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You ever see a securities fraud ,or embezzlement arrest go bad like this?

Because those are both felonies.

I remember a chappelle show skit about the disparity of police behavior for white collar crimes .
Truth to this. Not sure why we feel white collar crimes deserve soft touch.
Remember the outrage of some when the FBI raided Michael Cohan? It was clearly an excessive show of force. Pretty sure that reaction would not be the same for say a raid on a suspected chi-mo house. It would be cheered.

Personally find this shooting inexcusable and officer should face charges.
Negligence resulting in death is a whatever the charge in that state, manslaughter or murder.
Don't believe race was an issue and sad to see it being spun like this AGAIN.
I also thought this wouldn't happen in a Harris/Bidden administration? I'm really confused now:s0092:
 


Action starts at 00:35. Can anyone expound on the hints, clues, or Spidey Sense that could have told the cop that she was about to get shot?

In the case of Duante Wright, I think it's clear the cop did not mean to shoot him with her handgun. Can we agree on that?

If the answer is yes, she did not mean to shoot the guy, then how does that change how you view the incident?

And has anyone addressed my question of where Mr. Wright would be right now if he hadn't fought the cops? Let's be clear, I'm not for a minute suggesting he deserved to die, but he put himself in danger by resisting.

Who thinks it's a good idea to fight the cops? How does it usually/almost always turn out?



P
Unfortunately I don't think everyone will agree with you on this:

"In the case of Duante Wright, I think it's clear the cop did not mean to shoot him with her handgun. Can we agree on that?"

I don't think she meant to shoot him.
 
Not sure why we feel white collar crimes deserve soft touch.
Probably a matter of risk and IQ. The reasonable expectation would seem to be that Bernie isn't gonna pull a Glock and try to get his limo driver to speed away from pursuing police while standing in the sunroof and shooting backwards.

He's smart enough to know that's not how to beat the thing, and has lawyers to fight for him.
 
As to where said felon would be now if he had complied, most likely on the streets to commit additional crimes....

That seems to be the way to court systems are operating these days, pay a fine, slap on the wrist and turn 'em back out on the streets to offend another day...
 
Probably a matter of risk and IQ. The reasonable expectation would seem to be that Bernie isn't gonna pull a Glock and try to get his limo driver to speed away from pursuing police while standing in the sunroof and shooting backwards.

He's smart enough to know that's not how to beat the thing, and has lawyers to fight for him.
I agree in a majority of cases.
Just because someone is accused of a white collar crime does not mean that he or she is not capable of committing a violent act against someone else or themselves.
 


Action starts at 00:35. Can anyone expound on the hints, clues, or Spidey Sense that could have told the cop that she was about to get shot?

In the case of Duante Wright, I think it's clear the cop did not mean to shoot him with her handgun. Can we agree on that?

If the answer is yes, she did not mean to shoot the guy, then how does that change how you view the incident?

And has anyone addressed my question of where Mr. Wright would be right now if he hadn't fought the cops? Let's be clear, I'm not for a minute suggesting he deserved to die, but he put himself in danger by resisting.

Who thinks it's a good idea to fight the cops? How does it usually/almost always turn out?



P
A lot of people on this forum think it's ok to get in a gun fight with cops if they come after their guns or violate their rights.... Double standards and hypocrisy is all this thread has turned into. If it becomes law that you couldn't have them wouldn't it be a lawful order? An order that everyone here is saying you should automatically comply with. I'm not saying it's the same as robbery but it would be "law." Think about that. Once again I hear a lot of police state rhetoric that everyone is ok with here but on the next thread everyone will be up in arms and ready to go to war with the cops.

The discharge was negligent. I don't think she intended to take his life but she did. And now she will rightfully pay the price. Did Wright know he was going to loose his life by pulling away from the officer..... no. But he did and that is the price that was paid. As unjust as it was. Two people and two families took loss in a situation that could have been mitigated and handled better on both ends of the spectrum from the get go.
 
If it becomes law that you couldn't have them wouldn't it be a lawful order?
An argument could be made about the bill of rights and natural law. If the government says a person can't engage in religious speech outside the home, I don't believe that would be a lawful order no matter what the legislature managed to write into local ordinances. People going to worship would be engaging in a form of lawful peaceful protest in my view of things.

I'm not of the opinion that any such argument exists for the events chronicled as part of the OP event.

The discharge was negligent.
I think that's pretty clear.
 
An argument could be made about the bill of rights and natural law. If the government says a person can't engage in religious speech outside the home, I don't believe that would be a lawful order no matter what the legislature managed to write into local ordinances. People going to worship would be engaging in a form of lawful peaceful protest in my view of things.

I'm not of the opinion that any such argument exists for the events chronicled as part of the OP event.


I think that's pretty clear.
There are plenty of laws and cases that could be argued to violate the bill of rights. Concealed carry permits being one of them. But everyone falls in line with that. It all comes down to how much each individual is willing to give up. We may at one point become felons, we may have warrants out for our arrests. And when the cops pull you over because your plate is register to an active warrant, possibly a felony warrant and the cops step out guns drawn don't complain. They will treat you just like you are justifying the way this kid was dealt with. Hopefully you have a cop who is cool, calm, and collected. One that knows a difference between a taser and a handgun. Otherwise you may find yourself 6 feet deep infested with worms. The mentality of it doesn't effect me so I don't care is Bull$hit. You'll care when you're the last one standing and everyone you have written off isn't their to stand by you as a unified cause. We all may become criminals someday. Keep that in mind. These actions and some of the cops that you are so eager to defend MAY be that same ones that are locking or shooting your a$$ up. I love LE and respect the job they do (cause I did it in the military in that means anything. Yes it was different but a lot of the same calls and training). But I also think somethings need to change (training, hiring, responsibility, communication, etc.). I won't sit here and defend every use of force deployed simply cause it was done by someone wearing a blue uniform.
 
