Moving to grizzly country

[Certaindeaf]

Have friends with large ankles.

 

[NCW_Robert]

1) Bear spray
2) .45-70 lever gun
3) handgun vs Grizzly would be a disaster IMO

While the big calibers such as the .45-70 are preferred a hand gun can do the job, check out the link, guide takes out grizz at close range with 9mm.

I'd go with the 10mm glock with buffalo ammo. I'd carry an extra mag or two. No you probably wont have time or need to reload but I'd just feel better with more rounds on hand.

 

[turq]

Last year wife and I were at Glacier NP up towards Polebridge we stopped at a rest area view pullout. Sign at the trail said "Beware of bears; they have been known to kill people for no apparent reason."
Except that trail led out thru huckleberry fields, the bears' lunch spot I imagine.
Big country.

 

[The Heretic]

Hey all, I'm moving to the Flathead County area of Montana and I was wondering what type of sidearm you would carry while hiking. My thought would be either a S&W 629 in .44 or a Glock 10mm. I'm leaning more towards the Glock due to my experience and training. However a .44 has its upside. Thoughts? Any response would be appreciated. Keys.

Ammo is important. Buffalo Bore heavy ammo they recommend for dangerous animals is where I would start.

A 10mm pistol with the right ammo and a long enough barrel to work with the ammo would be ok, assuming you do your part.

When I rode my dirt bike over to Pole Bridge and around GNP, I took a DW .44 magnum revolver, as I did when I worked in Alaska. Today I would carry my 329PD in .44 mag with Barnes bear loads (325 gr JSP with a thicker jacket and harder lead @1300 FPS). If I were traveling in a vehicle I would include one of my 12 ga. Shockwaves with slugs. If I were working on the North Slope where there are Polar Bears, I would have both the Shockwave and my 460V as the polar bears are less timid (as in they fear nothing) than brown bears and are much larger.

 

[The Heretic]

Shot placement. I grew up in the Flathead.

This story tells a lot. Lou was a good friend of my dad.
Grizzly Attack Caught on Camera

What I was told by guides when I worked in the field in Alaska, was when a charging bear comes at you to first shoot for the shoulders, then the hips - assuming you have ammo that will penetrate and break bones. Large bears are hard to kill and don't always know when they are dead, so you impair their ability to move first.

 

[The Heretic]

I didn't live in Alaska or Montana, but I spent some months in both, working in all seasons in transmitter shacks in areas away from cities. I also did some hiking on the Kenai and visited Denali. Spent some time hunting in E. Washington and lived and hunted in the Orygun Coastal Range.

I have never seen a bear in the wild. I know that bears have come with 50 feet of my house - I've seen their scat. But I've never seen one.

In Canada and Alaska, more people are injured and killed by encounters with moose than bear.

 

[The Heretic]

I didn't live in Alaska or Montana, but I spent some months in both, working in all seasons in transmitter shacks in areas away from cities. I also did some hiking on the Kenai and visited Denali. Spent some time hunting in E. Washington and lived and hunted in the Orygun Coastal Range.

I have never seen a bear in the wild. I know that bears have come with 50 feet of my house - I've seen their scat. But I've never seen one.

In Canada and Alaska, more people are injured and killed by encounters with moose than bear.

That said...

 

[Martini_Up]

I didn't live in Alaska or Montana, but I spent some months in both, working in all seasons in transmitter shacks in areas away from cities. I also did some hiking on the Kenai and visited Denali. Spent some time hunting in E. Washington and lived and hunted in the Orygun Coastal Range.

I have never seen a bear in the wild. I know that bears have come with 50 feet of my house - I've seen their scat. But I've never seen one.

In Canada and Alaska, more people are injured and killed by encounters with moose than bear.

And more people are killed with encounters with drunk drivers then moose and bear combined. And that's worldwide. So what's the best pistol for that?



I live in black bear country and have occasionally seen them while fishing. Hiking, I make a lot of noise and they clear out before I see them but many times not before they leave me a steaming pile on the trail to let me know they were there.

The mountain lions are a different story. They are quiet and sneaky. That's why I often bring my dog with me as he can smell the cats and lets me know one is nearby.

 

[The Heretic]

Cougars here too. Others have seen them. I have not - at least not in the wild (a friend kept several as "pets" and I got to pet one).

