Other State Multiple Victims In Shooting At Saugus High School In Santa Clarita: Police

[Member 52301]

One of the main problems is that society, social engineering, propaganda, some parents, some mentors, some school teachers, the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY FROM FILMS TO THE BOOB TUBE TO LYRICS/MUSIC, etc. TEACH and TELL young people from the time that they are born, school age, teens and young adults that there is NO such thing as RIGHT and WRONG or personal responsibility.

They teach children that it is all grey/gray (Relative - ugh.) and NOT clear cut - black and white or red and blue when it comes to Right and Wrong in a SANE SOCIETY and in MORAL CODE OF LIVING especially when it comes to hurting or murdering another human being.

They don't teach the GOLDEN RULE which comes out of the Bible and is in many other religious books/teachings plus in non religious teachings.

Too many people don't really talk about RIGHT and WRONG and codes of living in a sane and moral society.

They don't talk about things like SIN, accountability, personal responsibility in ALL areas of your life, not letting some donkeys ruin your life with their words and actions while you stand up for what is GOOD in society while you do the RIGHT THING in life.

I would add much more but most of you see where this is heading and what I mean. Some of you may agree with me and some of you may not. NO problem.

I do BELIEVE that I am right when it comes to raising children to understand that there is such a thing as RIGHT AND WRONG and doing the honest and right thing so that you turn into a sane, responsible, honest, smart, kind and RESPECTFUL adult.

These types of children, teens and adults do NOT bully other people at any age and they do NOT decide to HURT and MURDER other people willy nilly or PLAN one or more murders just for the H of it!

Throw in Big Pharma's MESS when it comes to psycho babble drugs which I will not go into here because I am too tired to type.

And as I said in another post above and in other threads here or elsewhere, MANY young people have a parent DIE, family members and mentors die, parents who divorce, grow up poor or middle class or rich, go through many things in life and they DO NOT HURT or MURDER OTHER PEOPLE due to those sad and tough circumstances.

They DEAL with it!

And they did not need legal Rx psycho babble DRUGS or dope or booze to DEAL with those issues or enter into a life of crime worse off commit a MASS MURDER!!!

Cate

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Meandering post...I apologize in advance...

Regarding nurturing vs. teaching...
Students , just like everyone else...can vary in temperament...A method or way of approach that works with one student , may well end in disaster with another.
To be a effective teacher, one needs to know their students and be able to quickly "read" a person or situation.

I can use a kind voice and calm reasoned approach or give a figurative "kick in the azz" , or anything in between with students all in the same classroom...in the same day and sometimes even within minutes with the same student.
Again you gotta know your students and be able to accurately "read" people and situations.
As our school's Behavior Specialist , I have a "hard core" group of 30 ( give or take a few ) students that I work with everyday...but am on call for all of our 400 odd students....that makes for a lot of reading....

As for arming teachers / school staff...
I went back and forth with this idea for a long time...first against the idea , now I am for it.
Someone posted earlier that arming teachers was a "simplistic solution"...I would argue that it is more of simplistic statement , than a simplistic solution.

My reasoning for this is :
If I am to carry at school , that means that there is the possibility of me having to use or shoot my firearm.
If I am to shoot , chances are that :
I know the student ...
The school shooter is a past student...
The school shooter is known to the students...
That I am going to have to shoot someone that I know , taught and maybe even in front of other students.
None of the above is simplistic in its solution.

Having been in combat and actually having shot others , even killed others , I know how this can affect the people involved.
Adults , even when well trained , and knowing what they signed up for , can have issues with this...
What about kids who have no real ideal of life and death...?

Speaking for myself here....
A lifetime of therapy for a survivor , sure beats death.
I know what I am able and willing to do....If school staff is to be armed....It should be their choice and the armed staff , should go into this , with eyes open along with the knowledge , skill and willingness to do what is necessary to ensure the safety of the students in their care.
Andy

 

[nwslopoke]

The irony of this is at 7:58 am you'll see parents driving reckless just to get their child to school on time, and if law enforcement try's to call them on this they'll plead harassment and say they should be chasing down real criminals.

The idea for arming teachers is a simplistic solution but from a social and legal aspect there are inherent flaws. You can't have a teacher trained to make a life or death decision while at the same time focusing on their nurturing example to the students.
It would be to confusing and send mixed signals to the students.
In as a similar example there can not be a visible armed guard on foot patrol since this gives a similar mixed signal that as an institution that schools are prisons.

