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I've recently decided to put a low-powered scope on one of my ARs. I have a BCM "recce rifle" with a 16 inch barrel and a 13 inch free floating handguard. I happened to get a good deal on an American Defense mount, that happens to have a 30mm. So, I've been researching options and think this crap is needlessly complex. All of these big tubes, increased cost of manufacturing due to front focal plane reticles, and BDCs that remind me of crop circles on Unsolved Mysteries.

First of all, all of this 30mm (and even bigger!) crap is out of hand. Your eye can only take so much light. Many 30mm scopes still use the same guts as a 1 inch scope. I've never had a decent one-inch scope go tango-uniform for any reason that wouldn't have occurred with a bigger tube. If you need the travel because you are a 600+ yard shooter, go for it. But if you're rocking a 1-6x, probably not needing that unless your gun or mount is bent somewhere. Most of these scopes have capped adjustments, so why would anyone need all that adjustment if they aren't spinning turrets and shooting beyond 600 yards? What about those BDC reticles?

Ah, BDC reticles. Let me ask you all something. You got an AR with a 1-4x or maybe even a 1-6x or 1-8x. Whats the maximum distance you'll engage targets (say 12 inch steel)? 300? 400? Lets say 600. We'll assume a 200 yard zero because many BDC reticles are calibrated with that zero in mind.

Your average guy uses a scope like that at either 1x, or its max magnification. Don't see much in between. In reality, you don't need to crank in magnification until you get past 200 yards, besides zeroing.

So why pay more for a first focal plane scope?

"The BDC!"

"The range estimation!"

If you're at 1x, why are you using a BDC? A 200 yard zero gets you about 7 inches low at 300 assuming 55gr ammo, 8 inches or so with 69gr stuff. Why screw around worrying about hash marks when you're still on chest if you are aiming at the conjunction of the collar bones? Then, if you do what everyone else seems to do and crank it up to max magnification, the BDC will be accurate. By the time you really need that on a human size target, you're out past 400. That collar bone hold still has you on torso at 400. If they are at 400, you got enough time to run the magnification to where your BDC works. I can recite the drop of each rifle I own with its chosen load and I've killed animals with many of them without the use of any fancy reticles. If you can memorize subtensions, you can memorize a few ballistics.

For instance: Deer standing broadside at 400 yards. I got about an 8 inch circle to hit to stay in vitals. 270 winchester shooting a 130gr bullet at 3100 fps, zeroed at 200 yards, drops 7 at 300 and 18 at 400. The average deer is 16 to 18 imches from brisket to backline. Knowing that, I know if I aimed at the backline, I'd likely hit too low or miss. Aim 1/2 the thickeness of the deer over the back and aim into the wind. All that takes a nanosecond to recall if you're familiar with your rifle, as you should be.

I actually see no point for a scope under 6x even having anything but 1x or 6x. All the stuff in the middle rarely gets used. If I need to zoom in, I also don't want my reticle covering the whole target.

If I'm shooting far enough to need a BDC, I'm twisting turrets instead. The turrets aren't married to one load and you can dial for the exact distance rather than doing the "between the 400 and 500 yard hashmark-ish". Find a load your gun likes, figure out what the load actually does and record your findings, voila! You can aim dead on. Change loads later? Just redo same. No worries about the BDC not being calibrated for your load.

Now, what scope am I going to buy? I keep hearing about these fancy low-powered-variable-optics people use on ARs. They look suspiciously like scopes.
 
Mark AR MOD 1 1.5-4x20mm, pretty cheap, starts with 1.5 X and that will work, only goes to 4 X, so what? Four times more magnification than irons
Too cheap? Get a VX-R
 
Mark AR MOD 1 1.5-4x20mm, pretty cheap, starts with 1.5 X and that will work, only goes to 4 X, so what? Four times more magnification than irons
Too cheap? Get a VX-R

That Mark AR would fit the bill, but the mount I ended up with is 30mm. The VXR looks good. Wish the "pig plex" reticle didn't actually say "pig plex" on either side of the crosshair.
 
I've recently decided to put a low-powered scope on one of my ARs. I have a BCM "recce rifle" with a 16 inch barrel and a 13 inch free floating handguard. I happened to get a good deal on an American Defense mount, that happens to have a 30mm. So, I've been researching options and think this crap is needlessly complex. All of these big tubes, increased cost of manufacturing due to front focal plane reticles, and BDCs that remind me of crop circles on Unsolved Mysteries.

First of all, all of this 30mm (and even bigger!) crap is out of hand. Your eye can only take so much light. Many 30mm scopes still use the same guts as a 1 inch scope. I've never had a decent one-inch scope go tango-uniform for any reason that wouldn't have occurred with a bigger tube. If you need the travel because you are a 600+ yard shooter, go for it. But if you're rocking a 1-6x, probably not needing that unless your gun or mount is bent somewhere. Most of these scopes have capped adjustments, so why would anyone need all that adjustment if they aren't spinning turrets and shooting beyond 600 yards? What about those BDC reticles?

