sure...but ...
In lead round ball and hunting...bigger is better at times.
Andy
Also many of the studies have a anti-gun or anti-hunting bias.
Please note that I said can and many...not will be or all...
Also most of the round ball that I have recovered , has flattened , but not fragmented....
As well as being "pass thru" as in completely exiting the animal.
( Again mostly )
Two bigger concerns that I have are
Cost of the non lead projectiles and effectiveness.
Lets look at a my favorite , the .54 caliber lead round ball.
.530 diameter , weighing in at around 220-225 grains
Cost is around $17- $20 for 100 round balls in a box.
Cheaper if you mold yer own...but that is a different subject...
I know this load well and know that it works.
Non-toxic .54 round ball
.524 diameter , weighing in at around 190.1 grains...
Cost is $12 per 10 round balls.
Things to think about...
That lighter ball may make for the need for a different zero....as its much lighter....
Which means more practice...but at a much higher cost than lead round ball.
More expensive round ball , could lead to less practice....which will make for less effectiveness.
Now 190 grains is a shade over a .50 caliber lead round ball of .490 diameter and 178 ish grains...
That .50 caliber lead ball is effective for sure...but ...
In lead round ball and hunting...bigger is better at times.
Andy
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There are big advantages to muzzle load hunting in WA. (and most othe states too) You get to hunt before the mondren totally stirs the deer up. Where we hunt there are plenty of permits available AND last year I think we saw one other hunter int he area. Makes it much easier to as you don't have lots of people puching the deer and they don't hang out on the non huntable land!
Second the comment on Lead. Way over stated as usual. Most lead is from bird hunting. It's those small BB's that are the problem.
Second the comment on Lead. Way over stated as usual. Most lead is from bird hunting. It's those small BB's that are the problem.
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I think the concerns for lead in the environment can at times be overstated...
Also many of the studies have a anti-gun or anti-hunting bias.
Please note that I said can and many...not will be or all...
Two bigger concerns that I have are
Cost of the non lead projectiles and effectiveness.
Lets look at a my favorite , the .54 caliber lead round ball.
.530 diameter , weighing in at around 220-225 grains
Cost is around $17- $20 for 100 round balls in a box.
Cheaper if you mold yer own...but that is a different subject...
I know this load well and know that it works.
Non-toxic .54 round ball
.524 diameter , weighing in at around 190.1 grains...
Cost is $12 per 10 round balls.
Things to think about...
That lighter ball may make for the need for a different zero....as its much lighter....
Which means more practice...but at a much higher cost than lead round ball.
More expensive round ball , could lead to less practice....which will make for less effectiveness.
Now 190 grains is a shade over a .50 caliber lead round ball of .490 diameter and 178 ish grains...
That .50 caliber lead ball is effective for sure...but ...
In lead round ball and hunting...bigger is better at times.
Andy
Isn't lead a naturally occurring substance? It's not like we are slinging alien stuff everywhere.
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Yep it sure is...
One of my thoughts on why the lead concern is over stated at times...
Also ...
Most of my roundball has flattened , not fragmented...as well most "being a pass thru" and completely exiting the animal.
So I kinda doubt that much lead is consumed by scavengers in the offal....Nor have I ever found a hunk of lead on my dinner plate...( From a lead round ball fired from a muzzleloader...)
At least in my experience.
Andy
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I have never had a Round ball or Conical fragment on me, even punching heavy shoulder bones, usually the round ball flattens and the conical expands the frontal area about 1/2 again diameter! I focus mostly in the .44 .45, and .50 cal rifles, velocities are generally a little bit higher then the .54 ( not by a bunch) and I would expect to see more failures, but don't!
I usually hunt the early Dear season, and the Late winter Elk season mainly, with the Elk season usually getting an extension into the first of the year, but not always! I find the hunts are more work, but the results are generally better, Plus, it's muzzle loading, so there are almost no other hunters out and about!
For the .44 cal, its a restored Colt MK-4 Revolving rifle circa 1863, in the .50 cal. it's a Colt Resto-mod MK-4 Revolving Rifle, both using a combo of Colt Molds or custom molds to make hollow base conicals! I don't currently have a .45 cal front stuffer, but I have plans for one, found a nice project .62 Colt that needs a complete rebuild, and should make for a fine hunting rifle!
I usually hunt the early Dear season, and the Late winter Elk season mainly, with the Elk season usually getting an extension into the first of the year, but not always! I find the hunts are more work, but the results are generally better, Plus, it's muzzle loading, so there are almost no other hunters out and about!
For the .44 cal, its a restored Colt MK-4 Revolving rifle circa 1863, in the .50 cal. it's a Colt Resto-mod MK-4 Revolving Rifle, both using a combo of Colt Molds or custom molds to make hollow base conicals! I don't currently have a .45 cal front stuffer, but I have plans for one, found a nice project .62 Colt that needs a complete rebuild, and should make for a fine hunting rifle!
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Beautiful rifles and thoughts on hunting, thanks Andy!
