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Other State Multiple Victims In Shooting At Saugus High School In Santa Clarita: Police

I’m flabberghasted that MSN has actually taken the stance that they have in this article, finally someone gets it...

Like these passages from the article:

For one, the shooter was only 16. That means it was illegal for him to purchase or own a firearm. The idea that more laws would have prevented a crazed actor from doing something, even though they already clearly evaded and trampled on the law, is simply nonsensical.

Let’s be clear: Liberals are telling you that more gun laws — which don’t actually apply to the specifics of this case at all — would have stopped a shooting in the state that already has one of the strictest gun control regimens. Right. They’ll have to do better than that if they want to make the case against our Second Amendment rights.
 
IBTL
Nurturing as in caring for the students personal growth, Mixed signals an in the educators “teachers” are going to want all students to pass and at times would be a first defense in de-escalation of violence and examples of discipline
I fail to see how the 2nd is a mixed signal. I do see that your interpretation of roles is fairly rigid.
Teachers have a difficult job and I wouldn't think they could actually kill a student in self defense,. Would (or if ) you had a child in grade level education want them to think if they fail a class they may actually get shot?
Do you know any teachers? Your rhetorical question is nonsensical. Your comment on college professors would indicate you never matriculated, or did not do well in a specific class and hold a resentful opinion.
maybe you meant that because he was specially trained to deal with student shootings and that he was insured? adequate training? perhaps? Specialized ?? probably not.
then what did you mean, specialized military personnel?
Sheriff personnel are trained. How well is another issue. Then I ask, how many are needed? Consider the size of a school of 2,500 students. Placebo vs. efficacy.
Sayonara.
 
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AndyinEverson

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Please when referencing posts please read them in their entirety and please refrain from misquotes because your reply is “simply” out of context.
My reply is not out of context as I was stating my thoughts as both a teacher and someone having combat experience....
Which in turn relates to your comments of arming teachers

As for misquoting did you not say :
The idea for arming teachers is a simplistic solution but from a social and legal aspect there are inherent flaws. You can’t have a teacher trained to make a life or death decision while at the same time focusing on their nurturing example to the students.
It would be to confusing and send mixed signals to the students.
Again my post was explaining my thoughts on armed school staff and how that might affect both staff and students...
In my life experience of both being a teacher and a combat veteran , arming teachers is not a simplistic solution , but as I said earlier it is a simplistic answer...
Which raises some questions or issues in my mind...and does not "solve' the existing problem...therefore it is not a solution...or at least a complete one.
My post also went into a little of my teaching style...which can be nurturing , firm , fun or any other method that works for the student in question...

So I do not see how I misquoted you or was out of context....We simply disagree.....all I can say to that is :
Well so what...? Folks disagree every day...
Andy
 

Mikej

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Being prepared isn't necessarily a bad thing. Every airline flight starts with the same spiel, we've heard it hundreds of times. As unlikely as it is to happen, jets do fall out of the sky from time to time for a variety of reasons, knowing what to do, and what not to do, may save a life.

"MAY be a ghost gun" ? :rolleyes: DID dad have six guns? Or where six guns taken from him due to his mental condition?

"Investigators say at least six guns were recovered from the shooter’s home and may have belonged to his late father. "

"During that time, the father had been detained for a mental health evaluation, which prompted the removal of firearms from his home."

Another hack media source. Just the reason I seldom read news from any of them.
 

Mikej

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School shootings are a sore subject for most.
I'd say for everyone. We should cancel the second amendment and get rid of all the guns. :rolleyes:

Under no circumstances should we do anything to make the schools safer with people there to protect the kids. :rolleyes:
 

AndyinEverson

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It’s ironic you still don’t actually don’t see the misquote.. school shootings are an emotionally charged subject , I couldn’t agree with you more, too bad you still don’t see it.
If so...then why did you say that I misquoted you and was out of context ....not to forget to mention that I needed to read the post in its entirety before replying....?

Maybe point out exactly where I am misquoting you and the irony that I am supposed to have missed....
Andy
 

Red98422

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So if I’m getting this correct @Budd_Vee your solution is to have someone who would be prohibitively well trained (as in either expensive or non existent) and along those same lines you don’t feel that a standard CCW holders training/mental judgement is enough.

I could definitely agree with an argument for a specific style of and amount of training required for this who wish to carry at school. As at the end of the day we could all use more training.

However I feel your first suggestion and the presumptions that went with it are way off base, and wholly unrealistic.

At the end of the day IMO it doesn’t matter how the children “feel” it’s about keeping them safe and educating them.
 

User 1234

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We allow pilots to carry handguns in the cockpit 35,000 feet in the air with a captive audience of 300 people of all ages, but won’t allow trained and vetted teachers to have any guns?

Kids are around concealed weapons all day at restaurants and malls all year long, and they don’t realize it or freak out, so what is the difference?
 

AndyinEverson

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I sincerely apologize and I really should have pointed it out immediately

“but from a social and legal aspect there are inherent flaws”

You ever hear the saying “you can pick your friends and you can pick your nose”?
Swell...
I still stand by my statement that arming teachers is a simplistic statement and not a simplistic solution.
( For the reasons given in my first post here...)

