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Mountain men carried knives...who would have thunk it...? :D

The two most common types were :
The Butcher knife *
And
The scalping knife.
These two names are found all throughout period fur trade accounts , ledger books , journals and narratives.
*Yes I know that Butchers use a lot of different knives of different shapes....I can only say that in the period accounts , that is the name they used.

The term "Trade Knife" is also seen fairly commonly.
A Trade Knife was simply a knife made for use in the fur trade.
What gets confusing is that the three terms , Butcher , Scalper and Trade Knife , are often used interchangeably.

Pictured below are some knives that would have been very familiar to the mountain man or Indian.
All of the knives below are old as in from the 1890's or so....
And while they are "newer" than say a knife used in the rendezvous period of the fun trade ( 1825- 1840 )
They are indeed the same shape , styling and size that would have been used then.

Most Trade knives ( Butcher or scalper style ) had blades between 5 1/2 and 8 inches long. ( carbon steel )
Sported hard wood handles...and a tapered half tang....held to the handles by a series of three to five pins.

in the picture below you will see three knives , one of the "Scalper" and two of the "Butcher pattern.
Again , all three date from the 1890's to 19 teens.
All three are still in use today , as camping and hunting knives.

The top one is the "Scalper"pattern
it was made by "Universal " ( they went under in 1920 )
It originally had a hard wood handle that broke apart...I added the antler handle as a replacement.
Antler was used a lot as a knife handle...usually in a homemade knife...not so common in a factory "trade" of "scalper" knife...
But I do like the look.
The blade is 5 1/2 inches long.

The next knife is a Christopher & Johnson knife from Sheffield England.
The knife is of the "Butcher" pattern.
The blade is also 5 1/2 inches long.
It came to me without a handle....I made a handle from compressed cow horn and added some large checkering ...
This was seen from time to time on period knifes....

The third knife is a Russel Green River "Butcher" knife...
7 inch blade...hard wood handle.



DSC05780.jpg

Pocket knives were also used....the two most common were the "Penny Knife" and the Barlow knife.

Also as early as 1837...there are references to "Bowie" knives...being carried by mountain men.
Now a real easy way to start a "knife fight" is to say :
A mountain man carried a carried a Bowie knife and here is what it looked like....
I have my own ideas of what a fur trade period Bowie Knife looked like...
But that might be a subject best left for a different thread.
Andy
 
All the way up to Green River,is that how it is supposed to be?

That was a common phrase....from the 1840's and later...
The Green River knife works didn't get started till 1832 or so...

The actual Green River Knives were popular , for sure...but a bit late for the "Rendezvous era"...1825 -1840.
Not saying that they weren't used then and there..
Just that they weren't as commonly seen as other Trade Knives during that era.

George Ruxton and Lewis Garrard in their period writings make much use of this knife and phrase.
Both wrote accounts of the Santa Fe Trail in the year 1846 -1847.
Both were also widely read and a huge influence on what we today think of in terms of the mountain man and what he used , said and did.

"Up to Green River"

It meant to " go all the way" , or to fully commit oneself to the job at hand....
It came from the stamping of "Green River Knife Works" near the hilt of the knife of the same name.

Another grimmer meaning was when a mountain man stabbed an opponent to death...plunging the knife all the way in...to the stamping on the blade.
Andy
 
Another wonderful history lesson Andy...thank you, crank out as much as you can...
in fact, we all need to hold you to this:
But that might be a subject best left for a different thread.
And with your respect and diligence for historical accuracy, calm logic, clarity, and Vast Knowledge of that time period, your personal perspective on a Bowie knife would be highly valued.
Cool to know the origin of "up to Green River." Grim but cool!

And maybe the antler handle on the factory-made scalper is not so common but isn't that what the mountain man would have done? Make his own? Seems a great in-period choice.
And yes, it is beautiful.
 
And maybe the antler handle on the factory-made scalper is not so common but isn't that what the mountain man would have done? Make his own? Seems a great in-period choice.

