Mossberg 500 vs Remington 870?

[Sun195]

I've owned both, and prefer the 870 - simply because it feels better to me (fit wise). I actually like the controls on the 500 better, but it doesn't fit me as well.

 

[Crispy]

If you can shoot a few different models do it, it comes down to personal preference. I have owned both, and I have a 500 due to familiarity and what I consider user friendliness. I got mine with a insight forend from the factory, Very handy and well priced!

 

[Darkker]

As to your question of using them in bad weather:
2 years ago now, the Avery folks came up with their film crew to goose hunt with me and a buddy. We(Me & buddy) had 870's, the "professional" hunters had some very beautiful auto's. It was perfect drinking weather, but very miserable to be in. Freezing rain, then snow, then back again. The auto's all froze up, but the 870's never had a stoppage.
So does that mean anything? you decide.

 

[coop44]

I would rank the 870 first followed by the winchester model 12, then the ithica model 37 (older model). The mossberg isn't even a contender. Why the models 12 and 37 you ask? Simple, they have no disconnectors, fire your first shot and hold the trigger back, every subsequent shell will fire the instant the bolt goes into batttery.

Why the 870? Never had a safety fall off in the field. All steel construction (weight is your friend). Never ever had one fail me.

Weight is a BS issue, not one of us isn't carrying around more than a few extra pounds.

Reloading and capacity aren't an issue, if you have to reload, in the real world, you are already dead or have missed your game.

I don't recall the last time I used a safety on a shotgun, always carry with an empty chamber, haven't you guys taken hunter safety?

 

[Boats]

I would rank the 870 first followed by the winchester model 12, then the ithica model 37 (older model). The mossberg isn't even a contender. Why the models 12 and 37 you ask? Simple, they have no disconnectors, fire your first shot and hold the trigger back, every subsequent shell will fire the instant the bolt goes into batttery.

Why the 870? Never had a safety fall off in the field. All steel construction (weight is your friend). Never ever had one fail me.

Weight is a BS issue, not one of us isn't carrying around more than a few extra pounds.

Reloading and capacity aren't an issue, if you have to reload, in the real world, you are already dead or have missed your game.

I don't recall the last time I used a safety on a shotgun, always carry with an empty chamber, haven't you guys taken hunter safety?

LOL. Who ever said shotguns were only about wing shooting?

I fully agree that the 870 is a fine bird gun, but that's all it really is too, a bird gun, even when made to look like a combat shotgun.

If self-defense is in the equation at all, the Mossberg is a better combat shotgun because it doesn't have the handicaps to rapid handling that the 870 does.

If you have to clear your own house, you'd be wise to have a round chambered and probably want a safety that is easy to locate and to flick off and on. If you want to switch from bucks to slugs or vice versa, you probably want that to be easier, not harder. If you want to transition from shoulder to shoulder or hold the shotgun one handed to open a door, then weight is your enemy.

 

[coosbaycreep]

I like mossbergs way more than remingtons, especially the newer remingtons.

Tang safety is way more convenient to me, they weigh less, the slide release is easier to manipulate on mossbergs than it is on a 870, and they're easier to load too. The only thing I don't like about mossbergs is the forend rattle (not an issue with newer mossbergs), and you can't add a mag extension to them (not an issue with the 590, which IMHO, is the best pump shotgun for HD).

I don't know why anyone would want a pump shotgun with no disconnector so they can hold the trigger down while pumping when there's plenty of reliable semi-autos being made now either.

 

[coop44]

LOL. Who ever said shotguns were only about wing shooting?

I fully agree that the 870 is a fine bird gun, but that's all it really is too, a bird gun, even when made to look like a combat shotgun.

If self-defense is in the equation at all, the Mossberg is a better combat shotgun because it doesn't have the handicaps to rapid handling that the 870 does.

If you have to clear your own house, you'd be wise to have a round chambered and probably want a safety that is easy to locate and to flick off and on. If you want to switch from bucks to slugs or vice versa, you probably want that to be easier, not harder. If you want to transition from shoulder to shoulder or hold the shotgun one handed to open a door, then weight is your enemy.

They ALL started out as hunting guns,
If you are switching ammo in the middle of a situation you are hunting some one, not using in self defence,
If weight is your enemy lose 20 pounds and stop worrying about your gun weight. If you still are, lose that 5 pounds of crap and ammo you have encumbered your shotgun with with.

I am much more likely to be bird hunting with my shotgun than living some video game fantasy.

 

[Boats]

They ALL started out as hunting guns,
If you are switching ammo in the middle of a situation you are hunting some one, not using in self defence,
If weight is your enemy lose 20 pounds and stop worrying about your gun weight. If you still are, lose that 5 pounds of crap and ammo you have encumbered your shotgun with with.

I am much more likely to be bird hunting with my shotgun than living some video game fantasy.