Just saying, that while I would carry if I still lived or worked or traveled in brown bear country, I don't think the chances of encountering one in the wild, much less being attacked by one, is as risky as a lot of people think - especially since we see a lot of "what is the best gun for bear protection" threads.

In Alaska, a lot of people have dogs because they think the dogs will protect them while out and about in the bush. But what actually happens is they encounter moose much more often (I have encountered moose in Alaska) and what is the natural enemy of moose? The wolf. A moose doesn't know a dog from a wolf - it just sees a wolf either way. So it tries to stomp the dog, and often the owner gets tangled up in the stomping too. Happens a lot during the sled races.

But most injuries and deaths come from hitting a moose with a vehicle.

Me - I have close encounters with deer almost weekly when driving down off the mountain. If I don't hit one before I retire in a year or two I will be lucky - so far I have been living here for almost 8 years and I have not hit one - come very close several times a year though.

 

[PNWguy]

Didn't read all of the responses since I'm pretty sure what they will cover.

What I will make sure is covered is that a bear attack will most likely be a close quarters rapid affair with only 2-3 rounds fired in sheer terror.
I would recommend a double action revolver with a shorter barrel in .44 magnum, .45 Casull, or .45 Colt.
You don't want to have something that you have to thumb the hammer back on or will not fired if the slide is pushed back.

 

[titsonritz]

The elite Slædepatruljen Sirius (Sirius Sledge Patrol) or informally Siriuspatruljen (Sirius Patrol) is a 14-man Royal Danish Navy unit that conducts long-range reconnaissance and enforces Danish sovereignty in the arctic wilderness of Northern and Eastern Greenland, they pack a G20 10mm for defense against polar bears.

As a sidearm, each member of the patrol also carries on him at all times an early-generation Glock Model 20 pistol in 10mm Auto. Those 10mm aficionados out there know of its power and mystique, but for those who do not lets break it down.
Back in the late 1970s, a group of firearms engineers working on what would later be the controversial Bren 10 pistol visited firearms guru Colonel Jeff Cooper to get his input on the ultimate handgun round. After several months of talks and some final tweaking by Norma cartridges of Sweden, the Centimeter round was fully developed. As you know, a centimeter is 10mm and by 1983 the 10mm Auto burst onto the scene. Using the case of the old .30-caliber Remington carbine round with a 25mm length, the 10mm Auto remains one of the hottest and most powerful production handgun rounds in history.

Typical loads range from 135-200 grain bullets but all deliver over 550 ft. /pounds of energy and approach speeds of almost 1600fps. The 10mm outperforms the .40 S&W by 200–250 ft. /s on average for similar bullet weights and has a pressure of more than 37,500 psi, some 2,500psi higher than the .40S&W. However it still delivers about 100-ft pounds more energy than the average .357SIG round, for about 2,500psi less pressure.

In short, this superhot, hard-hitting round is hard to beat. Moreover, coupled in the G20, you get 15+1 rounds good to go with a loaded weight of 39-ounces, which is about the same as an (unloaded) Colt M1911A1 Government, which is the generational equivalent to the Dane's old Enfield rifles.

The Glocks of Greenland

 

[The Heretic]

I like my .40 SIGs. I like the fact that the sectional density of the projectile in 180+ grains is pretty good.

The 10mm would be even better. I don't think you will get over 1200-1300 fps with 180-200 grain projectiles though - and that is not as good as the .44 magnum.

Unfortunately SIG is discontinuing more and more of its "classic" DA/SA metal framed guns, only keeping the most popular and common models - the 226 and 229 in 9mm and 40. The 224 (compact 9mm and .40) and 227 (basically a 14 round 226 in .45 ACP) have been discontinued.

The only 10mm SIG sells is the 220 and it is 8-10 rounds.

If SIG would make a 227 with a steel frame and 12-14 round mags in 10mm I might buy one - but that will probably never happen.

Maybe the newcomer AREX will come out with something hi cap in 10mm. They make what is essentially a 226 clone (no parts interchangeable). Or maybe CZ would make a DA/SA steel framed hi cap in 10mm.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Didn't read the whole thread but make sure your wiz bang ammo doesn't fly sideways (BB 10mm out of stock barrels) or the slugs creep forward out of revolvers to tie up the gun.. yada yada.

