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MSNBC: "Fewer gun deaths in states with most gun laws, study finds"

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by CascadeSam, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. CascadeSam

    CascadeSam Portland Oregon Active Member

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    This is now the latest spin put out by the mass media and gun-grabbers. I didn't see a link in the article to the study and of course they neglected to mention the gun violence and general violence rates in places such as Chicago, Detroit, and Oakland California which have among the most gun laws. Consider the extreme violence in the UK with its numerous gun control laws and few guns and that violence levels increased after guns were banned. Towards the end of the article it mentions that critics of the Boston based study have jumped all over its questionable science. I wonder what will happen when NYC budgets can no longer afford its approximately 50,000 member police and related city security forces to keep the gangstas from running freely -- killing, looting, and raping -- through all the nicer neighborhoods?

  2. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that makes the people who have been beaten to death with clubs or stabbed to death feel much better...

    BAMCIS Eugene Well-Known Member

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    NBC is well known for it's embellishment and outright lies in their "news" stories.
  4. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    NBC is on an anti-gun Jihad and has been for years. It's as credible as Fox, which means anything that fits their chosen narrative is as reliable as Bagdhad Bob.

    But specifically, why is "GUN violence" the issue? Are you extra-special dead if killed by a gun as opposed to some other object? OVERALL violence rates are always the real measure.

    for instance, aside from what some people think, a lot of the Northeastern cities are actually relatively low crime and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. they were X% lower than national averages before their gun laws, and maintain about the same ratio to the rest of the country AFTER those laws.

    And why is it that making everyone except criminals be unarmed somehow makes people safer again? This is something I have never understood.

    Chicago, which has an astronomically high murder rate, accounting for as much as 4% of the NATIONAL TOTAL just in one city has gun control laws the Brady Bunch are always screaming for.

    When you point this out, they claim that the guns come from other states or cities, neglecting to mention that the ONLY people bringing those guns in are engaged in serious felonies. So more laws would what? Make it "double-plus" illegal?

    Every serious person I've ever known to examine this has come to the same conclusion:

    the only way you'd make a serious dent in anything is a total ban and confiscation and mandatory minimums like 25 years no parole for posession of ANY gun. And then, you'd wind up cutting the murder rate, but probably making every other category of violent crime go UP.

    And no one wants to tell the dirty secret, which is that the majority of murders are cases of one scumbag killing another scumbag. In other words, a PUBLIC SERVICE. Stranger-murder is truly rare as a category.

    The vast majority of murders are two criminals, or a domestic dispute.
    mosinguy1, Oklahomie, Redcap and 5 others like this.
  5. bnsaibum

    bnsaibum Corvallis, OR Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

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  6. reloaderjoe

    reloaderjoe Keizer Member

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    No matter where you are there is no reason a law abiding american shouldnt be able to have a firearm. Not only to protect themselves, but also to practice their constitutional right. What people need to realize is that firearms have been manufactured for hundreds of years and there are far too many to try and control. The resources it would take to try and control or ban wouldnt be economical
  7. mortar maggot

    mortar maggot western wa Active Member

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    If you attack me with a gun, knive, bat, club, whatever, and I shoot you with my gun, you are now count as a gun death. This so called study does not differentiate between the why a person was killed; self defense, murder.

    Statistics are easy to manipulate.

    In the high gunownership areas, what is the robbery, rape, assault, etc, statistics. Yes, those can be manipulated also.
  8. wjv

    wjv SW Washington State Active Member

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    Love the comments on the PopSci article.

    The readers shredded that article into a million pieces. . .
  9. ThePhonMan

    ThePhonMan Spokanistan Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    When I was a volunteer fireman in California we were told to report “alcohol involvement” in any traffic collision we rolled on. It didn’t matter if the driver wasn’t the one who had consumed the alcohol or if it was the cause or a contributing factor; we were required to document it. Anyone want to guess what data points Commifornia used to base their Drunk Driving stats on?

    Nothing like cooking the books to skew the results the way you wanted in the first place. There’s a problem with trying to create a preconceived causal connection backed by human-collected “statistics”. There’s no way to double-blind the data collection and result set.
  10. nehalemguy

    nehalemguy Vernonia Well-Known Member

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    Indeed they did! I liked this one the best.

    03/06/13 at 3:32 pm
    Reminder... correlation doesn't equal causation.

  11. Heidland

    Heidland SW Washington Active Member

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    There was an article using a similar study on The Columbian this morning. My comment on that article is below:

  12. Callidus98

    Callidus98 Portland Member

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    One thing I would add is that statistics don't matter. We have a fundamental right and responsibility to protect ourselves from criminals and our government if it comes to that.

    No matter what the statistics actually are, there is never a legitimate reason to give up our rights.
  13. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    And this "study" is exactly why such studies were defunded years ago and now Oblamo has issued a decree funding them again. So expect far more of them showing guns are bad and must be considered a "health problem" subject to Oblamocare and what they are doing to smokers now.
  14. gaijinsamurai

    gaijinsamurai Beaverton Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    Is anyone surprised that the Brady Center was a principle source of their information?
  15. Ligito

    Ligito Oregon Active Member

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    Not really
  16. HahnsXD

    HahnsXD Battle Ground WA Active Member

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    I haven't bothered to read the articles, but I can say with little doubt they've included suicide, accidents and justifiable homicides in their data, as they always do.
  17. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Correlation is not causation.
  18. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    Thing that pisses me off is that this study was reported on almost EVERY radio station I listen to - KIRO, KOMO, etc. all rattled off with this crap multiple times today during the hourly news segments, even without citing the source - simply referring to it instead as "a new study."
  19. 9MilMan

    9MilMan Milwaukie Active Member

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    Lets talk about "gun violence" and what is demonized today . Today it is the evil Black Rifle (assault weapon-a term I never heard used in the military during my 25-yr career), and high cap mags. First of all, most "gun violence happens with hand guns, not rifles. And most gun violence is gang and drug related. There was a time that the "Saturday Night Special" was considered a criminals weapon (hence California's continuing restriction against sub 3-inch barrels). Anybody old enough to remember that? So today it is "assualt weapons". Tomorrow, your hunting rifle will be classified as a "sniper rifle". It will never end. Then your bow and arrow and air gun will be a "stealth weapon". I mean does it make any sense that a .22 with a silencer requires a special application and tax stamp, but an equally powerful air rifle is not even considered a firearm? They know what they know, don't confuse them with the facts.
  20. 9edriver

    9edriver Vancouver, WA Member

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    "As our study could not determine a cause-and-effect relationship, further studies are necessary to define the nature of this association."

    This is taken directly from the study.