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At 100 yards, Winchester has 2,032 ft lbs of energy vs 1200 for the Black Magic. For animals like bears, I much prefer the winchester design for deep penetration.
Out for me, the security is a smooth bore. But nice energy though.
 
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Remington 2-3/4" 1oz slugs out of 20" barrel penetrate over 12-15" (deepest was 18") in a green fir log butt at 15 yards. That's way short of what that slug will do in flesh, grizzle and bone.
Semantics aside, that will kill anything. I don't care if it's pissed off or not.
Preferences, if we're shooting at 0-50 yards, I'm cool with my 12 gauge, but wonder why anyone would be packing a shotgun for a 100 yard shot instead of a rifle? Where i carry my shotgun for protection, I can rarely see half that distance.
But if you're so inclined, go shoot some of that 3" slug stuff. See how well you can make that second shot.

Have a bunch and I like them. Also have a bunch of the 3" Remington Slugger. Those are 3000 ft lbs too. Still want to check out the Black Magic. They difference maybe penetration vs expansion. The Black Magic with their 'patented design' are supposed to go deeper. I don't know how they expand. When I find some I plan on experimenting and find out for myself.

As far 100 yards that is just a comparison number. I said earlier in this thread that these are for a Maverick 88 20' security smooth meant for a max distance of 50 yards.

Regarding 3" inch Magnums I don't have a problem shooting them. The stock is a Scorpion recoil stock and it really works well. It is much better than than the two originals that came with it.. The fore grip isn't on it in the pics, but that sure helps to get back on the threat.
 
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Not a 3.5" slug. Also, with guns shooting loads like this fit and buttstock style are hugely important. I love the basics of @Ridge Walker 's Maverick, but I shot 3.5" slugs out of a Mossberg with a stock like that and it was one of the most unpleasant firearms I've ever shot. Period. And I've shot some pretty serious kickers.

My hunch is that the shot at geese are from a gas gun. That makes a big difference and would certainly cancel part of my "2nd shot" comment.

Gas guns do moderate some. But 3.5 inch Magnums still kick pretty good in them too.

I was interested because one of @Heretic's stated purposes was Brown Bears. That was my interest and purpose too. Something for Brown Bear country. I was interested in finding the best ammo for camp, trail and kill site protection from Grizzlies with what we already have. Our deer and elk rifles aren't the 'go to' for grizz.

Working over a kill in bear country with one, would not give me the same feeling as a tube full of 12 ga 3" magnum slugs. As for getting back on target with 3" magnums, if that target was a Grizz I am pretty sure that recoil would be helping me cycle. :)
 

The Heretic

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Regarding 3" inch Magnums I don't have a problem shooting them. The stock is a Scorpion recoil stock and it really works well. It is much better than than the two originals that came with it.. The fore grip isn't on it in the pics, but that sure helps to get back on the threat.
My remaining 12 ga is a Shockwave with a brace. Three inch magnums without the brace (the Shockwave I gave the neighbor) are not conducive to follow up shots as the fore-end removes itself from my hand with alacrity. With the brace I can do follow up shots but the difference between the 3" and 2.75" feels like it is about double.
 
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My remaining 12 ga is a Shockwave with a brace. Three inch magnums without the brace (the Shockwave I gave the neighbor) are not conducive to follow up shots as the fore-end removes itself from my hand with alacrity. With the brace I can do follow up shots but the difference between the 3" and 2.75" feels like it is about double.

For the house we run 2.5 inch the wife likes them even better. You can even trim old hulls and make short custom, reduced roll your own loads. Haven't started loading for the shoties yet. I hope to soon.

 
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I agree with others saying go for the Brenneke. That winchester ammo is for deer and designed to expand. The typical 1oz slugs are also fairly soft and expand pretty well. That Brenneke will punch deep and give you the best chance of hitting something critical like the hip bone or CNS.
 
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I have bunch of these.

20201112_203628.jpg
 
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The Heretic

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DDuplecks Broadhead:


Looks kewl.

