Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

More on Fast and Furious

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by A.I.P., Nov 7, 2011.

  1. A.I.P.

    A.I.P. UpperUS Active Member

    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    159
    “The FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) is very proud of the strong and positive working relationship that we have had with Eric Holder, not just for the two years in which he has served as the nation’s ‘top cop,’ but through his long career of public service.” In other words, the FOP’s pleased as punch that the Attorney General’s mob sent an extra $4b to the law enforcement community through the Stimulus Bill. FOP National President Chuck Canterbury [above, right] quid pro quo-ed the AG in a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee ahead of their hearing on ATF Operation Fast and Furious. The whole thing leaves me feeling decidely nauseous . . .

    U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was a federal law enforcement officer. A young Marine murdered by drug thugs wielding weapons enabled by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). A federal agency under the aegis of Attorney General Eric Holder. Who knew about ATF Operation Fast and Furious, the program that intentionally armed Mexican drug cartel members with American gun store guns. One of which a Mexican “rip crew” used to kill Brian Terry.
    The FOP is supporting the politician whose policies made him a co-conspirator to the murder of a law enforcement officer. Not to mention Holder’s role in the murder of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, also slain by bullets fired from Fast and Furious weapons.
    The FOP is not even a bit player in this tragedy; they’re just another in a long line of knee-jerk tax tit suckers. The main characters in the Gunwalker scandal take willful ignorance, deliberate misinterpretation and outright obstruction to a level that turns moral queasiness into outright revulsion. To wit: Lanny Breuer, the head of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division.
    In a letter to thehill.com, the Chief Investigative Counsel for Senator Chuck Grassley defended his boss’s inquiry into Operation Fast and Furious. In doing so, he put Breuer’s recent testimony on the subject into its proper perspective.
    Mr. Breuer admitted to knowing about the gunwalking in Wide Receiver since April 2010. He is also the first Justice Department official to admit publicly that the initial letter to Senator Grassley denying the whistleblower allegations contained a false statement. Worse yet, Mr. Breuer knew it was false and kept silent all year as this controversy has grown. However, he could not remember whether he had reviewed the letter before it was sent to Congress.
    Documents recently released by the Department show that Mr. Holder’s deputy took detailed notes on an extensive briefing about Fast and Furious as early as March 2010. He also received briefing papers in the immediate aftermath of Agent Terry’s murder.
    It’s clear that senior officials directly below the Attorney General received detailed information in connection with their responsibilities to oversee the case. In light of this evidence, it’s perfectly reasonable to ask for clarification about exactly who knew what and when.
    Reason has very little to do with this scandal. Nor, as of yet, facts. How was the program run; how did the various U.S. agencies involved interact to protect the illegal flow; which cartels got the guns, where are the guns now? No se.
    Here’s another one: how did F&F fit into the Obama administration’s overall policy towards Mexico and Mexican drug cartels, including the Phoenix U.S. Attorney’s release of a known grenade maker. And firearms smuggling to Honduras (Operation Castaway). And the sale of fully automatic firearms and grenades to the Mexican police and military.
    Sorry to harp on about it, but the main source of Mexican drug cartel weaponry has not been, is not now, and will not be U.S. gun store guns (even if Congress heeds Breuer’s despicable call for more draconian U.S. gun control laws to stem an arms flow of his own creation). The Mexican bad guys got/get the vast majority of their vast arsenal from officially sanctioned U.S. sales to the Mexican and Latin American military and law enforcement agencies.
    This is the fact that needs to see the light of day. Otherwise, the administration officials behind Operation Fast and Furious will be able to paint themselves as well-meaning boobs. Criminally negligent, perhaps, but not criminal co-conspirators.
    We had to do something about smuggled guns! And stop messing around with that investigation thing because something still must be done! Here’s Dianne Feinstein [via dailycaller.com]:
    “My concern, Mr. Chairman, is there’s been a lot said about Fast and Furious, and perhaps mistakes were made, but I think this hunt for blame doesn’t really speak about the problem,” Feinstein said during the Tuesday hearing. “And the problem is, anybody can walk in and buy anything, .50-caliber weapons, sniper weapons, buy them in large amounts, and send them down to Mexico. So, the question really becomes, what do we do about this?”
    I’m thinking that we should enforce existing laws against straw purchasing and gun smuggling rather than, say, allowing the ATF to encourage indeed enable straw purchasing and gun smuggling. Just a thought.
    But not a popular one amongst the administration’s supporters and sycophants sucking-up to the ATF and their jefes. Check this party political propaganda from Utah attorney general Mark Shurtleff and former Arizona attorney general Terry Goddard at sltrib.com [flagged by the Sipsey Street Irregulars]:
    Dedicated ATF agents are soldiering on in the face of hostile fire. We should stop disparaging these men and women on the front lines during this time of stress and scrutiny. Our nation’s commitment to help Mexico in the fight against the cartels is more critical today than ever. Division, doubt and brinksmanship only discourage our Mexican allies and embolden our mutual enemies.
    It would be tragic if the furor over Fast and Furious causes our country to abandon Mexico to the cartels. The cartels are our enemy, not the ATF or Department of Justice. We need to provide the men and women fighting this critical battle with the tools they need.
    How about they start with the U.S. Constitution (which they are sworn to uphold) and work their way through the laws against smuggling guns into a foreign country? How about we look at all the ways we’ve helped the narco-terrorists take control of Mexico and figure out genuine solutions to the problem, like sealing the border and legalizing drugs?
     
  2. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    737
    Likes Received:
    100
    Or how about we seal our f'n borders and impeach everyone that heard about F & F, disolve the Fed and ATF, restructure the justice dept, and then worry about another country?
     
