Mossberg 590 Shockwave 14 inch no stamp?

[Quartermaster]

Yes. Short barrel shotgun (sbs)

Serbu super shorty are AOW (still NFA), not SBS. For instance, you can NOT put a shoulder stock on one without doing a form 1 to reclassify it as an SBS. If it was already an SBS it could go back and forth from stock to pistol grip all day long with no problem.

Tac-14 holds 4+1.

 

[madmax]

No

If it came from the factory with out a but stock. You can do a few things. In this case but a shorter barrel on it. As long as the OAL in 26" or greater, barrel length the out. Look at the "back ace"

Say you put a 8" barrel and sig arm brace as long as it 26" or greater in OAL it's non nfa

The black ace, shock wave and tac-14 can not be classified. Not pistol, not shotgun but overy 26". They do not have a classification. With that, they do not fall under NFA. Hence why they are legal to own


Stop over thinking things

 

[madmax]

Serbu super shorty are AOW (still NFA), not SBS. For instance, you can NOT put a shoulder stock on one without doing a form 1 to reclassify it as an SBS. If it was already an SBS it could go back and forth from stock to pistol grip all day long with no problem.

Kinda.

First a serbu ss will never be on a form 1. Always a form 4. It's manufacturered by a sot.
Second it can be regester as a aow or sbs. It's just a check box and 195 diffetence. But if it is a sbs on form 4 it will always be a sbs on a for 4. It can never go back on paper

 

[FireArm]

I had a black aces DT, fun but not my thing. It fed like crap, looks like a saiga mag but is a modified saiga mag not even close to standard, different enough a standard saiga mag cant be coverted to work. Lame. But had to buy it to try it. The shorty barrel on the DT was cool, NW armory acted like it was a NFA item and started to call the ATF when I brought it in to tranfer. Took then about 15mins to find it on the ATF WEBSITE under non-nfa item listing.

Much rather have a Mossberg 590 Shockwave ( which I do) and a remington tac14, especially since the DT cost more then both the shockwave and tac14 combined.

 

[Quartermaster]

Kinda.

First a serbu ss will never be on a form 1. Always a form 4. It's manufacturered by a sot.
Second it can be regester as a aow or sbs. It's just a check box and 195 diffetence. But if it is a sbs on form 4 it will always be a sbs on a for 4. It can never go back on paper

Do you have a source that shows Serbu offers the super shorty as either AOW or SBS? Because they are only ever transferred as AOWs from them. You don't have the choice as a buyer to pick which one it is. The manufacturer does.
It 100% CAN be on a form 1, as I stated before. If you take an AOW, and want to "build" and SBS out of it, it WILL be on a form 1. Period. Dot.

 

[madmax]

But your not build a serbu. Hence why it has to be on a form 4.

If it's a aow already, and you transfer it and pay the 200 vs the 5. It's a sbs form 4 transfer. It's just a differnt box you are checking. You are over thinking it and never actually done it

 

[308]

Say you put a 8" barrel and sig arm brace as long as it 26" or greater in OAL it's non nfa

Why is that different than building an AK or AR pistol? My AK has a 7" bbl with a Sig brace. It has always been a pistol from the time I built it, and is not 26" OAL

It seems the only thing making the Serbu an NFA item is it was once a full sized shotgun and has a forward grip. The forward grip changes a pistol from a pistol to an AOW from what I understand.

So it seems to me if the Serbu started off the assembly line in it's current form without the forward grip, it would be no different than the Shockwave

 

[etrain16]

Why is that different than building an AK or AR pistol? My AK has a 7" bbl with a Sig brace. It has always been a pistol from the time I built it, and is not 26" OAL

I think the answer can be found in the ATF's definition of what is or isn't an AOW:

National Firearms Act Definitions
Any Other Weapon
26 U.S.C. § 5845(E)

For the purposes of the National Firearms Act, the term "Any Other Weapon" means:

• Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive;
• A pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell;
• Weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading; and
• Any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.

Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

Source: Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms - National Firearms Act Definitions - Any Other Weapon | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

It's different because your AR/AK pistols are pistols and so are under a different classification as noted above.

 

[308]

Then the Serbu should have a classification same as the Shockwave. The only difference I see is a slightly shorter bbl, different shaped grip, and a forward grip.

 

[Quartermaster]

But your not build a serbu. Hence why it has to be on a form 4.

If it's a aow already, and you transfer it and pay the 200 vs the 5. It's a sbs form 4 transfer. It's just a differnt box you are checking. You are over thinking it and never actually done it

You CAN form 1 an EXISTING firearm to change its NFA classification. You CAN'T tell Mark Serbu "Cheers mate, I think I'll go with a short barreled shotgun instead of the AOW you filed it as."

I have half a dozen NFA items in my trust, and HAVE done form 1 firearms to make short barreled versions.