But two things:

1 - For self defense against dangerous animals (like a brown bear), I do not want some manufacturer I have never heard of, that has no (or very little) broad field experience (i.e., lots of people buying and using the product in the way that I intend to use it). It may (and probably does) work very well, but I have no way of knowing that, short of taking it out and using it against dangerous animals, a lot - and even then, the one time I may really need it, I may get the one round, made in someone's garage/basement, that had a contaminated primer or missing a powder load.

2 - Not sure I want an expanding projectile. I want something that will penetrate a heavy built dangerous animal, and a non-expanding 0.8 diameter slug that weighs 500 grains (or more) and stays intact, with a non-expanding flat sharp edged meplat should be plenty lethal if it can reach the vitals, but an expanding slug would probably not penetrate as well. A charging half ton boar grizzly has a lot of bone and muscle to penetrate.
 

Almost 1800 ft/lbs. At 100 yards. :cool:
These are like shooting a rifle in the accuracy dept. , well worth investing in a rifled barrel and a scope. Put a factory Mossberg scoped set up on one of the 500's for when shotguns are required for hunting.

The old standard remington 2.75" lead rifled slugs or the solid coppers will get the job done though. Depends on how close you expect to be using any slug, the short barrel (shockwave) mentioned isn't helping you any on actual power produced though.
 
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These are like shooting a rifle in the accuracy dept. , well worth investing in a rifled barrel and a scope. Put a factory Mossberg scoped set up on one of the 500's for when shotguns are required for hunting.

The old standard remington 2.75" lead rifled slugs or the solid coppers will get the job done though. Depends on how close you expect to be using any slug, the short barrel (shockwave) mentioned isn't helping you any on actual power produced though.

Depends on where the Grizzly starts the charge and how close he is when he starts plowing dust with his nose, or the shottie goes click.
 
DDuplecks Broadhead:

That looks pretty interesting. In fitting with this thread, though, I wonder if they make something similar that doesn't have the expanding petals.
Looks kewl.

But two things:

1 - For self defense against dangerous animals (like a brown bear), I do not want some manufacturer I have never heard of, that has no (or very little) broad field experience (i.e., lots of people buying and using the product in the way that I intend to use it). It may (and probably does) work very well, but I have no way of knowing that, short of taking it out and using it against dangerous animals, a lot - and even then, the one time I may really need it, I may get the one round, made in someone's garage/basement, that had a contaminated primer or missing a powder load.

2 - Not sure I want an expanding projectile. I want something that will penetrate a heavy built dangerous animal, and a non-expanding 0.8 diameter slug that weighs 500 grains (or more) and stays intact, with a non-expanding flat sharp edged meplat should be plenty lethal if it can reach the vitals, but an expanding slug would probably not penetrate as well. A charging half ton boar grizzly has a lot of bone and muscle to penetrate.
I have to Poo-Poo the first part to some degree. Yes, one would want to shoot up a bunch of something new to see if it's worth a crap, but it doesn't need to be a critter to get some idea what that projectile is up to. Plus it would give the opportunity to see if the maker has quality control issues. Talk to my wife about "brand name" ammo being reliable... This one cost her a very nice buck last fall.
10.19.20 dud.jpg


In the second part I find nothing to dispute. 🍻
 

gmerkt

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That looks pretty interesting. In fitting with this thread, though, I wonder if they make something similar that doesn't have the expanding petals.
Yes, they do. It's a steel slug. "Steelhead."


Mind you, it's only a 2-3/4 inch shell which many here seem to think is less than adequate.
 

gmerkt

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The Heretic

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In addition to their commercial products, they have a defense line of goods:


Including an armor piercing shotgun slug.
All fine and dandy, but how many people around the world have used their products in the field. There are a LOT of people producing a number of special loads for guns, but where is their reputation from widespread field use? Names like Federal, Winchester, Brenneke and other big brand names have that wide spread use and reputation. When it comes to defending myself against dangerous animals, I will prefer to have those known brand names in the mag tube rather than someone I have never heard of. YMMV
 
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Pretty cool. Like they said if they fix the defects it will be crazy effective. Only for rifled barrels though. At least I know how to pronounce Brenenke lol.

Here is the Black Magic. Take a look at the gelatin test. It doesn't expand but a devastating wound channel. That part on the back is only hard plastic but didn't fail like the crush.

So far these are ones in a smooth bore for Grizz defense.
 
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