The instructor last fall at my kids hunters safety course highly encouraged muzzle loaders for much the same reasons Andy and edslhead have mentioned. Emphasis on the expanded, less busy season.
Maybe a segue and hopefully not a thread derailment but I had a question about muzzle loader projectiles.
What are your thoughts about non-lead projectiles? The links below explain why I ask. Two reasons primarily, habitat health and the health of those (humans and scavengers) consuming the harvested game. I was surprised to see how much a lead projectile fragments throughout the impact pathway.
North American Non-Lead Partnership | The Peregrine Fund
Reasons to Use Non-lead
Got to see this demo at Fort Clatsop, Lewis and Clark NP site in Oregon, a few years ago.
View attachment 688358
Actual lead shedding data (water jug and ballistic gel) done at OSU using .54 round ball and conicals as well as 45-70 compared to 30-06. It's several pages long, but in a nutshell the .54 RB retains 99.7% of the starting weight and what shed lead fragments there are do not disperse very far due to lower rotational velocity.
And don't ask me why the link came up with error setting user cookie. The link still takes you to the study.
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Lead is a naturally occurring substance as are mercury and arsenic. Still not a good idea to spread any of them on your breakfast cereal.
Sure, I can see how some groups would use any excuse to bash hunters.
If they can measure toxic levels of lead in blood samples from scavengers, it's coming from somewhere. The thinking I've seen presented is the lead is being ingested from gut piles. If it's environmental then it should be measurable in the game as well. Good question. I'll see if I can get an answer.
Ignoring the 'possible' environmental concerns. I don't like the idea/possibility of feeding my family lead frags in our dinner. Shot placement could play a role here for sure. Though I do remember many a meal as a kid, of duck, pheasant and chukar, spitting pellets out back on to the plate. A nice heavy, oddly satisfying single "tink' as they hit the plate, without a bounce. Maybe I've just found an excuse for my, lets say, less than stellar, high school gpa.
Good to hear about the round ball flattening and pass thru. Thanks to Ura-Ki and Roundball58 for the additional related info.
Getting excited to, find a couple rifles and get ready for, the kids and I to do some muzzle loader hunting this fall!
If they can measure toxic levels of lead in blood samples from scavengers, it's coming from somewhere. The thinking I've seen presented is the lead is being ingested from gut piles. If it's environmental then it should be measurable in the game as well. Good question. I'll see if I can get an answer.
Ignoring the 'possible' environmental concerns. I don't like the idea/possibility of feeding my family lead frags in our dinner. Shot placement could play a role here for sure. Though I do remember many a meal as a kid, of duck, pheasant and chukar, spitting pellets out back on to the plate. A nice heavy, oddly satisfying single "tink' as they hit the plate, without a bounce. Maybe I've just found an excuse for my, lets say, less than stellar, high school gpa.
Good to hear about the round ball flattening and pass thru. Thanks to Ura-Ki and Roundball58 for the additional related info.
Getting excited to, find a couple rifles and get ready for, the kids and I to do some muzzle loader hunting this fall!
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My point is that the presence of lead on Earth isn't due to humans. These groups make it sound like we brought it here from some other planet.
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Naturally occurring lead is usually found like other minerals and metals in pockets and veins, and sometimes those get exposed on the surface near a food source that animals consume, so you will find some animals with higher percentages of lead then others, often with zero exposure to hunting! Much the same with aquatic life, and the same results can be expected! I would be more concerned with all the ship wrecks on the ocean bottoms then lead! Still, it makes for a low hanging fruit that the anti hunting/anti gun crowd can use, with no empirical proof that poisoning from hunting occurs! Much of this came about when the California Condor was on the brink, they did a bunch of studies and determined that there was lead poisoning, but couldn't identify where it came from, and they assumed it was from consuming lead shot animal remains, but no evidence or proof was ever published or questioned, so we were force fed that line to support the anti agenda, nothing more!
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I partake in the front stuffer seasons now and again and enjoy the challenges associated with using a less modern weapon. Of course Andy would laugh and call my current m/l quite modern as it is an inline knight. I have hunted and harvested game with a TC wheel lock in the past. I also have quite successfully hunted waterfowl with the same TC wheel lock with a shotgun barrel I have for it. It took some experimentation to meet the non-toxic shot rules but nothing too crazy.Today I actually went through and checked out and lubed my two muzzleloaders as I plan on hunting with them this fall after a couple year hiatus. Try it out you may like it!
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LEAD & more BS
Costco quit carrying my favorite brand of Australian licorice because...Primary ingredient is molasses....Molasses is made from Sorghum. Among the trace elements Sorghum removes from the soil is LEAD and that amount of lead exceeds California standards. Bubblegum!!!!
Costco quit carrying my favorite brand of Australian licorice because...Primary ingredient is molasses....Molasses is made from Sorghum. Among the trace elements Sorghum removes from the soil is LEAD and that amount of lead exceeds California standards.
Bubblegum!!!!
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Guess I didn't answer the original question. Yes, they can be fun to hunt with.
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