A third and neutral individual would be a better solution in that licensing could be exclusive to the employment and classification of an already separate established credential of a "teachers aid" but extensive vetting with background checks tri-annual substance testing insurance and bonding of each with requirements in physical and psychological training. It sound like a lot but it's not really considering most teachers or even school bus drivers (do not) go through this.
They should be plain closed and blend in with the rest of the teaching staff much like an Air Marshal on a passenger plane. One teachers aid for every 100 to 200 students.
And of course they should possess the appropriate teaching credentials to actually assist the teachers faculty in their duties.

Unless you mean in outer city schools because what you said does or did not apply to inner city schools. We had them plus black & white police cars, helicopters flying around, low. I actually appreciated them at the time.

On one hand we can say our kids are living in fear of guns plus the sight of authority on campus , and do nothing to counter that fear. Then in the other hand say, our kids are getting killed. Do something. Police respond after being notified. Adults already on campus is the best deterrent.

The theory that college educated adults certified by the state and in some cases already possessing LE or military skills can't handle a firearm they may already have in order to defend their own life, let alone other students, is not a sound theory to me.

 

[Mikej]

Meandering post...I apologize in advance...

Regarding nurturing vs. teaching...
Students , just like everyone else...can vary in temperament...A method or way of approach that works with one student , may well end in disaster with another.
To be a effective teacher, one needs to know their students and be able to quickly "read" a person or situation.

I can use a kind voice and calm reasoned approach or give a figurative "kick in the azz" , or anything in between with students all in the same classroom...in the same day and sometimes even within minutes with the same student.
Again you gotta know your students and be able to accurately "read" people and situations.
As our school's Behavior Specialist , I have a "hard core" group of 30 students that I work with everyday...but am on call for all of our 400 odd students....that makes for a lot of reading....

As for arming teachers / school staff...
I went back and forth with this idea for a long time...first against the idea , now I am for it.
Someone posted earlier that arming teachers was a "simplistic solution"...I would argue that it is more of simplistic statement , than a simplistic solution.

My reasoning for this is :
If I am to carry at school , that means that there is the possibility of me having to use or shoot my firearm.
If I am to shoot , chances are that :
I know the student ...
The school shooter is a past student...
The school shooter is known to the students...
That I am going to have to shoot someone that I know , taught and maybe even in front of other students.
None of the above is simplistic in its solution.

Having been in combat and actually having shot others , even killed others , I know how this can affect the people involved.
Adults , even when well trained , and knowing what they signed up for , can have issues with this...
What about kids who have no real ideal of life and death...?

Speaking for myself here....
A lifetime of therapy for a survivor , sure beats death.
I know what I am able and willing to do....If school staff is to be armed....It should be their choice and the armed staff , should go into this , with eyes open along with the knowledge , skill and willingness to do what is necessary to ensure the safety of the students in their care.
Andy

You really know how to give perspective to a topic Andy. I just bet you are a great teacher.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

You really know how to give perspective to a topic Andy. I just bet you are a great teacher.

Thank you Mike... I do try my best , to teach and "reach" my students.
Now if only I could get a pay raise....
Andy

 

[bbbass]

As much as it grates on me to suggest we need to view schools as secure areas, like airports, I don't know where else to go. Sure, kids don't want to feel as if they are going into a war zone every school day, on the other hand, there's a lot to be said for coming home safe and sound at the end of the shift.

Many kids already feel as if they are going into a war zone every school day, and in many ways they are... at the very least they are entering a "victim zone" because not much is being done to defend those places. Antis think that banning firearms is the answer, yet logic instantly shows that our society will never rid itself of all firearms. Logic then would dictate other measures be taken, instead we do nothing. <sigh>

 

[Mikej]

Many kids already feel as if they are going into a war zone every school day, and in many ways they are... at the very least they are entering a "victim zone" because not much is being done to defend those places. Antis think that banning firearms is the answer, yet logic instantly shows that our society will never rid itself of all firearms. Logic then would dictate other measures be taken, instead we do nothing. <sigh>

The media/politicians have a BIG part in making students feel unsafe at school. How many schools in the U.S? I bet in a years time more kids get hit and killed by cars on "School Days" than shot at school . Should kids just stay in the house until they are 18? There are a lot of dangers in the world to get a person. Yet school students are afraid of going to school for fear of being shot up?