So many presumptions, so little time. The combat shotgun has been around in one form or other for centuries now. With the advent of the pump action, one or more models have been in continuous service with every branch of the Armed Services.

Yes, they all started out as hunting guns, but some, the Winchester M1897 and M1912, the Ithaca M1937 and later the Mossberg 500 and then 590A1, were better adapted to the "other" role on the front lines than is the old Wingmaster, M870 which was always primarily used for guard duty and not front line action because of the same handling liabilities I mentioned earlier. I concede that the 870 was always popular for police use due to its ability to handle neglect, but it was not chosen because it was the best to actually fight with.

In any event, if I am switching out ammo, it could be because I have encountered someone wearing body armor, or maybe some nut job is trying to run me over in a car, or maybe some bear is interested in my pheasant kill. Or maybe I am just a cop for a small department that can't afford a dedicated beanbag shotgun. If you can't switch your ammo on your pump gun on the fly you're not realizing its full potential as a versatile weapon.

Weight in an of itself is not my enemy, but in room clearance, which apart from your insinuations about video games, I did hundreds of times on the job for Uncle Sam, weight for weight's sake in your shotgun is not your friend. Even if the lighter Mossberg is festooned with a light in the forearm and a sidesaddle screwed on, with red dot on top, (I primarily run a minimalist rig with a four round speed feed stock, a tritium front "bead style" sight and just a two point tac sling, for the record), at least that "extra" weight is served towards a purpose more practical than to purr on about having a steel receiver. Besides none of that tactical stuff put together weighs anywhere near "five pounds."

My pump action shotguns only serve in a self defense role, the same one I was trained to perform on behalf of the Navy. None of them are set up as fantasy rigs and neither do Remingtons make the cut.

I don't bird hunt anymore but if I did I'll take an O/U and truly be sporting about it. No one really needs a pump gun to shoot birds with unless they can't cut it with just two rounds on tap, do they?

 

[coop44]

ah, I see, another "combat expert"

 

[Boats]

No, not an expert, merely a student. But also not a clueless and overly opinionated Fudd who is going to ignore what a pump shotgun is really capable just because he throws some noise at birds once in awhile with a shotgun only really good for that very limited purpose because of its awful fire controls and reloading characteristics.

 

[Spitpatch]

I wuz gonna say "operator".

I'd put the Model 97 just above a Model 12, (nothing like bein' Chuck Connors with OOBuck!) then the 870 (for anything modern), and anything else can go to pointy-tail-land.

Me an' coop'd have to have another thread or two to debate our chosen hierarchy.

And, now (Post Script), I engaged in a little-known strategy for these debates, wherein a contributor might avail himself of referring back to the OP, and the OP's subsequent posts.

Although the OP was not specific, it seemed he was leaning toward a hunting gun. In that case (if he might clarify), our debates about defensive (or offensive) shotguns are pretty much all wet (mine included).

If that is his direction, and the question is "870 or 500", then (in my opinion) there is no question. Go with the 50-year winner, dominating field pump shotgun application from day one to today. No other pump gun can touch it.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Boats wins this one.. anyone who has studied real shotgun self defense knows you may need alternate ammo at some point, as most trainers will so instruct

 

[Boats]

I'd put the Model 97 just above a Model 12, (nothing like bein' Chuck Connors with OOBuck!) then the 870 (for anything modern), and anything else can go to pointy-tail-land.

The M1897 is a pump with an exposed hammer. The M1912 is a pump with an internal hammer. The 1887 & 1901 are the lever action Winchester shotguns, so if you can go all Chuck Conners with a pump gun, you can hang out with Chuck Norris.

 

[ORHunter79]

To clarify: I was trying to learn which shotgun would be more reliable in adverse weather conditions, be it hunting or protecting a camp ground. I guess to put it in another way, which is the best all around shotgun.

Lots of good info here. Thanks.

 

[Boats]

To clarify: I was trying to learn which shotgun would be more reliable in adverse weather conditions, be it hunting or protecting a camp ground. I guess to put it in another way, which is the best all around shotgun.

Lots of good info here. Thanks.

You're still going to get the Ford/Chevy debate. Both companies offer a nickeled "marine" finished version, though I'd say with its ease of disassembly and aluminum receiver, the shiny Mossberg is a belt and suspenders approach and the finish more necessary for the all steel 870.

It remains my opinion that especially with gloves on, the Remington's little safety bolt, misplaced action release, and "closed" lifter over the reloading port are handling liabilities relative to the Mossberg.

Out of all of the major domestic 12 gauge pump shotguns models intorduced since 1900, the last one I'd want is the 870, since mine do fill a primary home defense role.

1) Mossberg 500/590A1
2) Pre 1970 Ithaca M1937
3) Any Winchester pump gun
4) Remington Model 31
5) Remington model 870

 

[Spitpatch]

The M1897 is a pump with an exposed hammer. The M1912 is a pump with an internal hammer. The 1887 & 1901 are the lever action Winchester shotguns, so if you can go all Chuck Conners with a pump gun, you can hang out with Chuck Norris.

