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Move Sig P238 rear sight

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Gunsmithing' started by jauguston, Dec 23, 2012.

  1. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    I just purchased a 238. At 25' it shoots about 6" right. I have a Lasergard on it and have it tweeked so it is right on. Sig says clamp it in a vice and hit the sight with a punch and hammer. Their $200.00 sight adjusting tool won't work on a 238 they say. Have any of you moved the sight on a P238?

    Jim
     
  2. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    I never move a sight until I've shot the pistol on a machine rest or at least from a sandbag hold. All too often the "error" comes from grip and what you're doing with your hand.

    If you're absolutely certain it's sight position then just clamp the slide in the soft jaws and do as they said. Would be a good idea to make a small scribed witness mark BEFORE you do so to make it easy to see how much you've moved it.

    Lots of "handgun" sight issues have been solved just by using this as a target then adjusting as suggested.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5WDm2adreJWgysO0Z4dZ96e03tYlrMlBEdKBg-yXHQP9SoXPs.png
     
  3. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Deadshot,

    Thanks for the helpful post. The circle is heplful and I could be doing some of that. I am shooting at the Plantation Indoor Range in Bellingham and using the sandbag rest for most of the time. I have put about 80 rounds through it so far. I am a new old shooter. Last time I shot anything was 1957-1961 in the USMC. Using the Lasergard my 6 shot groups are pretty well centered and I can cover them with my fist. Using the gun sight I don't have as tight a group and it is about 6" right and a little bit low at 25'. I have a depth micrometer to check movement of the sight. Sig says .020 sight movement equals 2" of shot movement. at 25'. I will give the hammer/punch plan a try.

    Jim
     
  4. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Deadshot,

    Another question if I have not exceeded my limit for Decenber(-:

    Again This P238 is new with about 80 rounds through it and I am a new shooter. I also have a new Ruger SR22 with about the same amount of rounds through it. Both with Crimson Trace Lasers. I am very pleased with the Ruger and I can put 10 in about a 3" circle at 25' using the sand bag rest. The Sig I am not happy with yet. Sitting here at home over Christmas chaos I have been thinking why I don't like the Sig. I had a idea and just came in from my shop doing some testing. The Ruger trigger pull feel seemed like it felt much better than the Sig-much smoother. I found what I think is a lot of the reason. I first clamped the Ruger grip up in my vice. I cocked the hammer - ran a loop of string through the trigger in about where I figured the center of force from my finger was and hooked the other ends of the string loop to my digital fish scale. Three in a row it took 6 pounds and 8 ounces of pull to dry fire it. Did the same with the Sig. My scale limit is 10 pounds. My estimate is it takes 11-12 pounds of pull to dry fire it. That just doesn't seem right. What do you think?? Anybody??

    Jim
     
  5. RetiredLEO

    RetiredLEO Southern Oregon Coast Active Member

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    That's the way Sig builds them. It's designed for very close defensive use, often by inexperienced ladies and no one including Sig wants them going off unintentionally. I've had several since they came out and they are all the same. Not a target weapon.....as long as you can keep your group centered, and there are no failures, your gun is doing what it is designed to do.

    Semper Fi
     
  6. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    No limit to questions (except to those who are just bored and like to pick fights).

    If the trigger pull is truly 12 lbs this is really heavy. It's supposed to be down at the 7-1/2 to 8 lb range.

    As Retired LEO said, it's not a target pistol but a purely defensive one. If you can put shots in the center of a small paper plate at 25 feet it's fulfilled it's purpose. In a SD situation, trigger pull truly won't be much of an issue. You'd be amazed at how much strength your finger will suddenly have.

    If the pull is truly an issue for you, have someone with an accurate trigger pull gauge check it. Another way to make sure that your readings are correct is to use a piece of welding rod for a trigger hook, clamp the pistol in a vice vertically, then hang known weights from the rod. Large fishing sinkers that you have verified for weight on a postal scale work great (Years ago I used the scale in the reception area of my local post office:cool:) Also, in order to insure uniformity in your measurements make sure the "hook" is on the same point on the trigger. Two pieces of thick tape with a small gap for the hook is one way to do this.

    Once you've determined the exact trigger pull, contact Sig. They may adjust it for you.

    I have a Sig P229 which has a 12lb Double Action pull and when in SA mode it's 5-1/2 lbs. Not an issue as I have "practiced out" the effect. That pistol has over 40k rounds through it and still works flawlessly.
     
