Moral Structuring and Ethical Priorities In Firearms Owners.

[DuneHopper]

Moral Structuring and Ethical Priorities In Firearms Owners.
Be it God, Country, Service or Home we as gun owners look at firearms ownership a Moral responsibility to the preceding list which may include all or some depending whom you are. But most share at least one. And by picking any one or all it assures us we are setting a moral boundary for ourselves, family, brothers or faith is set and see firearms as not just a tool for uniting our own personal cause but as a responsibility to God, Country, Service or our Homes to ensure we are safe and those around us are safe.
It is ethically pure and Morally just to use a firearm to defend ourselves based on how we view the world, and this is seen to be true.
As firearms owners with a deep seeded passion for right and wrong and seeing anti-gun person working to take away our abilities, surely puts us in a position of pushing the boundaries on faith, brotherhood and our families. And forces us to choose to do something, or do nothing at all.
However we are often put in situations where our faith, our oath and our promises may be challenged when we respond to the attacks we are under.
Would it not be then that we as gun owners should be looking at honor, loyalty and/or faith as a guide to our reactions ?
When reading so many post that are just full blown attacks you taste the frustration like an old can of sardines. There is at times outright rage pushing us to respond as we do.
I am not by any means saying passive response is a solution. But we as firearms owners have a responsibility no matter who we are we put trust in a solution be it God, Country, Service or Home.
Yet if we are honest, how can we not see we; not them forced our own breaking of our own ethics and morals all to due to responses to those who do not respect our rights or care for our way of life or our moral and ethical compasses ?
There is a saying hate breeds hate, why we look at uniting firearms owners and we are a broken split up bunch with varying directions. Should we not take a deep breath and remember what, and who we are based on those ethics and morals that guide us? Not the Moral and Ethical responses the opposition desires us to display?

DH
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[Andy54Hawken]

At the end of the day it boils done to :
Do you own and shoot your firearms safely ?
Do we agree that we do not want to lose the right to keep and bear arms ?
Those two questions are to me at least , the most important questions and issues to keep in mind.

Also it is important to remember that if you want to talk effectively and convince other folks that your ideas or thoughts have merit .... You must be open to at least listening to the ideas and thoughts of others.
Dismissing them out of hand or using the same tired old arguments against them or to get your point across , just won't do.

We all here are gun owners , we have a powerful voice ... we just need to use our voice firmly , respectfully and with consideration of all here.
Andy

 

[Koda]

I'm not certain what the question is but to me gun owners need to present themselves as safe and responsible gun owners to everyone especially non gun owners and anti gun owners.

 

[USMC-03]

The foundational answer, not just in this context but much more broadly as well, is having a set rationally based principles. This requires self reflection and serious philosophical inquiry.

I'm not trying to be overly cryptic. But in order to effectively teach or debate any subject you must first understand the building blocks; this is particularly important when ethics, morality and belief systems come into play.

The world is never black and white, it is an infinite combination of shades of gray. In order to critically evaluate concepts, separate dogma from substance, we need a framework. This is especially true in debate over self defense and bearing arms.

Separate fact from story; ask questions; inspire curiosity. That's about all we can do.

So, have I gotten way to far out into the weeds?

 

[DuneHopper]

The foundational answer, not just in this context but much more broadly as well, is having a set rationally based principles. This requires self reflection and serious philosophical inquiry.

I'm not trying to be overly cryptic. But in order to effectively teach or debate any subject you must first understand the building blocks; this is particularly important when ethics, morality and belief systems come into play.

The world is never black and white, it is an infinite combination of shades of gray. In order to critically evaluate concepts, separate dogma from substance, we need a framework. This is especially true in debate over self defense and bearing arms.

Separate fact from story; ask questions; inspire curiosity. That's about all we can do.

So, have I gotten way to far out into the weeds?

No I think you are well with in the tree line nicely said.

 

[Mygrainman]

The anti will often use the tactic of making the pro out to be the villain by passive aggressively envoking a violent or distasteful reaction. One must be mindful of this when debating.

makes sense that if you can fight fire with fire... You can also fight snowflakes with snowflakes.

