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Much dissed shooting method - better than using a laser?

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by 5shot, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. 5shot

    5shot Mill Creek, WA New Member

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    An article: Looking at Lasers: Myth and Reality, which was written by Todd Green, is now featured on David Armstrong's thinking gunfighter blog. The article is very informative and contains pics that help to explaining both the pluses and minuses of using a laser.

    Here's a link to the article. http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com
    Look down quite a ways on the blog for it.

    When thinking about the pluses and minuses of using a laser, the much dissed brand of Point Shooting that I favor and call P&S, came to mind. (With P&S, the index finger is used much like a laser to aim a gun.) The result of my mental discussion, was a brief article that asks and answers the question: Is P&S superior to using a laser?

    Here's a link to it: http://www.pointshooting.com/1alaser.htm

    ..........

    For those interested in Point Shooting, here is a link to a U-Tube how-to Point Shoot video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=511eT8Iwvd0

    If you are satisfied with your ability to Point Shoot, the information may not be for you, but it might help others in getting comfortable with Point Shooting.

    Thanks for allowing this to be posted.
     
  2. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    Interesting. I don't know if I'll want my index finger so close to the slide though.

    I'll have to give it a whirl next time I go out.
     
  3. huntpotter

    huntpotter SW WA Negotiator Bronze Supporter

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    Hmm, Interesting method.
     
  4. absoluterik07

    absoluterik07 Salem, OR Member

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    That is very interesting I too will try that next time I go shooting.
     
  5. Schwabdl

    Schwabdl Hillsboro Active Member

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  6. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I posted in an earlier thread how I was practicing point shooting. I'm a big believer. I bought two Daisy CO2 powered BB pistols to start and just walked in our woods shooting at anything and everything. The nice thing about BB's is that you can see where you hit, and keep shooting as you zero in, even if it's just a leaf on the ground. With two guns you can alternate strong and weak hand.

    Next I graduated to Ruger Standard 22lr pistols and burned thousands of rounds. Now I'm using the Glocks.

    I can now hit a paper plate at 30 yards 80% of the time, about one shot per second. (I learned that I do best if I slow down to that speed.) That won't win any bulls-eye shooting contests, but it's **** on wheels for self defense.
     
  7. wakejoe

    wakejoe Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    Better to just learn to read your sights faster.
     
  8. Schwabdl

    Schwabdl Hillsboro Active Member

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    agreed if you can only hit 80 percent in practice thats a scary proposition for self defense scenario remember your responsible for were your projectile ends up
     
  9. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to see the average guy hit a paper plate 80% of the time at 90 feet in fairly rapid fire - a shot per second using his sights. I don't think he can even recover from recoil and acquire his sights that fast, let alone actually fire and hit his target repeatedly.

    I'm not saying there aren't people who can do it, I've just never met one.

    Imagine a paper plate over your chest, and then imagine it getting hit with a .40 almost once per second, somewhere on that plate, from 90 feet.
     
  10. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    If I had any enemies, I would hope they all use this method.

    jj
     
  11. Sawz

    Sawz Aurora OR. Member

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    I have practiced the P & S method and have found it to be another useful method. Not perfect in all situations but surprisingly accurate. From birth we all have been pointing at objects and it is very natural and instinctive. I don't notice any problems except one. The military had some documentation on this and it has been around for some time. The military concluded that it was easy to have a malfunction on a 1911 with this method because your index finger rests on a pin on the frame that could disable the pistol under fire. Other than that it is blazing fast, fairly accurate with practice, and easy to learn too. I haven't been bitten yet with my Glock. I see some benefits to this method and practice it along with other methods.
     
  12. toolfan

    toolfan North Portland Member

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    Not sure about pulling the trigger with the middle finger,
    but I listened to this 1 hour podcast yesterday:

    http://proarmspodcast.com/2010/05/23/052-interview-with-bob-stasch-of-the-chicago-police-department/

    Interview with a cop who has been in 14 gun fights, he endorses point shooting of some form or another. Also endorses shooting one handed, because in almost all of the shots he's fired in the thick of it, his off hand has been busy with one thing or another and unable to support his shooting hand.
     
  13. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    If I have any enemies, I hope they don't. :) Take the time to listen to the podcast linked above. There is a world of difference between range or even hunting shooting, and close range combat where living means being faster, and where your off hand may not be available because it's busy with so many other possible things.
     
  14. ikari2_2000

    ikari2_2000 Seattle, WA Member

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  15. robbalot

    robbalot Vancouver, Washington, United States Member

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    I enjoyed the laser pro/con article. Good stuff anyone can understand.

    I like the fundamental idea of P&S, but there's no way I'm ever gonna train using my middle finger as my primary trigger finger. I have practiced with middle finger of both hands just so I know I can do it. My primary defense pistols are 1911s anyway.

    Combat Focus Shooting teaches an excellent form of point shooting based on balancing speed and precision, and at the end of an 8 hour course I was firing multiple shots from the draw while in motion with 'combat accurate' hits.
     
  16. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to relearn something, and often it even gets scoffed at.

    Consider counter-steering a motorcycle. The ONLY way to turn a heavy motorcycle to the left is to gently turn the front wheel to the right. Motorcycle safety classes teach that, but most older riders can't be convinced and they won't relearn. The result is that they often "fail to negotiate a turn." Link
     
  17. robbalot

    robbalot Vancouver, Washington, United States Member

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    Roger that Gunner. Don't misunderstand me, I was not scoffing. I like the idea and respect the method. I practice often and train with a similar 'no sight' system for close quarter reasonable distance. I only use my sights outside 10yds because of the risk of flyers.

    But as 1911s are my preferred pistol of defense middle finger trigger work is not a practical option for me. As I mentioned, I have practiced some pressing the trigger with middle finger and find that for me the two fingered grip is not strong or controlled enough for me.

    Your right about counter steering. Took a defensive rider course with the CHP a few years back and that was one of the spookiest feelings...
     
  18. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    But only at first, right? Until you saw how well it worked and then you'd never go back?
     
  19. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    my father taught me how to point shoot at age 12 with masking tape on the sights. Then graduated to skeet shooting, no bead. when your batteries go dead or your scope takes a dump whatcha goin' ta do tech boys?

    BTW I still shoot better one handed than two, beats me.
     
  20. robbalot

    robbalot Vancouver, Washington, United States Member

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    Honestly, I don't apply that often, but I just did about half an hour ago on a quick putt to the store, just because we were talking about it. Still spooky on a 950lb American custom, but do-able. Of course dirt track riders yawn at the mention of counter steering....

    As part of the course it was a technique designed to show that a practiced skill can take you outside of the limitations your mind puts on the machine your operating... your point is well taken.

    I'll tell you what Gunner, I'm taking a 19yr old to the range tomorrow for his first time, I'm going to teach him safety and basics with handgun and rifle. I'll read the article and watch the vid again and spend a couple hundred honest rounds...