Minnesota, here we go again. I'm betting ammo/gun sales are brisk

[Knobgoblin]

Not at all an unlawful stop. I've been pulled over three times in my driving life solely for expired tags, as stated by the officer. I am a white male driving a late model luxury car. I was also lawfully armed on two of those occasions. On one stop (AZ), the officer secured my loaded firearm in his vehicle while we conducted our business. On the second lawfully armed stop (OR), the officer asked me if I was carrying as I presented my CHL with my DL. I responded in the affirmative and his words were "don't reach for it, ok?" In all three encounters, the officer was professional and respectful, as was I. Not a heated word or even a raised voice on the part of either party. My uncle just last month -- retired military, retired game warden, white as they come... pulled over in AZ solely for expired tags (he was actually legal, DMV failed to send his new tags timely). He was armed. He was not killed, harrassed, or otherwise put upon by the deputy. At the end he thanked the deputy for his service and was responded to in kind.

That was mighty white of him.
Never honestly understood that joke. And I guess I still don't. I've been pulled over half a dozen times. Got tickets twice, warned on the others. Been screamed at by a WSP trooper the first time I got a ticket. Had another trooper that looked all of 12 years old give me a warning about not signing my registration, and while I was thanking him for the warning he hands me a speeding ticket and smiles like Ashton Kutcher on punked. Must be a good joke to bait and switch some dumb ol citizen.
Does it matter what I was driving? How much money I make? How old I was at the time? What my gender or ethnicity is? That I don't wash my car regularly?

I support law enforcement. In many different ways, the most significant of which to me being that I pay my GD taxes. And yes, I paid my tickets too.
Lol

 

[nammac]

But what of the part about him being historically armed? That is what I highlighted.

Attempted armed robbery, he failed to show up for his court date for which there was an active warrant. A stop where he had, as i understand it, a handgun on the seat, felon in possession of a firearm. Add in his social media and tweets waving around a firearm, seems like he has a tendency to be armed...

 

[Member 34319]

Thank you @1775usmc @WillametteWill @Darby Darrow for the added perspectives of LEO. It certainly helps give me (maybe others that read through it all) clearer understanding of how and why these stops are performed. To some extent I understand it, to some extent I can see why folks can be angered by them. Hell, it took at least a few pages of back and forth dialogue to get me a clearer picture, so that at least illustrates the complexity of the matter if anything.

I can definitely see some benefit to this tactic, yet I can definitely see how certain communities can see it as something else.

 

[Dinglenutz]

I can definitely see some benefit to this tactic, yet I can definitely see how certain communities can see it as something else.

I think that's something I can agree with. Perhaps it's a bit like salt - a little is good, too much ruins the soup. I dunno.

 

[Member 34319]

I think that's something I can agree with. Perhaps it's a bit like salt - a little is good, too much ruins the soup. I dunno.

I can understand the black communities side to this for sure.

If officers see a bunch of nazis in a Hispanic neighborhood and 9/10 times it leads to crime. They will start to profile this.

Black kid in a new car 9/10 times it's stolen or a criminal inside. They will profile this.

If one looks solely at the color of the skin and not the data behind the profile, it's racism. If one looks at the data of the criminal behavior and not the color of the skin, it's good policing.

Thing I'm curious to, if it is 9/10 or a different number. Since that information is rarely reported, only the ones that turn out badly, I can see why we are where we are in today's world.

 

[Member 53328]

I can understand the black communities side to this for sure.

If officers see a bunch of nazis in a Hispanic neighborhood and 9/10 times it leads to crime. They will start to profile this.

Black kid in a new car 9/10 times it's stolen or a criminal inside. They will profile this.

If one looks solely at the color of the skin and not the data behind the profile, it's racism. If one looks at the data of the criminal behavior and not the color of the skin, it's good policing.

Thing I'm curious to, if it is 9/10 or a different number. Since that information is rarely reported, only the ones that turn out badly, I can see why we are where we are in today's world.