The reference was in regard to the absence of a disconnector, allowing the gun to fire upon close to battery with the trigger already depressed. I am confident the distinction offered between the pump, hammer and lever shotguns was considered to be of some proud value by its contributor, regardless of its being much less so to those already in posession of the fine gem.

And, we do now see the primary purpose being that of hunting (with a secondary goal toward the remote chance one may defend an outdoor location). Once again, the defensive and offensive arguments (mine included) fade in importance, and the 870's prominence and performance in the field is incomparable.

 

[Boats]

The reference was in regard to the absence of a disconnector, allowing the gun to fire upon close to battery with the trigger already depressed. I am confident the distinction offered between the pump, hammer and lever shotguns was considered to be of some proud value by its contributor, regardless of its being much less so to those already in posession of the fine gem.

And, we do now see the primary purpose being that of hunting (with a secondary goal toward the remote chance one may defend an outdoor location). Once again, the defensive and offensive arguments (mine included) fade in importance, and the 870's prominence and performance in the field is incomparable.

Your reference is flat out idiotic then, considering Chuck Connor's famous rifle was a lever action with a screw embedded in the lever that pulled the trigger upon closing, no disconnector needed or present. Checkmate is the fact that the vast majority of M1912 Winchesters ever made are also capable of so called "slam-firing" just like the 1897.

Could be you also don't understand the conjunction "or" and also fail to grasp the meaning of the phrase "best all around," as the OP's only declared criteria is "to learn which shotgun would be more reliable in adverse weather conditions," for both of his stated purposes.

My position on adverse conditions is that both shotguns are going to be totally reliable in any weather that can be thrown at them so long as the shooter doesn't screw things up short stroking. As to the field/defense criteria? The shortcomings of the 870 as a defense gun are not outweighed by its slight advantage as a bird gun.

And if the OP were to buy the Mossberg 500 combo package that has an easily swappable 18.5" barrel for defense and a vented rib 28" barrel for better swing, any one Remington 870 is going to have no advantage at all.

 

[coop44]

"Excuse me while I swap this barrel"? . Seriously there are a lot of barrels out there for the 870.

from a durability standpoint I would take the 870 (or, for that matter, nearly any all steel shotgun). The mossbergs alloy reciever surfaces are only as hard as the anodizing, once worn through the aluminum wears. The remingtons hardness is in the quality of the steel, it goes all the way through. Another major contention I have with the mossberg is the manner by which the trigger plate is retained in the reciever, with interlocking notches and one pin. The remington has 2 and no issue whether the triggerplate is metal or plastic. The majority of the mossberg trigger plates are plastic and I have seen a number of them (plastic) rendered useless by unskilled operators forcing them into or out of position. How about when the safety button comes loose and the internal parts fall into the reciever locking it up rendering the gun useless. This cannot happen in the 870 as all the safety parts are inside the trigger plate, I have never seen or heard of an 870 safety falling apart or malfunctioning in any manner. Finally, the action bars on the mossberg are substantially smaller than the 870, more likely to bend, again rendering the gun useless.

As far as controls, it is a matter of familiarity and practice, as I am perfectly comfortable with th 870.

Wait for a bit I'll probably think of a few more reasons I would not trust my hunting trip or my life to a mossberg.

BTW "slamfire" is descriptive of a malfunction causing a weapon to discharge in a manner it was not designed to. When you hold the trigger down on a gun without a disconnector it simply fires.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I prefer the 500 over the 870.
I had a few of each until about a year ago, now I just have my two 500's.
I had too many feeding and extraction issues with both of my 870's.
Eventually they turned into loaner guns when I took friends shooting. Now, they're just someone elses problem.

I have completely and utterly abused my 500's and they still keep ticking. It's almost to the point of a running joke.
Both have been used as the obligatory walking stick and occasional hammer. They have been tied up and thrown into rivers and ponds and left there for days. One of them was dragged behind a quad for awhile. Fallen out of the back of a pickup, dropped from trees, etc etc... the things just keep going.

All shotguns are fun, but I only trust mossberg for reliability.

 

[coop44]

I prefer the 500 over the 870.
I had a few of each until about a year ago, now I just have my two 500's.
I had too many feeding and extraction issues with both of my 870's.
Eventually they turned into loaner guns when I took friends shooting. Now, they're just someone elses problem.

I have completely and utterly abused my 500's and they still keep ticking. It's almost to the point of a running joke.
Both have been used as the obligatory walking stick and occasional hammer. They have been tied up and thrown into rivers and ponds and left there for days. One of them was dragged behind a quad for awhile. Fallen out of the back of a pickup, dropped from trees, etc etc... the things just keep going.

All shotguns are fun, but I only trust mossberg for reliability.

So they keep running in spite of you.
Let me make a note: Don't buy guns from this guy, he does not know how to maintain or respect firearms.