 

[Savage Jav]

AK slay capitalist bear same as russian bear

 

[OldBroad44]

Reality check. 10 mm is only powerful compared with other semi auto calibers. With hot loads of about 550 ft lbs it is equivalent to a standard .357 load. Not even a hot .357 load. We haven't bothered to discuss anything that whimpy in revolvers, where we can carry .44 mags with fatter heavier bullets, and charged up to about 1400 ft lbs if we want. Bear loads in revolvers are better designed for penetration too. Flatter noses, larger meplats, sharper edges. Even semi auto bullets designed to penetrate must have somewhat rounded bullets so they feed properly. I would trust a .357 mag HSM Bear load way before any 10 mm bullet. But if you get the bullet into the bears brain, a 10 mm or .357 is going to do just fine to instantly incapacitate. A 44 mag would be more likely to incapacitate instantly from a body shot, but not reliably enough to make that a good strategy. If you want to be able to incapacitate from a body shot you need a rifle or shotgun. If you figure self defense with a handgun requires head shots, the issue is not what is more powerful but what is powerful enough that you shoot well enough to get head shots on a charging bear. For me that would be a 44. The OP said he was far more familiar with 10mm, so that is best for him.

 

[mrblond]

on another note, if your looking for a pistol option.. while it IS a pistol, it may be to large for your thinking, but an AR pistol in 458 SOCOM would do the job as well

 

[Certaindeaf]

Reality check. 10 mm is only powerful compared with other semi auto calibers. With hot loads of about 550 ft lbs it is equivalent to a standard .357 load. Not even a hot .357 load. We haven't bothered to discuss anything that whimpy in revolvers, where we can carry .44 mags with fatter heavier bullets, and charged up to about 1400 ft lbs if we want. Bear loads in revolvers are better designed for penetration too. Flatter noses, larger meplats, sharper edges. Even semi auto bullets designed to penetrate must have somewhat rounded bullets so they feed properly. I would trust a .357 mag HSM Bear load way before any 10 mm bullet. But if you get the bullet into the bears brain, a 10 mm or .357 is going to do just fine to instantly incapacitate. A 44 mag would be more likely to incapacitate instantly from a body shot, but not reliably enough to make that a good strategy. If you want to be able to incapacitate from a body shot you need a rifle or shotgun. If you figure self defense with a handgun requires head shots, the issue is not what is more powerful but what is powerful enough that you shoot well enough to get head shots on a charging bear. For me that would be a 44. The OP said he was far more familiar with 10mm, so that is best for him.

Amen.. I mean Oldbroad, lol.
Indeed, a Ruger only .44 magnum is probably the ticket. WAY outclasses the 10mm. And for me, a hardish Keith slug instead a one a the newer flat nosers.

 

[OldBroad44]

There's a good article on handgun self defense against bears on the Garrett ammo website. Note that the Garrett .44 310 gr. superhardcast Defender load is milder than a standard hunting load, not hotter. This is following the principles that with handgun defense against bears, head shots are essential, and the attacks can happen very fast and necessitate shooting a bear that is already on you. So you need to be able to shoot with one handed and either hand. And rapid follow-up shots can matter a lot more than maximum power.

With a .44 weighing about 50 oz, I can shoot well with either hand with loads up to about 1000 ft lbs. A full ordinary hunting load is normally 1100 to 1200. For those I need two hands to be able to do reasonably fast follow up shots. The HSM .44 mag Bear load is about 1000. The Garrett Defender is even milder, about 800 - 900. I'd also feel comfortable with a hot-loaded .44 special such as the Grizzly 265 gr wide Flat nose. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the hot Buffalo Boar loads for self defense, as I would not be able to control these well enough with one hand for follow up shots. Even with the big heavy revolvers I like.

 

[OldBroad44]

Amen.. I mean Oldbroad, lol.
Indeed, a Ruger only .44 magnum is probably the ticket. WAY outclasses the 10mm. And for me, a hardish Keith slug instead a one a the newer flat nosers.

I'd feel good carrying a Keith hardcast too.

 

[Martini_Up]

Just to clear up some erroneous opinions on the ballistics of the 10mm, here are the specs of one mfg...