It all comes down to the ethics and morals of each individual police officer. Unfortunately one bad mistake or one racist cop paints every cop with the same brush nation wide. If only that had the same recourse for positive things done by officers. Unfortunately our society loves and feeds on the negative of every situation and lives the victim hood mentality.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I have zero arguments if pulled over and this is takes place.

Ive seen stops where the officer doesn't state the reason for the stop. This should be the first thing out of their mouths in my opinion. To %100 clarify the stop was legal.

If they can't articulate the reason for the stop, it's legality is questionable.

I've seen plenty of footage where a cop pulls someone over, does not give driver reason for stop. Immediately asked for license and registration. If at any moment a person knows or shows they know their right to have the cop state the legal reason for doing so, god forbid they question the legality of the reason, the cops tend to escalate.

Again, not saying it's what happened to Mr Wright, just illustrating that it happens, and is being privately documented more and more. Which likely means it happens a lot to a lot of people and they just "go along" with it.

What Mr. Wright caused to happen to him is well documented on body cam.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

It's me questioning things, is that ok?

You can question whatever you like. And I'm citing facts. Is that OK?

 

[Member 34319]

You can question whatever you like. And I'm citing facts. Is that OK?

Citing facts that may not be entirely proven yet, may be opinion. Not fact.

What Mr. Wright caused to happen to him is well documented on body cam.

This is an example of an opinion. Not a fact.

I like to question things. Like questioning you, if your posts are in fact, fact? Or are they opinion?

 

[arakboss]

[Emphasis added. ]

For someone who tends to assume and speculate a lot, you really do seem to have a bias. Even without all the facts in hand.
Pretty sure all the cops in Minnesota are thankful.

View attachment 860952
If I ever caught my kid being this irresponsible with a firearm even once - just this picture - I'd make sure his arm couldn't even hold a weapon much less allow him to ever be around one again. But this? ^ This is gangster life now. Not just the pics, but all the assorted disregard for any and all safety concerns that are culturally acceptable now.

I blame the parents.

Hope his kid doesn't grow up the same way.

 

[WillametteWill]

@Reno , very much appreciate your perspective and willingness to civilly discuss these events. I try hard to to understand were others are coming from (and have been), knowing my perspective is only just that, mine. We need more of this in the world. These topics have an important relationship for ALL of us gun owners.

Thanks,
Will

 

[bkroger86]

Attempted armed robbery, he failed to show up for his court date for which there was an active warrant. A stop where he had, as i understand it, a handgun on the seat, felon in possession of a firearm. Add in his social media and tweets waving around a firearm, seems like he has a tendency to be armed...

It doesn't matter, the police officer is caught on video admitting her mistake of shooting him with her Glock instead of her Taser, so the manslaughter charge sticks. It will be the biggest piece of evidence in the prosecution's case against her.

Nothing like your own bodycam catching you admitting that you screwed up.

People are saying she'll probably take a plea and serve 2-4 years because it's airtight with the video.

 

[nammac]

It doesn't matter, the police officer is caught on video admitting her mistake of shooting him with her Glock instead of her Taser, so the manslaughter charge sticks. It will be the biggest piece of evidence in the prosecution's case against her.

Nothing like your own bodycam catching you admitting that you screwed up.

People are saying she'll probably take a plea and serve 2-4 years because it's airtight with the video.

Think ya might have missed the context just a wee bit. I was responding to a question about how he was known to be armed...

Never debated the issue what the officer did...

 

[Dinglenutz]

It doesn't matter, the police officer is caught on video admitting her mistake

Sometimes an odd situation can ensue when liability attaches if a perp is shot accidentally when shooting them on purpose would have been OK. Exhibit A, the NY trigger. If she'd shot him on purpose I'd be OK w/ it, and that to me mutes any feelings of outrage I might have.

Philando Castile on the other hand, doesn't seem to have deserved what he got and as far as I can tell no one went to prison for that.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Citing facts that may not be entirely proven yet, may be opinion. Not fact.

You are disputing my assertion that thousands of motorists are lawfully pulled over every month solely for expired tags and that 99.999999999% of them are not killed by police?

This is an example of an opinion. Not a fact.