  7. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Thanks again Deadshot,

    I was using a digital 10 lb fish scale for my test. I guess the thing that troubles me is the difference between the Ruger SR22 and the 238 trigger pull. The Ruger feels so smooth and "Right" at 6.5 pounds and the 238 when I am trying to squeeze off a round my hand literally shakes I am pulling so hard. I didn,t bother trying to test the DA pull as I can barely pull it. I understand about the SD scenario but darn it this thing just doesn't feel right.
    I talked to a local gunsmith yesterday about lowering the pull a little and he was hesitant to touch it due to potential liability issues modifying it. I am considering taking it apart and seeing if I can smooth some of the parts that work against each other to try and get rid of some of the roughness I feel as I pull.
    The gunsmith did notice the front sight was not properly centered and that could explain it shooting Right. He tried to move it but it would not move. He soaked it with Break Free and said try it in a day or two. Thanks again for the input.

    Jim
     
  8. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    I would contact Sig. They may direct you to a local "authorized" shop for warranty repair. Otherwise, they may send a shipping tag for return to their shop for exam and repair. 12# in Single Action sounds to me like there is clearly an issue that should be corrected by Sig.

    Call 'em. The worst they could do is say "No":huh:
     
  9. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Progress!! I was able to get the front sight to move today. It was TIGHT. The range opens at 2pm tomorrow so I will see how I did. TMJ 380 ammo hard to find. None at Yeagers. None at Kesselrings. Found some at Holliday Sports. Bought 400 rounds of Blazer steel case. I had been shooting the Made in Skagit County reloads. The fellow at Holliday said that reloader was having trouble getting brass. TMJ and hollow point is about all Plantation will allow indoors. I am going to wait until I get several hundred more rounds through it before I worry any more about the trigger pull.

    Jim
     
  10. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Shooters can expect to see more of this in the near future. Any bullet with exposed lead bases is a source of lead vapor. Exposed lead at the hollow point isn't exposed to the high heat and when the bullets hit the traps, often fragmenting, the lead is released a long way from the shooter. Indoor ranges are getting close scrutiny from the "regulators". Like I opened up, expect more bullet restrictions from indoor ranges. Lead Free ammo is the next step and we're starting to see it at a few ranges.

    TMJ is one term for covered base bullets, CMJ is another. Lots of reloaders get the CMJ from Montana Gold and load their own to avoid the high costs of "specialty" ammo.
     
  11. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Called Sig to ask about my trigger pull. The supposed tech support guy said about 5 pounds. Mine is 7.5+. He said too bad can't be changed. Said they do no work on P 238-938 guns at all . He was basicly rude. I mentioned his attitude to our local gun store buyer. He said Sig Sauer is very nearly the worst for customer service. He said CZ was the worst. I will get used to it I guess.

    Jim
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Opinions certainly vary. I have both a Sig and a CZ. Never needed to contact Sig for anything so I can't speak to their Customer Service but CZ has been exceptional for me. ONE contact via e-mail and the necessary part was sent. Showed up 2 days later at no charge and with it was a CZ Gunsmith's card with the note "call me if you ever need".
     
  13. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    The Sig guy was anything but what you would expect a customer service person to be. It was almost like he didn't want to even acknowledge the P238-938 were even their products. I know nothing about CZ the comment came from our local gun shop buyer. He said there are only three distributors for Sig in the US. He said that is because they are so hard to deal with. The fellow at the local gun shop has been doing this for 30 years so I would guess he has a pretty good idea of the way various manufacturers treat their distributors and dealers.
     
  14. cowboygraphics

    cowboygraphics Beaverton, OR Active Member

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    Interesting comments regarding Sig cust service. I have had several Sigs and borderline fan. Recently bought a P238 AND the trigger was was too heavy ... not right. I contacted them, they emailed a shipping label and it was back in just over a week. Works great - as it should have new out of the box. Very happy with the trigger and the entire cust service experience. Bummer that you did not have the same experience. May I suggest one more call - perhaps you will get a different cust service tech.
     
  15. jauguston

    jauguston Bellingham,WA Member

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    Calling Sig is a effort in futility. It took me 34 tries over 2 weeks to finally get through to a real person at Sig to order a different (#8) rear sight for my 238. They would put me on hold for 15 minutes then disconnect.

    Jim