Oregon Mossberg Shockwave question.

[ScatPackLife]

I was wondering about someone adding a pistol grip to a mossberg shockwave. One could add a +3 or +5 magazine extension with the pistol grip to keep the OAL over 26", but would the pistol grip turn it into a pistol grip shotgun? I'm thinking yes, but there might be some loophole I'm not aware of.

SBR'ing a shockwave would be great IMO but I heard the ATF was turning them down saying they were a shotgun because they have 590 engraved on them. What if the 590 was shaved off and shockwave was etched instead? Am I overthinking things?

I also don't know much about Oregano laws pertaining to the Shockwave.

(To the haters: This question is about adding a pistol grip to a shockwave, not about anyone's opinion on the shockwave. Any comments about the shockwave not being a useful tool will be met with Extreme Sarcasm. )

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[Member 53328]

You should add a bump stock to it.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

I love my shockwave, but I believe magazine extensions do not count. Frankly, I added a plus one and shoot mini slugs from mine. It is pretty much a .72 acp in my usage.

 

[ScatPackLife]

You should add a bump stock to it.

Would have to be a semi-auto and would need a SBS tax stamp because of the stock.

But, with a 18.5" barrel, hmm , bumpstock shotgun, he'll ya.

 

[MobileTaylor]

Can you just make it an AOW? Form 1.

 

[ScatPackLife]

Can you just make it an AOW? Form 1.

I know pretty much nothing about AOW laws. But I would say the purpose of the shockwave is to have a short barrel in a configuration that doesn't require paying $200.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Aow is only $5 stamp

 

[ScatPackLife]

Aow is only $5 stamp

Pass. Not register with the ATF is another thing about the shockwave.

 

[User 1234]

Aow is only $5 stamp

$5 stamp to transfer an existing AOW. $200 stamp to make a new AOW from a non-AOW.

 

[The Heretic]

I was wondering about someone adding a pistol grip to a mossberg shockwave. One could add a +3 or +5 magazine extension with the pistol grip to keep the OAL over 26", but would the pistol grip turn it into a pistol grip shotgun? I'm thinking yes, but there might be some loophole I'm not aware of.

Questionable, but maybe? I don't think so though and here is why; the ATF methodology (IIRC) is to measure to the end of the barrel and nothing else at that end? Conversely, you could have a muzzle device silver soldered to the barrel to gain back any inches you lost by affixing a pistol grip.

You could also just get an 18.5" barrel for it and a mag extension - you can then have the barrel cut down a couple inches (but keep the OAL to 26"+) if you want.

Mossberg does sell Shockwaves with 18.5" barrels for Calif compliance.

If you want a legal pistol grip for the Shockwave, get a Knoxx Breachers Grip Gen III (the previous gen might be legal - I measured it, and it was barely 26", but the Gen III there is no question).

SBR'ing a shockwave would be great IMO but I heard the ATF was turning them down saying they were a shotgun because they have 590 engraved on them. What if the 590 was shaved off and shockwave was etched instead? Am I overthinking things?

No. There is no requirement for the Shockwave model to be engraved in that manner. They will go by the serial number. You can SBS the Shockwave, but there is no free tax stamp - it is not a rifle, and putting a stock on it makes it an SBS. Be aware that once it is an SBS, it can't go back to being a "firearm"; unlike an pistol->SBR, once the Shockwave is an SBS, it becomes a shotgun and the Shockwave squeezes thru the legalities of the NFA/GCA by never having been a shotgun.

I also don't know much about Oregano laws pertaining to the Shockwave.

It is currently legal by Oregon law. There is a question about these "firearms" with regards to the new ATF brace ruling - that remains to be seen.

(To the haters: This question is about adding a pistol grip to a shockwave, not about anyone's opinion on the shockwave. Any comments about the shockwave not being a useful tool will be met with Extreme Sarcasm. )

 

[The Heretic]

National - Shockwave legal OAL - include mag extension?

If I put a mag extension on a Mossberg Shockwave, such that it extends past the muzzle of the barrel, does that count towards the OAL with respect to it being a legal 26"??

www.northwestfirearms.com

National - Thoughts on Shockwave/Tac-14/et. al. legality, etc.

Owned a Shockwave for all of a week+ now, haven't shot it yet, but this is about thoughts on legality issues. I originally did not understand how these could be legal, but over the years I came to understand the basic premise of where these fall in the law. At first I didn't see much of a use...

www.northwestfirearms.com

National - Shockwave legal OAL - include mag extension?

If I put a mag extension on a Mossberg Shockwave, such that it extends past the muzzle of the barrel, does that count towards the OAL with respect to it being a legal 26"??