Does armed robbery conceivably fall under that plenty? I would say no.
Would you rob someone if your kid was starving for food? Would you steal to provide for your family? Would you car jack someone to get out of a deadly situation? Not saying those are the reasons he did it but it's still the same crime just a different motive. It's very easy to sit on the outside and preach I am holier then you. We as a society choose what laws we support and don't as a whole. Not everyone will agree with them. There are laws on the books that I disagree with and don't follow. I'm sure you're the same.
 
None of those are protected by the bill of rights or is an exercise of natural rights.
Ok. Obviously you have your mind set on one outcome or thought process. Trying to explain my opinion or thought process over the internet has had a futile outcome. I'll leave it at that. These conversation would be much more productive if done in person.
 
Obviously you have your mind set on one outcome or thought process.
I believe that it's very likely that, for instance, the stop of Lt Lasario (sp) was illegal and violated his rights, and he was within his rights, most likely, to question the orders barked at him. Whether this was wise or not could be debated, but IMO he was very likely in the right. The case in the OP, not so much. The police were in the right to pull a car over with expired tags, and once a couple warrants were found, they were duty bound to collect the felon. One of the things that has to be true for force to be justified is that the stop and arrest has to be justified. If that test is failed, everything else falls apart morally speaking and the officer giving orders has no more right to give orders than a barking dog.

That officer may have the means to force the issue, but not the right.

But for the OP this does not seem to be the case.
 
Unfortunately I don't think everyone will agree with you on this:

"In the case of Duante Wright, I think it's clear the cop did not mean to shoot him with her handgun. Can we agree on that?"

I don't think she meant to shoot him.
I think that's why she was charged with manslaughter, not murder; because it was unintentional but caused by negligent behavior.
 
I believe that it's very likely that, for instance, the stop of Lt Lasario (sp) was illegal and violated his rights, and he was within his rights, most likely, to question the orders barked at him. Whether this was wise or not could be debated, but IMO he was very likely in the right. The case in the OP, not so much. The police were in the right to pull a car over with expired tags, and once a couple warrants were found, they were duty bound to collect the felon. One of the things that has to be true for force to be justified is that the stop and arrest has to be justified. If that test is failed, everything else falls apart morally speaking and the officer giving orders has no more right to give orders than a barking dog.

That officer may have the means to force the issue, but not the right.

But for the OP this does not seem to be the case.
Have you ever worked in any form of LE? I am sure they had PC to pull the LT over. Even if it was the tint that obstructed the tags. The thing is once they saw the tags they should have apologized and left. Unless the tint was illegal. There is no point initiating a traffic stop without PC. If you find anything it will be thrown out in court (fruit from poisonous tree). And what base line standard are we going to use for questioning LE during a traffic stop? I've been pulled over and had no idea what I did wrong. Does that give me the right to just start bearding the cop cause I think I was pulled over unjustly? Is that our job in society? The LT resisted the police just as much as Wright did. One was passive and one was active. Each should be dealt with accordingly. The cops failed in both scenarios and jumped the force continuum way too fast. I don't know where we came up with the idea that in certain instances you have every right to resist and question the cops and then in the same sentence we have to do whatever the cop says..... Being a LE is a hard a$$ job and the American society/community doesn't make it any easier. Props to all the LE still doing the job. You could t pay me enough money to do it.
 
I believe that it's very likely that, for instance, the stop of Lt Lasario (sp) was illegal and violated his rights, and he was within his rights, most likely, to question the orders barked at him. Whether this was wise or not could be debated, but IMO he was very likely in the right. The case in the OP, not so much. The police were in the right to pull a car over with expired tags, and once a couple warrants were found, they were duty bound to collect the felon. One of the things that has to be true for force to be justified is that the stop and arrest has to be justified. If that test is failed, everything else falls apart morally speaking and the officer giving orders has no more right to give orders than a barking dog.

That officer may have the means to force the issue, but not the right.

But for the OP this does not seem to be the case.
That's the thing I keep coming back to.

Expired tags.

Having expired registration and getting pulled over for expired tags are two very different things.

I want to see the body cam footage of the initial stop. My bet the officer doesn't mention anything in that regards. Gets ID and finds warrant.

Why else would the kid try calling his mom during the interaction to attempt figuring it out.

The warrant wasn't known, until after the stop. Warrants require back up before making arrest. So this stop wasn't nearly as short as the available footage makes you believe it is.

I think the department is using the fact that the tags weren't up to date to validate the stop. I wouldn't be surprised if that detail was discovered after the stop was initiated and used as legal reason to detain and get identification.

Departments manipulate the footage they make all the time, the footage they released is on purpose. By only showing the guy not cooperating, it makes them look good and the perp bad.

This is an extremely good opportunity to state how important it is to have a dash camera in your vehicle. As well as ALWAYS record any police interaction.
 
There is no point initiating a traffic stop without PC.
I believe the officer failed to notice the paper tags until they were pointed out. Failure to notice seems unlikely to stand up in court but we will see.

what base line standard are we going to use for questioning LE during a traffic stop?
First words out of the officer's mouth should be "the reason I pulled you over is ...."

If that doesn't happen, I have a right to ask.
 

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