MSAR question what would you do?

[rsmccsman]

I recently bought a MSAR STG .223 (Steyr AUG clone) bullpup rifle that takes the same kind of mags as the AUG. These magazines are first rate just very expensive. However, MSAR also has recently come out with the E4 version that takes AR magazines. Originally I was going to just buy the E4 because of the availability of inexpensive AR magazines. The E4 however is selling at a premium running about $300 more than the STG version. I got a really good deal on the STG over $300 less than the comparable E4 version. If the price had been closer I would have just bought an E4. Now I found you can buy a replacement stock for the STG (Gen 4 only) to convert it to the E4 for $300. Doing so would give me the flexibility to change it to use either magazine for the same total price as if I had just bought the E4.

So my question is do I spend that $300 on the E4 stock so I can use my AR magazines in it, or for that same $300 I could buy more STG magazines than I will probably ever need for it but don't have the AR compatibility for the SHTF scenario "hey buddy pass me a mag I'm out." What to do? :huh:

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[matt_w]

I'd go for the AR compatibility...it's always super annoying to have a bunch of parts that only work for one of your guns.

 

[asiparks]

Last I contacted Ratworx, prices on the STG mags were about the same as PMags. Give them a call, their website is way outdated.....

 

[jordanvraptor]

I bought an stg556 as well. I just got 5 42rd mags for around $70 shipped. The clear ones are more spendy but I never really felt my AR mags needed to be see through. E4 stock not necessary imho.

 

[Boats]

The relatively fragile lipped and aluminum bodied "GI mags" of the M-16/AR-15 are one the weakest links in an otherwise pretty good weapon system. Since you've already invested in the AUG style system, you should just keep going, with 42 rounders that are also tougher to boot.

I find it funny in a way. I own scads of 1911 and Beretta 92 magazines but I don't shop for other pistols wishing I had magazine compatibility.

Different system? Get 10-15 mags and call it good, especially since MSAR and Ratworx aren't raping people for them. The chances of them all breaking or you dropping them all on the ground during fire fights, never to be seen again, is remote at best. Besides, doesn't the slower mag change of a bullpup like the AUG/MSAR promote retention in the first place?

 

[pencap]

The real issue (as I see it) is that of future caliber conversions.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know someone will)-

An STG556, even with the E4 stock, will not be able to take the forthcoming conversions.

An E4 will be able to take the conversions.

Ratworx is out right now, so maybe now would be a good time to peddle what you have and go without until they get restocked.

 

[rsmccsman]

The real issue (as I see it) is that of future caliber conversions.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know someone will)-

An STG556, even with the E4 stock, will not be able to take the forthcoming conversions.

An E4 will be able to take the conversions.

Ratworx is out right now, so maybe now would be a good time to peddle what you have and go without until they get restocked.

My understanding from Ratworx was that the STG with the E4 stock put on it is essentially exactly the same as an E4. So if the E4 were able to accept a caliber conversion kit I don't know why an STG with an E4 stock would not be able to accept that same conversion kit. If you have information to the contrary please share the source.

It is an interesting point though in that it would be cool to have an MSAR that could fire many different rounds by swapping a few parts out and if only the E4 version could accept the conversion that would make a stronger argument for getting one of the E4 stocks.

However, I don't think I am ready to "peddle" my STG just yet even if Ratworx is out of stock on E4 conversion stocks, they will likely get some in again at a later point in time.

Since I have not seen any of these conversion kits become available yet that argument hasn't swayed me just yet.

The posts about the quality of the AUG type magazines vs AR is a strong argument too and if I can find a reasonably priced source like the guy who got 5 x42 round magazines for $70 I would be all for it. The cheapest I have seen those go for is Ratworx for $28 each. 30 rd for $27 20 round for $23 and $20 for the 10 rounders, although I have seen the 10 rounders packaged as low as 5 for $55 on GB, but how many 10 rounders do you need if you don't live in California?

 

[crosse]

i got 8 30 rounders in amber from ratworx for $13 each a month ago. the 42 rounders for 13.50. that's expensive??? I know I'm an....

 

[rsmccsman]

I bought an stg556 as well. I just got 5 42rd mags for around $70 shipped. The clear ones are more spendy but I never really felt my AR mags needed to be see through. E4 stock not necessary imho.

i got 8 30 rounders in amber from ratworx for $13 each a month ago. the 42 rounders for 13.50. that's expensive??? I know I'm an....

Ok I have been on Ratworx site a lot and have never seen these kind of prices listed. I also am on Gunbroker almost everyday and haven't seen auction prices like these either. So if you have a secret to how you got these great deals I would love to know, because I have yet to come across such amazing prices. If I can get these deals, then problem solved I am buying STG magazines. But how do I get the deal? I will contact Ratworx.