I'm done dealing with immaturity and your clear inexperience with NFA. You didn't understand my original statement, and you sure as hell Don't understand the explanation. I'm sorry I don't have the right colors of crayon to draw you a picture.

Here's a few of MY form 1 guns to show I DO know what I'm talking about.

End of discussion.

 

[308]

Thank you OQ...that 'as long as it's =\> 26" thing is not correct. Any 'shotgun' with a bbl <18" is NFA unless it is whatever in the heck they are calling the shockwave...the Serbu must have started out as a full sized shotgun and going backwards must be why it's NFA now....that and the pistol grip

 

[revjen45]

Just my opinion, but such guns are mainly range toys. No, I don't think that practical uselessness or my opinion is a good reason to ban something. I can't stand beets or grapefruit in any form, but I don't think they should be banned (now Vienna Sausages are a different story ). If I need a tactical fowling piece a full stocked extended mag 500, 590, or 870 would be my choice.

 

[etrain16]

Thank you OQ...that 'as long as it's =\> 26" thing is not correct. Any 'shotgun' with a bbl <18" is NFA unless it is whatever in the heck they are calling the shockwave...the Serbu must have started out as a full sized shotgun and going backwards must be why it's NFA now....that and the pistol grip

Regarding what they start with, this is right from Serbu's website:

The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 (at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun that came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available.

 

[madmax]

You CAN form 1 an EXISTING firearm to change its NFA classification. You CAN'T tell Mark Serbu "Cheers mate, I think I'll go with a short barreled shotgun instead of the AOW you filed it as."

I have half a dozen NFA items in my trust, and HAVE done form 1 firearms to make short barreled versions.

I'm done dealing with immaturity and your clear inexperience with NFA. You didn't understand my original statement, and you sure as hell Don't understand the explanation. I'm sorry I don't have the right colors of crayon to draw you a picture.

Here's a few of MY form 1 guns to show I DO know what I'm talking about.

End of discussion.

View attachment 381210 View attachment 381211 View attachment 381212

No one cares about your nfa starter kit. But I'm down to compare penis

 

[FireArm]

Heres my dick pics... all non-nfa, cause screw the feds.

 

[Gonzales]

Then the Serbu should have a classification same as the Shockwave. The only difference I see is a slightly shorter bbl, different shaped grip, and a forward grip.

Not so. The real issue is what the ATF considers to be consealable. They decided that anything under 26" is considered consealable, and everything over as not*

In addition, the Mossberg Shockwave, Serbu, and the TAC are not considered Shotguns by the ATF. They do not pass their Shotgun test.

So they are classified as a firearm. Then they apply other tests, to see if they fall under another classification.

Consealable (<26") or Consealed & Firearm = AOW
Not consealable, NOT Consealed & firearm = firearm.

So my Mossberg Shockwave (Firearm / Not Shotgun), can become an unregistered / illegal AOW, if I put it under my coat. But, until then it's just a Firearm that is not intended to be fired from the shoulder. It just so happens that it shoots 12ga shells. If I put a shoulder stock on it, then it passes the ATFs test for a SBS.

Now for the Serbu.
Firearm / Not Shotgun ( ATF shoulder stock test)
Very consealable (<26") (ATF consealable or consealed test)
So it passes the AOW test. That pesky vertical grip is also an issue.

-MG

 

[etrain16]

So my Mossberg Shockwave (Firearm / Not Shotgun), can become an unregistered / illegal AOW, if I put it under my coat. But, until then it's just a Firearm that is not intended to be fired from the shoulder. It just so happens that it shoots 12ga shells. If I put a shoulder stock on it, then it passes the ATFs test for a SBS.

To complicate matters further, the State of Oregon has decided to classify the Mossberg Shockwave (as well as the Remington Tac-14) as a "pistol pump" and to transfer it as such. That opens the door to allowing it to be concealed, legally, in Oregon....or does it?

 

[Camelfilter]

Hmm...so if I have one of those Mossberg Shockwaves locked down in my truck, as a truck gun. Covered up by a cabinet, is it considered concealed? Would I then be risking putting myself into a whole big ole pile of legal poo?

 

[Gonzales]

I doubt it's being reported to the Feds that way. They just needed to use a classification in their system that was mostly unused, so that they can apply additional restrictions (greater than 21 & no out of state purchases), and also to create a registry of who has them for future forced registration / confiscation.

Now if you could have someone button rifle the barrel? Would that make it a pistol? Those can be legally consealed in Oregon.

 

[Gonzales]

Hmm...so if I have one of those Mossberg Shockwaves locked down in my truck, as a truck gun. Covered up by a cabinet, is it considered concealed? Would I then be risking putting myself into a whole big ole pile of legal poo?

YES, don't conseal it! Very bad.....

Nothing like an illegal / unregistered AOW to put an end to your gun hobby.
Remember folks, these firearms are right on the line between legal and illegal, without a tax stamp.