 

[Boats]

Personally, my answer to this "moral dilemma" is Wyoming.

This state, where every anti-gun legislative scheme is routed from gun grabber to gun grabber committee head to stay alive, and then passed as a declared emergency to avoid ballot referrals, is already a lost cause.

California is the super-massive black hole of gun control suckage and Oregon is caught in its gravity well, inexorably on the way to gun rights oblivion, with a thrust assist from the 9th Circus Clowns federally.

Anything we do about it in the meanwhile is just our biding time fruitlessly pushing buttons and sending out distress calls til the inevitable destruction comes.

 

[DuneHopper]

Personally, my answer to this "moral dilemma" is Wyoming.
This state, where every anti-gun legislative scheme is routed from gun grabber to gun grabber committee head to stay alive, and then passed as a declared emergency to avoid ballot referrals, is already a lost cause.
California is the super-massive black hole of gun control suckage and Oregon is caught in its gravity well, inexorably on the way to gun rights oblivion, with a thrust assist from the 9th Circus Clowns federally.
Anything we do about it in the meanwhile is just our biding time fruitlessly pushing buttons and sending out distress calls til the inevitable destruction comes.

Hey Boats glad you chimed in, perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of the topic.
I know you are one pissed of person, and my topic was about anger and hate is it really who we are ? I am not attacking you, but heck man do you not see what hate shows everyone else about gun owners ?
Maybe thats just how you deal with things yourself is be pissed off at the world and I get that, but even as much as I disagree with you.
I have to assume if you have served, have a family, or believe in God then you know 100% we must act honorably in how we represent each other.
You must have ethics and a moral compass everyone has one. Just being mad an upset is not a position.
But as I said hateful angry people are not who gun owners are. I wish you well brother must suck walking around pissed off all the time.
Oregon, me not even given up on the fight here. In fact this topic was a small exercise for all of us to take a moment sit back and think do we represent the type of gun owners we our selves, loved ones, our service buddies or God would approve of ? That was the topic.
Good luck Boats, hope you find what you are looking for.

 

[Misteramax]

You know...I suck at representing gun owners. I'm safe. I try to advocate as best as I can for our precious rights. I just don't get along very well with my generation or the new millennials. I fall in that transition between generation x and millennials.

I'm just tired of my generation trying to reinvent the wheel. With everything. Even some social issues. People have lost their f'ing minds. It's not really debating guns that gets me anymore. Everyone wants to be in each other's bubblegum all the time. No, no need to freak out and call Mike Pence. I'm referring to privacy and the constant lack of respect for others opinions. We live in a country were if you use your freedom of speech you may or may not be in trouble. We live in a country where we have so many micromanaging laws. People are becoming more disconnected with camping/hunting. People would rather be inside than go outdoors to shoot guns!

I'm proud of myself for not becoming like most of my buddies in highschool. Neutered, driving a prius, ranting about Bernie bull@#$+, who would rather be on their iPhone than go play in the woods. However...I really don't like most of these people.

 

[Boats]

Hey Boats glad you chimed in, perhaps you misunderstood the meaning of the topic.
I know you are one pissed of person, and my topic was about anger and hate is it really who we are ? I am not attacking you, but heck man do you not see what hate shows everyone else about gun owners ?
Maybe thats just how you deal with things yourself is be pissed off at the world and I get that, but even as much as I disagree with you.
I have to assume if you have served, have a family, or believe in God then you know 100% we must act honorably in how we represent each other.
You must have ethics and a moral compass everyone has one. Just being mad an upset is not a position.
But as I said hateful angry people are not who gun owners are. I wish you well brother must suck walking around pissed off all the time.
Oregon, me not even given up on the fight here. In fact this topic was a small exercise for all of us to take a moment sit back and think do we represent the type of gun owners we our selves, loved ones, our service buddies or God would approve of ? That was the topic.
Good luck Boats, hope you find what you are looking for.

Pissed off? I meant to convey an air of resignation. Oregon is finished. It is only a matter of when the body drops.