Well I contacted Ratworx and their website prices are out of date. They emailed me that their prices are $15 for @ magazine right now. I missed the sale. They only have black 30 rounders and amber 10 rounders. They should be getting some 42 rounders in soon. I can live with $15 a magazine a lot easier than say $30-$40 @. I think for now I will go with Ratworx.

Thanks for everyones input.

 

[rsmccsman]

My understanding from Ratworx was that the STG with the E4 stock put on it is essentially exactly the same as an E4. So if the E4 were able to accept a caliber conversion kit I don't know why an STG with an E4 stock would not be able to accept that same conversion kit. If you have information to the contrary please share the source.

It is an interesting point though in that it would be cool to have an MSAR that could fire many different rounds by swapping a few parts out and if only the E4 version could accept the conversion that would make a stronger argument for getting one of the E4 stocks.

However, I don't think I am ready to "peddle" my STG just yet even if Ratworx is out of stock on E4 conversion stocks, they will likely get some in again at a later point in time.

Since I have not seen any of these conversion kits become available yet that argument hasn't swayed me just yet.

The posts about the quality of the AUG type magazines vs AR is a strong argument too and if I can find a reasonably priced source like the guy who got 5 x42 round magazines for $70 I would be all for it. The cheapest I have seen those go for is Ratworx for $28 each. 30 rd for $27 20 round for $23 and $20 for the 10 rounders, although I have seen the 10 rounders packaged as low as 5 for $55 on GB, but how many 10 rounders do you need if you don't live in California?

I just got this information from Ratworx to clarify the issue with the E4 conversion stocks. It is as follows.

Let me put your mind at ease on this matter. The inward working parts of the STG a and E4 are identical, so if you have an E4 and a later STG with the E4 conversion stock, you have essentially the same guns. The conversions are set to use the E4 as a foundation because of the AR mags already available in all the conversion calibers, the 6.8 SPC, 7.62X39, and the 5.45X39. We have been getting only a very slow trickle of items
out of MSAR , a few parts here and a couple of stocks there , just got a couple the other day. They were gone before an hour passed to customers whose names have been on our backorder list for months. We are waiting for more, however, which should be coming. When available, the E4 stocks
or the STG stocks are $300 plus shipping each and come complete with the trigger pack, buttplate, and buttplate pin.

So even though I can now get affordable STG magazines I may also in the future also invest in an E4 stock as well to take advantage of the caliber conversion kits when they become available as well.

 

[Silver Fox]

Quick question to all-

what does this 7.62x39 mag look like for these MSAR rifles?

SF-

 

[rsmccsman]

Quick question to all-

what does this 7.62x39 mag look like for these MSAR rifles?

SF-

My guess is that will look like just like any of the magazines in that caliber that are designed for the AR platform. I don't think it would be AK combatible or anything like that. But there are different makers of AR magazines for these different calibers that fit into an AR compatible mag well. I think that MSAR will be putting out their own version of these just as they do with the E4 magazines that are AR compatible.

 

[crosse]

We are waiting for more, however, which should be coming. When available, the E4 stocks
or the STG stocks are $300 plus shipping each and come complete with the trigger pack, buttplate, and buttplate pin.

WOW. I don't even have to take out the trigger pack! nice nice nice
not like it looked that hard anyways. But now I can do a complete body change conversion in seconds.

 

[Redrum]

just FYI in case you come across any for cheap...Steyr AUG mags will fit in the MSAR with a small 1/8 inch grind on 2 ribs on the sides of the magazine..basically Microtech eliminated a spot on the ribs on their magazines when the did the design...they are identical other than that...its too bad I just sold out a boat load of them for $10 a piece or I'd hook you up.

trigger pack is easy to remove and I would highly recommned one of these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161404752

makes the bulpup trigger much much better... I dare say its the best $65 bucks you can spend on the gun. (its not my auction either)

 

[rsmccsman]

just FYI in case you come across any for cheap...Steyr AUG mags will fit in the MSAR with a small 1/8 inch grind on 2 ribs on the sides of the magazine..basically Microtech eliminated a spot on the ribs on their magazines when the did the design...they are identical other than that...its too bad I just sold out a boat load of them for $10 a piece or I'd hook you up.

trigger pack is easy to remove and I would highly recommned one of these:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=161404752

makes the bulpup trigger much much better... I dare say its the best $65 bucks you can spend on the gun. (its not my auction either)

Thanks for the tip I will make the investment. Last time I called Ratworx they were out of all but the 10 rd STG mags and were back ordered on E4 stocks. So I am still waiting. If the E4 stock become available first I will likely just go that route.