 

[bbbass]

The media/politicians have a BIG part in making students feel unsafe at school. How many schools in the U.S? I bet in a years time more kids get hit and killed by cars on "School Days" than shot at school . Should kids just stay in the house until they are 18? There are a lot of dangers in the world to get a person. Yet school students are afraid of going to school for fear of being shot up?

That is so true! News stories and school "active shooter" drills have kids scared of their shadows. It's a shame.

 

[HA556]

He was a great teacher, but I'm sure he had a plan to kill everyone in the room at all times.

Love this! Simply because it makes sense to me.

 

[bikemutt]

Being prepared isn't necessarily a bad thing. Every airline flight starts with the same spiel, we've heard it hundreds of times. As unlikely as it is to happen, jets do fall out of the sky from time to time for a variety of reasons, knowing what to do, and what not to do, may save a life.

 

[bbbass]

Being prepared isn't necessarily a bad thing. Every airline flight starts with the same spiel, we've heard it hundreds of times. As unlikely as it is to happen, jets do fall out of the sky from time to time for a variety of reasons, knowing what to do, and what not to do, may save a life.

I'm ok with drills done carefully. What I'm not ok with is staff creating an unnecessary atmosphere of dread, fear, and panic.

 

[bikemutt]

I'm ok with drills done carefully. What I'm not ok with is staff creating an unnecessary atmosphere of dread, fear, and panic.

Agreed 100%. Sort of like signs at the gate; "this plane could crash, good luck, by the way, see our life insurance sales desk to your left", heck, no one would ever board!

 

[bbbass]

Agreed 100%. Sort of like signs at the gate; "this plane could crash, good luck, by the way, see our life insurance sales desk to your left", heck, no one would ever board!

My wife won't fly anymore... hasn't for years, let her fear get the best of her. Because of that, I missed my oldest Grandson's wedding this year. She wanted me to go ahead and go, but she has early dementia and needs someone to be around. But the point is that people operating on fear, or creating fear, hits me as a wrong. We can train kids w/o making all but a few fearful. All we have to do is look to how martial arts are taught... not for fear, but for strength!!!

 

[nwslopoke]

The media/politicians have a BIG part in making students feel unsafe at school. How many schools in the U.S? I bet in a years time more kids get hit and killed by cars on "School Days" than shot at school . Should kids just stay in the house until they are 18? There are a lot of dangers in the world to get a person. Yet school students are afraid of going to school for fear of being shot up?

More school age kids die or get killed in multiple categories before you get to school shootings. Many of those Categories are regulated...by the government. It's not surprising they want to misdirect school bus accidents, drownings, rape, sports injuries, ect.

 

[bikemutt]

I think we can all agree that injuries and death from accidental causes and high risk activities are a part of the risk we all assume just for being alive. Simply going to work, or school, and being murdered is an entirely different thing.

 

[P7M13]

The idea for arming teachers is a simplistic solution but from a social and legal aspect there are inherent flaws. You can't have a teacher trained to make a life or death decision while at the same time focusing on their nurturing example to the students.

"Drinketh thy kool aid, young Hal" saith Falstaff.

It would be to confusing and send mixed signals to the students.

I think the opposite. My best teachers taught self sufficiency: thinking, planning and acting. All of the ones who weren't Jesuits were veterans. The school was in a difficult area, and we were taught that self awareness was key.

In as a similar example there can not be a visible armed guard on foot patrol since this gives a similar mixed signal that as an institution that schools are prisons.
.....
A third and neutral individual would be a better solution

That worked well at Marjorie Stoneman Douglass High School.

 

[Jcon268]

Just found out one of my coworkers' niece lives in Santa Clarita and runs a taekwondo studio there and was very close with the boy who was shot and killed. He even showed me a picture she sent him of her with the boy. Really sad.

 

[Slobray]

Here we go................

Investigators probe whether teen killer used ‘ghost gun’ in California school shooting

Authorities investigating the deadly shooting at a southern California high school this week say the weapon used in the tragedy may be a “ghost gun,” NBC News reports. Two students died and three others were injured as a result of the attack on Thursday morning at Saugus High School in Santa...

www.crimeonline.com

Get ready for the attack on 80%.



Ray

 

[coyote223]

I prefer dangerous freedom to peaceful democratic socialism,,,

 

[jim97701]

Thought this was a good article.

The Santa Clarita shooting doesn’t support liberal's gun control agenda