It will not be long now. You will see a state level awb. You will see mag restrictions. You will eventually see Class III changes. Live here long enough, you'll see the end of CCW permitting because we allowed a right to become a state issue voucher privilege.

What you won't see is a holding of the line or an expansion of gun rights here unless they come out of Congress or the SCOTUS.

I mean really, who cares how the losers conduct themselves? They still lose.

I'm voting with my feet eventually. The writing is on the wall here.

 

[DuneHopper]

Pissed off? I meant to convey an air of resignation. Oregon is finished. It is only a matter of when the body drops.
It will not be long now. You will see a state level awb. You will see mag restrictions. You will eventually see Class III changes. Live here long enough, you'll see the end of CCW permitting because we allowed a right to become a state issue voucher privilege.
What you won't see is a holding of the line or an expansion of gun rights here unless they come out of Congress or the SCOTUS.
I mean really, who cares how the losers conduct themselves? They still lose.
I'm voting with my feet eventually. The writing is on the wall here.

I too may not stay here ( Oregon) I am looking at a couple states if this stays the course, however.
If we do not learn to stand and stay on principles there will come a time you and I will no longer be able to move.
The UK, and Australia are great examples of how one whole place was eventually absorbed.
Canada as well with her many Providences was absorbed. So yes I get the moving part I would consider it as a well.
But the problem is not moving, its ending the ability by antis to use how we "act" against us. Thats all the topic was about and gave some guidelines that are applicable. You and I can move and chances are we could live long enough to retain rights somewhere. But what about our kids and todays newborns? If we do not take action to change the course we will end up with no place to move to. If anything or Morals and Ethics should tell us to fight for others futures.

 

[Boats]

The action that should be taken gets deleted here. However, the Founders saw that freedom needed a guarantee way back in 1791 and provided us the ultimate out.

 

[bbbass]

Too deep for me.

 

[DuneHopper]

The action that should be taken gets deleted here. However, the Founders saw that freedom needed a guarantee way back in 1791 and provided us the ultimate out.

I agree @Boats , Image if our forefathers simply said oh well let just move to South America?
There are about what 2 Dozen groups nation wide that stand and yell no compromise. Not Compromising is what our Forefathers did. In backdoor meetings most groups discuss the topic you discuss but cant. But then they watch TV and see Bundies get crushed and such and go back and play keyboard commando. The image our forefathers gave was huge and it spelled unity; in doing was was right and just so all could have their freedoms. They just didn't get mad and hate everyone that disagreed with them, they took true action. I don't want my post deleted either but there are not enough that will stand for what is needed. And someday the walls will be under siege, makes me wonder is this what they are waiting for a point of no return to finally act? I know you disagree with my statements of unity. But by God man we have only two choices form a united front or wait until SHTF. What we are doing now is playing in the sand doing nothing waiting for the bullies to come kick sand before we will do something.

(DISCLAIMER FOR MODS, I AM NOT CONDONING ANY ACTS IN THIS POST, THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES DO SO BY THEIR OWN, AND DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSION )

 

[Boats]

I agree @Boats , Image if our forefathers simply said oh well let just move to South America?
There are about what 2 Dozen groups nation wide that stand and yell no compromise. Not Compromising is what our Forefathers did. In backdoor meetings most groups discuss the topic you discuss but cant. But then they watch TV and see Bundies get crushed and such and go back and play keyboard commando. The image our forefathers gave was huge and it spelled unity; in doing was was right and just so all could have their freedoms. They just didn't get mad and hate everyone that disagreed with them, they took true action. I don't want my post deleted either but there are not enough that will stand for what is needed. And someday the walls will be under siege, makes me wonder is this what they are waiting for a point of no return to finally act? I know you disagree with my statements of unity. But by God man we have only two choices form a united front or wait until SHTF. What we are doing now is playing in the sand doing nothing waiting for the bullies to come kick sand before we will do something.

(DISCLAIMER FOR MODS, I AM NOT CONDONING ANY ACTS IN THIS POST, THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES DO SO BY THEIR OWN, AND DRAW THEIR OWN CONCLUSION )

Nothing has changed since the last time we had it out over unity. I'm still of the opinion that no one serious about their gun rights can unite with backstabbers.