Ah, BDC reticles. Let me ask you all something. You got an AR with a 1-4x or maybe even a 1-6x or 1-8x. Whats the maximum distance you'll engage targets (say 12 inch steel)? 300? 400? Lets say 600. We'll assume a 200 yard zero because many BDC reticles are calibrated with that zero in mind.

Your average guy uses a scope like that at either 1x, or its max magnification. Don't see much in between. In reality, you don't need to crank in magnification until you get past 200 yards, besides zeroing.

So why pay more for a first focal plane scope?

"The BDC!"

"The range estimation!"

If you're at 1x, why are you using a BDC? A 200 yard zero gets you about 7 inches low at 300 assuming 55gr ammo, 8 inches or so with 69gr stuff. Why screw around worrying about hash marks when you're still on chest if you are aiming at the conjunction of the collar bones? Then, if you do what everyone else seems to do and crank it up to max magnification, the BDC will be accurate. By the time you really need that on a human size target, you're out past 400. That collar bone hold still has you on torso at 400. If they are at 400, you got enough time to run the magnification to where your BDC works. I can recite the drop of each rifle I own with its chosen load and I've killed animals with many of them without the use of any fancy reticles. If you can memorize subtensions, you can memorize a few ballistics.

For instance: Deer standing broadside at 400 yards. I got about an 8 inch circle to hit to stay in vitals. 270 winchester shooting a 130gr bullet at 3100 fps, zeroed at 200 yards, drops 7 at 300 and 18 at 400. The average deer is 16 to 18 imches from brisket to backline. Knowing that, I know if I aimed at the backline, I'd likely hit too low or miss. Aim 1/2 the thickeness of the deer over the back and aim into the wind. All that takes a nanosecond to recall if you're familiar with your rifle, as you should be.

I actually see no point for a scope under 6x even having anything but 1x or 6x. All the stuff in the middle rarely gets used. If I need to zoom in, I also don't want my reticle covering the whole target.

If I'm shooting far enough to need a BDC, I'm twisting turrets instead. The turrets aren't married to one load and you can dial for the exact distance rather than doing the "between the 400 and 500 yard hashmark-ish". Find a load your gun likes, figure out what the load actually does and record your findings, voila! You can aim dead on. Change loads later? Just redo same. No worries about the BDC not being calibrated for your load.

Now, what scope am I going to buy? I keep hearing about these fancy low-powered-variable-optics people use on ARs. They look suspiciously like scopes.


1AM rambling at its finest right there brother!!!:oops::rolleyes::D
 
I've recently decided to put a low-powered scope on one of my ARs. I have a BCM "recce rifle" with a 16 inch barrel and a 13 inch free floating handguard. I happened to get a good deal on an American Defense mount, that happens to have a 30mm. So, I've been researching options and think this crap is needlessly complex. All of these big tubes, increased cost of manufacturing due to front focal plane reticles, and BDCs that remind me of crop circles on Unsolved Mysteries.

First of all, all of this 30mm (and even bigger!) crap is out of hand. Your eye can only take so much light. Many 30mm scopes still use the same guts as a 1 inch scope. I've never had a decent one-inch scope go tango-uniform for any reason that wouldn't have occurred with a bigger tube. If you need the travel because you are a 600+ yard shooter, go for it. But if you're rocking a 1-6x, probably not needing that unless your gun or mount is bent somewhere. Most of these scopes have capped adjustments, so why would anyone need all that adjustment if they aren't spinning turrets and shooting beyond 600 yards? What about those BDC reticles?

Ah, BDC reticles. Let me ask you all something. You got an AR with a 1-4x or maybe even a 1-6x or 1-8x. Whats the maximum distance you'll engage targets (say 12 inch steel)? 300? 400? Lets say 600. We'll assume a 200 yard zero because many BDC reticles are calibrated with that zero in mind.

Your average guy uses a scope like that at either 1x, or its max magnification. Don't see much in between. In reality, you don't need to crank in magnification until you get past 200 yards, besides zeroing.

So why pay more for a first focal plane scope?

"The BDC!"

"The range estimation!"

If you're at 1x, why are you using a BDC? A 200 yard zero gets you about 7 inches low at 300 assuming 55gr ammo, 8 inches or so with 69gr stuff. Why screw around worrying about hash marks when you're still on chest if you are aiming at the conjunction of the collar bones? Then, if you do what everyone else seems to do and crank it up to max magnification, the BDC will be accurate. By the time you really need that on a human size target, you're out past 400. That collar bone hold still has you on torso at 400. If they are at 400, you got enough time to run the magnification to where your BDC works. I can recite the drop of each rifle I own with its chosen load and I've killed animals with many of them without the use of any fancy reticles. If you can memorize subtensions, you can memorize a few ballistics.