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Artilleryman]

Add an 80% shoulder thing that goes up

 

[ScatPackLife]

Thanks, that very well answers most of my questions. See reply's, and one question at the bottom, below.

Questionable, but maybe? I don't think so though and here is why; the ATF methodology (IIRC) is to measure to the end of the barrel and nothing else at that end.

Okay, that answers my question. The barrel extension doesn't count. Wombat mentioned that also but not why, and that's because they measure from the barrel back, thank you for clarifying. I would either need to lengthen the barrel or use something that keeps the grip long.

If you want a legal pistol grip for the Shockwave, get a Knoxx Breachers Grip Gen III (the previous gen might be legal - I measured it, and it was barely 26", but the Gen III there is no question).

This will work perfect. Thank you for. Not to expensive, has built in recoil management and a sling, and meets the OAL of 26". Just need to decide if it's legal. It still adds a pistol grip which could be potentially for a pistol grip shotgun. And I know pistol grip shotguns are required to have a 18" barrel.

No. There is no requirement for the Shockwave model to be engraved in that manner. They will go by the serial number.

I figured this. I know the engraving didn't matter. I just read somewhere about someone getting denied their SBS stamp because the ATF said it had "590" on it. I'm wondering if someone made a shockwave from a 590 and then sold it to him without his knowledge. I don't recall where I heard that story though, it could have been made up and posted in a forum. Third hand knowledge, not fact checked, so I can't say it really happened. There could have been other factors not disclosed.

You can SBS the Shockwave, but there is no free tax stamp - it is not a rifle, and putting a stock on it makes it an SBS.

SBS is a possibility. I am just weary of the ATF. I have a silencer but the less I am on their radar the better. Hence why people buy the Shockwave and similar "firearms".

And ya, totally dumb that a braced shockwave will become an SBS because of the new pistol brace rule but no free tax stamp for them, only SBR. Future Law suit?

Be aware that once it is an SBS, it can't go back to being a "firearm"; unlike an pistol->SBR, once the Shockwave is an SBS, it becomes a shotgun and the Shockwave squeezes thru the legalities of the NFA/GCA by never having been a shotgun.

That is good information. I wasn't sure about that before.

There is a question about these "firearms" with regards to the new ATF brace ruling - that remains to be seen.

Is this statement in regards to all of the birds grip "firearms" or only the ones with arm braces?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

My guess is someone put in the model name wrong. The ATF is a stickler for such things. I have also had the ATF turn me down for form 1s they never told me why. Both times it said, "see attached page for denial reason" But, there was no attached page.

 

[The Heretic]

This will work perfect. Thank you for. Not to expensive, has built in recoil management and a sling, and meets the OAL of 26". Just need to decide if it's legal. It still adds a pistol grip which could be potentially for a pistol grip shotgun. And I know pistol grip shotguns are required to have a 18" barrel.

The Shockwave is legally a "firearm", not a shotgun. A pistol grip does not make it a shotgun. As long as it never has a stock on it, it will never be a shotgun. If you make it shorter than 26", then it isn't a "firearm" either.

 

[The Heretic]

Is this statement in regards to all of the birds grip "firearms" or only the ones with arm braces?

It is about the braces. Search for "shotgun" and about 46-47 pages into the ruling you will find a long paragraph about braces and "firearms" (which they are now starting to call "pistol grip shotguns" which is worrying in and of itself). Sorry - I am not going to quote it here as I would have to go look it up again and copy/paste it as I have done already half a dozen times elsewhere.

There was never an issue about changing the raptor grip to a different style, it is only about the OAL and shoulder stocks, but now the wording of the ruling raises questions about future rulings on Shockwave style "firearms".

 

[ScatPackLife]

Thanks Heretic. I keep forgetting it's classified as a firearm.

The Dems and the media can call them what ever they want, As long as the ATF doesn't make a new rule making these firearms a shotgun then the Blackhawk Breachers grip looks like a good option.

I know a lot of this has been talked about over and over and I plan to keep doing research, but I was having a hard time finding direct answers. And I know you're not a lawyer (I think) but everything you said seems to hold water.

I think the real answer is to push our representatives to pass pro-gun laws at the state and federal level, because apparently "shall not infringe" is to complicated for them to understand.

 

[The Heretic]

It is about the braces. Search for "shotgun" and about 46-47 pages into the ruling you will find a long paragraph about braces and "firearms" (which they are now starting to call "pistol grip shotguns" which is worrying in and of itself). Sorry - I am not going to quote it here as I would have to go look it up again and copy/paste it as I have done already half a dozen times elsewhere.

There was never an issue about changing the raptor grip to a different style, it is only about the OAL and shoulder stocks, but now the wording of the ruling raises questions about future rulings on Shockwave style "firearms".

https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/11leqnc