    Working 4 U, jimwsea, Rascals and 9 others like this.
  3. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Grassley’s opening statement: Justice Department lied

    Senator Charles Grassley’s opening statement during Tuesday morning’s hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee with Attorney General Eric Holder over Operation Fast and Furious was a blistering criticism of a Justice Department that lied about the operation, and knew it was lying.


    Grassley
     
  4. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
  5. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    930
    Feinstein & Schumer.

    Bleh!
     
  6. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Well, don't leave Holder out...or any of his underlings, for that matter!

    The Terry Family has issued a statement, at the end of this column, and Issa is now on the warpath over false statements made by a DoJ official:

    Issa wants answers from DoJ official; Terry family statement

    Congressman Darrell Issa came out swinging today with a letter to Assistant Attorney General Ronald Weich, asking him for “documents and other information related to a false statement” Weich made in a Feb. 4 letter to Sen. Charles Grassley in which Weich insisted that no guns had been knowingly “walked” by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

    Issa wants answers from DoJ official; Terry family statement - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
     
  7. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    1,630
    A quote from that article.

    One week ago, Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer is on record saying, "the tragic truth is that if those criminals who killed Agent Terry had not gotten the guns from this one source, they would have gotten the gun from another source."

    YES, he is admitting what we have said all along, Don't blame the border gun dealers or ask for more gun control, the bad guys will still find a way to get their guns.
     
  8. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,031
    Likes Received:
    1,718
    I blame the ATF for not doing their job.

    When I was an MP, I was told that if I ever pulled someone over for a headlight out and didn't write them a ticket for it then I was liable for any wrecks that the vehicle was involved in. These guys are like MPs that let drunk drivers roll around to try to find the next bar they are headed to...just to find out that they are headed off base (outside their jurisdiction). But instead of calling the local police and letting them know about the drunk drivers rolling around now in their jurisdiction, the MPs go to their commander to try justify having more MPs on the road due to the amount of drunk drivers. Heck, the bar tenders are even calling the MPs and letting them know that their are underage people trying to buy beer at his bar- but the MP commander (trying to get authorization for more MPs) is telling the bars to serve the minors, stating that the MPs will stop them from actually driving.

    Intricate little web we have here...Holder wants more gun laws and needs dirt on gun shops. ATF wants more funding to crack down on illegal activities so they let guns "walk" to let the problem seam worse than it actually is. But just like enough drunks on the road, enough guns in the hands of cartels got someone killed. But not just anyone, a hero. Brian Terry. One of their own. Sad that if ATF didn't have whistle-blowers within their organization, none of this would have come to light.

    Corruption at its worst.
     
  9. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,089
    Likes Received:
    1,310
    And probably goes right to the top!! Now "we" need to prove it before the next election.
     
  10. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
  11. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    It was a simple question about ‘justice’

    PUYALLUP, WA — At the monthly Washington Arms Collectors’ gun show here, the question most commonly asked of this column is about Operation Fast and Furious, and when someone is going to be held accountable.

    It was a simple question about
     
  12. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    318
    I retired from the Navy 17 years ago, and for anyone who has been paying attention, the Navy so far this year has fired over twenty Commanding Officers for various offenses, but the bottom line is a "Loss of Confidence" in said CO's ability to command. Here we see our so called "Top Cop" who has clearly displayed an inability to lead, manage or take personal responsibility for the things going on in his department. It is clearly denial and a blatant attempt to throw everyone under the bus but himself. As far as I am concerned, this was an example of an international criminal incident that is far more hienous than anything the aforementioned Navy CO's commited. The Mexican government and our own agents in Mexico were completely unaware of Fast & Furious, so just how, pray tell, was the BATFE and Justice supposed to track these weapons that were allowed to walk? Obviously it was hoped that they would be recovered at crime scenes and then paraded out as "See, we told you most of the guns in this drug war were from the US!". The only thing they did not plan on was some honest BATFE agents and some participating gun dealers that smelled a rat, and they were not afraid to blow the whistle on these guys. Grassley and Issa need to keep at this like mean dogs. Holder and everyone else involved in this scheme needs to be relieved for "Loss of Confidence", if not jailed for criminal conspiracy. The latter would be preferable.
     
  13. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    930
    whiskeybill, I'll drink to that!
     
  14. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
  15. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Grassley follow-up rips Holder’s data on Mexican crime gun traces

    Monday’s blistering verbal broadside at Attorney General Eric Holder from Senator Charles Grassley was followed up Tuesday morning when the Iowa Republican set the record straight on recovered crime guns in Mexico…

    Grassley follow-up rips Holder
     
  16. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,585
    Likes Received:
    930
    And there it is, the big turd right out in the open. It's enough to make you want to puke. Hey gun loving Obama voters, any regrets? Probably plan on voting for him again, 'eh? Pathetic!
     
  17. whiskeybill

    whiskeybill Battle Ground, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    318
    Remember Dan Cooper of Cooper Firearms, and Jim Zumbo?? Those fellas screwed the pooch!
     
  18. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    2,386
    Grassley going for Eric Holder’s jugular

    Republican Senator Charles Grassley is closing in on Attorney General Eric Holder in earnest, dissecting his testimony last week before the Senate Judiciary Committee…

    Grassley going for Eric Holder
     
  19. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Just a nit, when I was in we could buy all the booze we could drink at 17 (on base). If you're old enough to be handed a rifle and told to die for your country, you're old enough to buy a GD beer! DD is another issue I agree.
     
    Buddhalux and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    I agree, it would be better it we held our political masters to the same standards as we hold our naval commanders.

    Do I think that will ever happen or be in any way feasible? NO.