Thank you for your kind words Catie.

Antler was used for sure with knives of the time period in question.
Trade Knives were mass produced and meant to be made with good materials but also so the fur trade companies could still make a profit.
That meant for a trade knife , a hard wood handle , as that is less expensive than antler.

Antler handles are mostly seen either on homemade knives or "upper end knives"
A repair like mine would have been done with what was available ....Antler , horn and bone being commonly used.
Andy
 
That was a common phrase....from the 1840's and later...
The Green River knife works didn't get started till 1832 or so...

The actual Green River Knives were popular , for sure...but a bit late for the "Rendezvous era"...1825 -1840.
Not saying that they weren't used then and there..
Just that they weren't as commonly seen as other Trade Knives during that era.

George Ruxton and Lewis Garrard in their period writings make much use of this knife and phrase.
Both wrote accounts of the Santa Fe Trail in the year 1846 -1847.
Both were also widely read and a huge influence on what we today think of in terms of the mountain man and what he used , said and did.

"Up to Green River"

It meant to " go all the way" , or to fully commit oneself to the job at hand....
It came from the stamping of "Green River Knife Works" near the hilt of the knife of the same name.

Another grimmer meaning was when a mountain man stabbed an opponent to death...plunging the knife all the way in...to the stamping on the blade.
Andy
RRBRestore-GunKnifeHornssm.jpg RRBRestore-Knifesm.jpg

Here's a knife my dad made for me in the tradition of the scalping knife. Here it's resting on the pair of bison horns that came with the rolling block rifle. I'll see if I can drag it out and get some better pictures of it. I made the sheath.
 
To clarify on the term "Scalper" , "Scalping Knife"...

To be a bit grim....a scalp can be taken with any knife...one does not need a special knife to do this.

In my opinion...with the way the term was used in ledger books and account books during the fur trade....
A "scalper" or "Scalping knife" was more of a sales pitch ...not a knife made specially to take scalps.
The term was used to differentiate between the style commonly called a "Butcher" and this one ...called a scalping knife.
Andy
 
I have always been fascinated with the era and the tools and equipment carried, Knives being an especially useful tool, I find my self drawn to what was carried and why! How was it meant to be used, what types of game was it used on, what other tasks would it be capable of! There were far more designs made and sold then we know of, many makers had several designs they came up with for specific tasks, and the more savvy hunters and trappers could commission a knife from a maker for his own specific needs and desires!
I wish I had photos of the Knifes my Great Grand Father carried, He had a sort of hybrid butchers knife he used for everything, and it was very well worn, but still quite serviceable. He also had what we today would call a fillet knife, a long thin sort of flexible knife that he used for skinning as well as processing fish! Talk about handy! Finally, he had what we always called a "Caper" which was a bearded ( Long Curved Belly) knife that he used for gutting and dressing large game animals, supposedly, he was quite fast and efficient with those knives, something he passed onto his son, my Grand Father, who was also very skilled in processing game!
 
A excellent book on knives in the fur trade is Madison Grant's :
The knife in Homespun America.
Large clear photos and a entertaining , yet informing writing style

Actually any of Grant's books :
The Kentucky Rifle Hunting Pouch
Powder Horns and Their Architecture
The knife in Homespun America


Are all worth searching out and owning.
Andy
 
My mother recently gave me this knife... and I remember it from when I was 8-9 yrs old.


I know it's not in the same vein as the mountain men knives above, and it's German "rostfrei" steel, but it has a genuine antler handle, and it looks cool and "old timey" to an unlearned knob (on the subject matter) like me.... :D


D8A5A5C5-1034-446F-8DD6-C60EE4F6CC72.jpeg 9E51857A-4C27-4785-A800-575FAF544A24.jpeg
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I love the Old Hickory line of knives. They've been around since the 20's and are styled after the old butcher's blades. Plus, they offer some rather impressive blade lengths! These two get regular use in the kitchen. IMG_20200903_075751128.jpg
 

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