For instance: Deer standing broadside at 400 yards. I got about an 8 inch circle to hit to stay in vitals. 270 winchester shooting a 130gr bullet at 3100 fps, zeroed at 200 yards, drops 7 at 300 and 18 at 400. The average deer is 16 to 18 imches from brisket to backline. Knowing that, I know if I aimed at the backline, I'd likely hit too low or miss. Aim 1/2 the thickeness of the deer over the back and aim into the wind. All that takes a nanosecond to recall if you're familiar with your rifle, as you should be.

I actually see no point for a scope under 6x even having anything but 1x or 6x. All the stuff in the middle rarely gets used. If I need to zoom in, I also don't want my reticle covering the whole target.

If I'm shooting far enough to need a BDC, I'm twisting turrets instead. The turrets aren't married to one load and you can dial for the exact distance rather than doing the "between the 400 and 500 yard hashmark-ish". Find a load your gun likes, figure out what the load actually does and record your findings, voila! You can aim dead on. Change loads later? Just redo same. No worries about the BDC not being calibrated for your load.

Now, what scope am I going to buy? I keep hearing about these fancy low-powered-variable-optics people use on ARs. They look suspiciously like scopes.



Holy SMOKES.... you need to get off medical leave ASAFP, bruh! All that time on your hands... you're starting to unravel, and you're gonna start making headline news if you aren't careful!! :eek:





:s0140:
 
@No_Regerts I'm also looking to scope one of my AR's with an LPVO or ACOG style of optic. (a 20" bbl). There are a lot of options and it is confusing. I'm told the BDC reticles are primarily intended for 3-gunners. Most of these LPVO's are for sports and not duty. I think one advantage of the FFP is you can use it to range targets at any magnification... I know a lot of people keep their LPVO at either 1x or at Max, but personally, I like 3-3.5x. I find anything over 4x and the sight picture shakes too much in the offhand position. That's why I'm also considering a Prism, or some other fixed power optic.

I am primarily an irons shooter, as I know how to use a sling. I'm not real big on optics as they make the rifle heavy and unbalanced, and then you have to worry about adjusting your cheek weld, eye relief, losing zero, etc.. But I watch people on YouTube using those LPVO's to hit with precision at range, and I am very interested to try it out. Primary Arms seems to have some nice offerings in the 1-6x category.
 
@No_Regerts I'm also looking to scope one of my AR's with an LPVO or ACOG style of optic. (a 20" bbl). There are a lot of options and it is confusing. I'm told the BDC reticles are primarily intended for 3-gunners. Most of these LPVO's are for sports and not duty. I think one advantage of the FFP is you can use it to range targets at any magnification... I know a lot of people keep their LPVO at either 1x or at Max, but personally, I like 3-3.5x. I find anything over 4x and the sight picture shakes too much in the offhand position. That's why I'm also considering a Prism, or some other fixed power optic.

I am primarily an irons shooter, as I know how to use a sling. I'm not real big on optics as they make the rifle heavy and unbalanced, and then you have to worry about cheek weld, eye relief, losing zero, etc.. But I watch people on YouTube using those LPVO's to hit with precision at range, and I am very interested to try it out. Primary Arms seems to have some nice offerings in the 1-6x category.

One of my frustrations with any variable optic, especially when loaded up with all sorts of cool things like BDCs and illumination knobs, and all that....is people spend time dicking with their scope instead of shooting! When I'm hunting with other people and I watch them struggle with the magnification, moving their head to find a clear image, fiddling with parallax....to make a 100 yard shot, it enrages me. I walked my azz off to get them in front of a deer and its going to walk away because they can't get into a shooting position and get a round off.

I like the concept of the ACOG, I just don't like the eye relief issue. There are versions like the TA44 and TA45 that have a lot more eye relief, but they are 1.5x. That, and they are all expensive.
 
I love my KAHLES K16i

No crazy oversized turrents with a million hash marks
No BDC reticle
No FFP

Just a clean line profile and very tough scope with the widest field of view in it's class, superior quality glass, an extremely forgiving eye box and all wrapped up in a reasonable size and weight. The SM1 reticle is red dot fast and daylight bright, with simple range estimation capability. It has a one MOA illuminated center dot for good precision shooting, and large illuminated circle that is 3 yards @ 100 yards on 1x and 18" @ 100 yards on 6x, plus a smaller non-illuminated bracket that is 3 yards @ 200 yards on 1x and 18" @ 200 yards on 6x and 10 Mil ladder with .5 MIL increments. I put it on a 1.93" G mount and it clear my 12 o'clock gizmos on 1x. I can't say enough good about this LPVO other than they are not cheap.
 

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