Sorry, it is a fact that had Duante Wright not slipped out of the cuffs and got back in his car he'd be alive today. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

I like to question things. Like questioning you, if your posts are in fact, fact? Or are they opinion?

Sure. But I have posted only facts in rebuttal to your assertions.

Now here is an opinion: excusing unlawful behavior by African Americans specifically w/r/t police authority is actually getting more of them killed. Change my mind.

 

[Member 34319]

You are disputing my assertion that thousands of motorists are lawfully pulled over every month solely for expired tags and that 99.999999999% of them are not killed by police?

Sorry, it is a fact that had Duante Wright not slipped out of the cuffs and got back in his car he'd be alive today. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

Sure. But I have posted only facts in rebuttal to your assertions.

Now here is an opinion: excusing unlawful behavior by African Americans specifically w/r/t police authority is actually getting more of them killed. Change my mind.

I'm disputing that it is not clearly fact that he was 100% known to be pulled over for the tags. You used a factual data point that you provided no evidence for to assert an opinion. If you posted actual data showing that 99.9% it then is fact. Stating it as fact, is not fact.

Your entitled to your opinions.

I simply like to question narratives and not simply pick a side to these things because that's the popular route. Simply picking a side, is in many ways, no better than the other side that sees what they want to see. Or simply follows along with the narrative.

I instead try to come to an understanding of things. Three law enforcement here, I'm guessing they are (only a few verified), helped walk me through understanding their side of these traffic stops. I still don't 100% agree with them, but at least I'm at a better understanding of things.

That's a big plus in my opinion.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I'm disputing that it is not clearly fact that he was 100% known to be pulled over for the tags. You used a factual data point that you provided no evidence for to assert an opinion. If you posted actual data showing that 99.9% it then is fact. Stating it as fact, is not fact.

"Wright Was Pulled Over for Expired Registration Tags & Warned About an Air Freshener on His Rearview Mirror Before Officers Learned He Had a Warrant for His Arrest Because of a Missed Court Date, Police Say."

FACT. https://heavy.com/news/daunte-wright/

There is likely no data for "number of motorists pulled over for expired tags and not killed by police." However, the FACT that we rarely hear about such an incident is empirically valid, thus supporting my factual assertion.

Your entitled to your opinions.

Fallacy. Argumentum ad hominem: I am not the topic of this thread, nor did I seek your imprimatur to share the facts or the single opinion I shared, as duly identified.

I simply like to question narratives and not simply pick a side to these things because that's the popular route. Simply picking a side, is in many ways, no better than the other side that sees what they want to see. Or simply follows along with the narrative.

Fallacy. Red Herring: You have implied that I have "picked a side." You have no evidence to make any such assertion.

I instead try to come to an understanding of things. Three law enforcement here, I'm guessing they are (only a few verified), helped walk me through understanding their side of these traffic stops. I still don't 100% agree with them, but at least I'm at a better understanding of things.

That's a big plus in my opinion.

Not sure I understand you point. Please clarify.

 

[Member 34319]

It's all good @GripItAndRipIt no matter what I say here I likely won't change anyone's mind on their way of thinking or their outlook on this subject.

I've tried to refrain myself from implying anything of someone's opinions to the best of my ability. If you feel I've implied you have picked a side, my bad.

I simply like to question things. I try to refrain from stating facts if they aren't. I try to ask for clarification when someone states facts that might not be. If at any time I made it sound like your opinions were not valid, I'm in the wrong.

 

[edzz]

It's a bloody shame that the junior police officer that she was training did not follow her instruction to use his Taser before the situation escalated to the point requiring the use lethal force.

 

[Member 34319]

"Wright Was Pulled Over for Expired Registration Tags & Warned About an Air Freshener on His Rearview Mirror Before Officers Learned He Had a Warrant for His Arrest Because of a Missed Court Date, Police Say."

@GripItAndRipIt see red. This is what I'm questioning among many other things.

Is it now %100 fact if the police say it is?

Is it wrong to question the narrative?

Law enforcement also say Jeffery Epstein hung himself.