 

[DuneHopper]

Nothing has changed since the last time we had it out over unity. I'm still of the opinion that no one serious about their gun rights can unite with backstabbers.

I agree nothing has changed in my opinion of your ideas either. And I am still under the opinion people either poop or get off the pot.
And on this I agree, that I disagree 100% with your philosophy and only because its always just talk no action by those that oppose the ideas I suggested. I saw nothing change from the last time we talked, I saw no rushing of the bulls in Salem, all is quiet.
Do you know why Boats I have to come up with an idea like I do ? Because those who yell I wont comply like yourself are indeed complying.
Now because of site rules I can't say what is its exactly but you and I know what you are talking about and yet I still see nothing on your end done or by those that speak as you do? So one is left waiting for those to act that will not and the only other ideas are to try and find like minded people and get it solved. If you ever do more then talk and make a difference I will eat my hat and boots.

Our forefathers did more then talk. They got off the pot and got things done, they didn't just give lip service. People like me Boats have to try and solve problem because people like you wont stand behind claims of no compliance. For if there was no compliance by those who speak as you do I would ever have to bring up the topics to discuss unity would I ? You are 100% right though we are being forced to try and work with those who may lie and be deceitful, but only because no proactive methods are being done by those who say no compliance and that speak as you do.
Perhaps some day the flag will wave once more, but that will be if the talking stops and finally action is taken to get rights back.
You and I Boats could spend all day and night speaking our position. But I am only having to present a position because those who speak as you do will not act, so there is no other choice left but unity. Again let me know if that ever changes.
I know you disagree with me and that is fine, but perhaps you will take a look at why are people like me having to even try discussions and unity ? Why people like you speak of other solutions and never acts on them.

 

[Boats]

Complying? Who is complying? Not me. I'm not on some "mother may I?" county compiled permission list anywhere in OR, and I haven't bought or sold a firearm since the latest BS rolled onto the books.

Nor will I.

 

[DuneHopper]

Complying? Who is complying? Not me. I'm not on some "mother may I?" county compiled permission list anywhere in OR, and I haven't bought or sold a firearm since the latest BS rolled onto the books.

Nor will I.

I hate to tell you Boats, you have made allot of claims on here how bad my ideas are and even had your post removed after you described the process needed because mine will fail. You even in this thread hinted yet again but you knew if you say it outright it would be removed. Hypothetically speaking a man who stands in a room stating they will defend the room at all cost and when people break in and take everything and they stand there and say they wont comply...well they just did.
You made allot of claims suggesting that if this last bill passed you would not put up with it. And well its passed and you and those who speak as you do are still saying no compliance why all that was done is people who speak as you do was compliance.
I think you are confused, you are saying, not doing anything is not complying ??? LOL, after these bills passed where were all these people that think as you do storming Salem and protesting the outcome? I could have heard a crickets chirp from those who think as you do when it passed. Doing nothing when a tyrannical law passes is exactly compliance. Those who say my ideas are crazy and yet do nothing, give others false hope when they themselves did nothing. I had suggested you start your own thread and rally people for your opinion and get things done. I have encouraged you on more then one occasion. But you think coming on to threads I made and insulting them or what ever makes you non-compliant ? You are just hiding behind my ideas and throwing rocks at the Antis from a safe place.
I stick my self out here and take the punches cause I feel its needed to be said. You and those like you have not created any movement, started any threads to gain momentum. In fact you all have done zip to stop anything, but if working to get unity going is a bad idea to you then do something else and get people to support your ideas ? I could sit back in my office and take shots all day at another post and never have to prove anything. Thats what you are doing making allot of noise how bad my ideas are and we must not comply.......and then when the dust settles and laws are passed people who think as you are dead quiet all people like you did was comply. As was said poop or get off the pot.

 

[Boats]

I think you take yourself way too seriously.

 

[Kruel J]

Let's not make this thread just like some others gentlemen.