MSNBC: "Fewer gun deaths in states with most gun laws, study finds"

[CascadeSam]

This is now the latest spin put out by the mass media and gun-grabbers. I didn't see a link in the article to the study and of course they neglected to mention the gun violence and general violence rates in places such as Chicago, Detroit, and Oakland California which have among the most gun laws. Consider the extreme violence in the UK with its numerous gun control laws and few guns and that violence levels increased after guns were banned. Towards the end of the article it mentions that critics of the Boston based study have jumped all over its questionable science. I wonder what will happen when NYC budgets can no longer afford its approximately 50,000 member police and related city security forces to keep the gangstas from running freely -- killing, looting, and raping -- through all the nicer neighborhoods?

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/201...in-states-with-most-gun-laws-study-finds?lite

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[jordanvraptor]

I'm sure that makes the people who have been beaten to death with clubs or stabbed to death feel much better...

 

[BAMCIS]

NBC is well known for it's embellishment and outright lies in their "news" stories.

 

[Misterbill]

NBC is on an anti-gun Jihad and has been for years. It's as credible as Fox, which means anything that fits their chosen narrative is as reliable as Bagdhad Bob.

But specifically, why is "GUN violence" the issue? Are you extra-special dead if killed by a gun as opposed to some other object? OVERALL violence rates are always the real measure.

for instance, aside from what some people think, a lot of the Northeastern cities are actually relatively low crime and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. they were X% lower than national averages before their gun laws, and maintain about the same ratio to the rest of the country AFTER those laws.

And why is it that making everyone except criminals be unarmed somehow makes people safer again? This is something I have never understood.

Chicago, which has an astronomically high murder rate, accounting for as much as 4% of the NATIONAL TOTAL just in one city has gun control laws the Brady Bunch are always screaming for.

When you point this out, they claim that the guns come from other states or cities, neglecting to mention that the ONLY people bringing those guns in are engaged in serious felonies. So more laws would what? Make it "double-plus" illegal?

Every serious person I've ever known to examine this has come to the same conclusion:

the only way you'd make a serious dent in anything is a total ban and confiscation and mandatory minimums like 25 years no parole for posession of ANY gun. And then, you'd wind up cutting the murder rate, but probably making every other category of violent crime go UP.

And no one wants to tell the dirty secret, which is that the majority of murders are cases of one scumbag killing another scumbag. In other words, a PUBLIC SERVICE. Stranger-murder is truly rare as a category.

The vast majority of murders are two criminals, or a domestic dispute.

 

[bnsaibum]

Might be from here
Science Confirms The Obvious: Gun Laws Are Associated With Fewer Gun Deaths | Popular Science
It's from Popular Science, it must be correct.

Link to the study;
JAMA Network | JAMA Internal Medicine | Firearm Legislation and Firearm-Related Fatalities in the United StatesUS Firearm Laws and Firearm-Related Fatalities

 

[reloaderjoe]

No matter where you are there is no reason a law abiding american shouldnt be able to have a firearm. Not only to protect themselves, but also to practice their constitutional right. What people need to realize is that firearms have been manufactured for hundreds of years and there are far too many to try and control. The resources it would take to try and control or ban wouldnt be economical

 

[mortar maggot]

If you attack me with a gun, knive, bat, club, whatever, and I shoot you with my gun, you are now count as a gun death. This so called study does not differentiate between the why a person was killed; self defense, murder.

Statistics are easy to manipulate.

In the high gunownership areas, what is the robbery, rape, assault, etc, statistics. Yes, those can be manipulated also.

 

[wjv]

Love the comments on the PopSci article.

The readers shredded that article into a million pieces. . .

 

[ThePhonMan]

When I was a volunteer fireman in California we were told to report "alcohol involvement" in any traffic collision we rolled on. It didn't matter if the driver wasn't the one who had consumed the alcohol or if it was the cause or a contributing factor; we were required to document it. Anyone want to guess what data points Commifornia used to base their Drunk Driving stats on?

Nothing like cooking the books to skew the results the way you wanted in the first place. There's a problem with trying to create a preconceived causal connection backed by human-collected "statistics". There's no way to double-blind the data collection and result set.

 

[nehalemguy]

Love the comments on the PopSci article.

The readers shredded that article into a million pieces. . .

Indeed they did! I liked this one the best.

Kehvan
03/06/13 at 3:32 pm
Reminder... correlation doesn't equal causation.


E

 

[Heidland]

There was an article using a similar study on The Columbian this morning. My comment on that article is below:

I have seen study after study that reports this, all of them from very liberal organizations with a blatent anti-firearm ownership agenda, and all of them directly contradict the hard data on the subject.

If you compare the top five states with the strictest firearms laws you'll see those states have a much higher incidence of firearms murders than our less-strictly regulated state does...by far. If you dig around in each State's DOH and the CDC reports you'll also see that these states have a significantly higher amount of Suicide by Firearm than ours does.

NEW YORK - 2011 Firearm murders: 445
PENNSYLVANIA - 2011 Firearm murders: 470
ILLINOIS - 2011 Firearm murders: 377
MICHIGAN – 2011 Firearm murders: 450
CALIFORNIA - 2011 Firearm murders: 1,220

And our state;

Washington - 2011 Firearm murders: 78
(BTW, this is continuing the downward trend of firearm violence in our state over the last 32 years)

 

[Callidus98]

One thing I would add is that statistics don't matter. We have a fundamental right and responsibility to protect ourselves from criminals and our government if it comes to that.

No matter what the statistics actually are, there is never a legitimate reason to give up our rights.

 

[deen_ad]

And this "study" is exactly why such studies were defunded years ago and now Oblamo has issued a decree funding them again. So expect far more of them showing guns are bad and must be considered a "health problem" subject to Oblamocare and what they are doing to smokers now.

 

[gaijinsamurai]

Is anyone surprised that the Brady Center was a principle source of their information?

 

[Ligito]

Not really

 

[HahnsXD]

I haven't bothered to read the articles, but I can say with little doubt they've included suicide, accidents and justifiable homicides in their data, as they always do.

 

[drew]

Correlation is not causation.

 

[mancat]

Thing that pisses me off is that this study was reported on almost EVERY radio station I listen to - KIRO, KOMO, etc. all rattled off with this crap multiple times today during the hourly news segments, even without citing the source - simply referring to it instead as "a new study."

 

[9MilMan]

Lets talk about "gun violence" and what is demonized today . Today it is the evil Black Rifle (assault weapon-a term I never heard used in the military during my 25-yr career), and high cap mags. First of all, most "gun violence happens with hand guns, not rifles. And most gun violence is gang and drug related. There was a time that the "Saturday Night Special" was considered a criminals weapon (hence California's continuing restriction against sub 3-inch barrels). Anybody old enough to remember that? So today it is "assualt weapons". Tomorrow, your hunting rifle will be classified as a "sniper rifle". It will never end. Then your bow and arrow and air gun will be a "stealth weapon". I mean does it make any sense that a .22 with a silencer requires a special application and tax stamp, but an equally powerful air rifle is not even considered a firearm? They know what they know, don't confuse them with the facts.

 

[9edriver]

"As our study could not determine a cause-and-effect relationship, further studies are necessary to define the nature of this association."

This is taken directly from the study.