Since I still do not understand why you quoted me in the first place...for misquoting you and for being in your words , "simply" out of context...As well as being admonished to read the post in its entirety....I will not respond further here with you....
Andy
 

bbbass

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It is my opinion that as an example there is a constant flow of contraband into our country in the form of illicit drugs, narcotics, and phony merchandise knock offs not to mention the estimated 1.2 million undocumented immigrants, so what makes the liberals think if they take away our second amendment rights that it would actually be enforceable ? The house needs to identify the threats to our public safety and justify why they can’t protect us adequately.
IMO the threats are obvious and well known, you even stated some in your post. And there is no need for the House of Representative to justify anything... even a fool knows on some level that he has to protect himself!!
 

bbbass

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Sorry...All it did for me was foster rebellion. I went over the fence and never looked back.
Gotta break some knuckles to make an omelet!! Some people knuckle under and some don't.

Reminds me of when I taught Country/Western dance classes.... the lessons were too slow and too repetitive for some, they got frustrated and distracted. Others needed to be spoon fed and no amount of repetition would ever be enough, they just weren't going to "get it" w/o private lessons. So I taught to what I guessed to be an 80% level, cuz there was no way everybody was going to be happy.

But yes, I rebelled in Catholic School also. I was one of the ones that teaching could not happen fast enough or deep enough to please me... a high IQ is such a burden, so I got bored, and disruptive... and ultimately kicked out. Yet even tho I wasn't paying attention at times and was a discipline problem that got my knuckles smacked, I learned enough to be 2yrs ahead of those public school dummies!
 

AndyinEverson

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If I may meander a bit more...

There are many ways and methods to teaching and getting a lesson across...it pays in the end to be able to use many different means of doing so.

Also as a teacher I do try to both teach and nurture my students...which means that I:
Hold them accountable for their actions...
Show them that every action or lack thereof will have a consequence...
Explain and practice the ways and means of getting along with others...
Have them grasp the concept that life ain't fair...And that fair does not always mean equal...
Challenge them to push themselves out of their "comfort zones"...
Have them value sportsmanship...that in real life if you don't win , you won't get a prize....which ain't bad , it just means that you need to work , practice and play harder....
Show them respect , kindness and value...all while expecting the same from them...

Unfortunately what I teach and show by my example...is limited to 7 hours a day , 5 days a week....
And , to be honest , can not complete with much of what is exposed to my students through the media...
As well as being often at odds with what is taught in their home life.

Between this and folks who make the rules , requirements , "standards" and such to govern my job , yet do not set foot in my classrooms or even know or understand my kids ....
It is no wonder that we are seeing what we are experiencing with the education system and just how our kids are turning out.

Granted the above is just a small part of what plagues us....I still go to school each day and hope to be a positive part of a child's life , if only briefly.
Andy
 
The idea for arming teachers is a simplistic solution but from a social and legal aspect there are inherent flaws. You can’t have a teacher trained to make a life or death decision while at the same time focusing on their nurturing example to the students.
It would be to confusing and send mixed signals to the students.
In as a similar example there can not be a visible armed guard on foot patrol since this gives a similar mixed signal that as an institution that schools are prisons.
If carried concealed, how would the students ever know? Using my spouse as an example, she's licensed, trained, and proficient with a handgun. She conceal carries all the time to protect herself and our children. If the nightmare of a school shooting went down, she barricades her and her students in the classroom per requirements, but the perp is trying to get in, there are two possibilities:

  1. Totally disarmed and defenseless. Once the bad guy gets in she and all of her young charges are at his mercy.
  2. Armed with a concealed handgun, and, as the absolute last resort, prepared to use lethal force to defend the lives of the innocent.
If it was your spouse or one of your kids in the classroom, which one would you choose? I know which one I would choose; since I asked her, ditto the wife.

We allow pilots to carry handguns in the cockpit 35,000 feet in the air with a captive audience of 300 people of all ages, but won’t allow trained and vetted teachers to have any guns?

Kids are around concealed weapons all day at restaurants and malls all year long, and they don’t realize it or freak out, so what is the difference?
Bingo. As I write this, the wife is in the city buying supplies. Concealed under her clothing is a holstered automatic. That apparently is fine at Wally World, but the second she steps into the classroom, it isn't? :s0076:
 
In the history of, oh, I don’t know, FOREVER, has a gunman ever left a scene because they realized they were in a gun free zone?
Exactly. The idea of a "gun free zone" stopping a determined perp has got to be the most intensely idiotic notions in contemporary society. And, yet, policy makers not only retain the idea, but sometimes double down like the administrator morons that run UCC did.
 

CRBMoA

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Why do we need more educators in thIs thread?

The most respected member of this board with experience in both education and armed conflict has weighed in and been dismissed.

I would suggest that looking for an answer one likes and looking for an answer that is effective may be different things depending on one’s perspective.
 

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