Minnesota, here we go again. I'm betting ammo/gun sales are brisk

[Dinglenutz]

If some here believe it is ok for police to use firearms without the presence of a threat of life threatening act

I think the relevant counterpoint would be that a person with a felony warrant for armed robbery, an additional warrant for driving with a firearm in the car beside him, then fighting the police and diving into the car ... could be considered by at least one reasonable person to be a life threatening act.

The case of Lt Lasario is completely different IMO.

 

[arakboss]

No. If she had tased him and he died from it I don't think this would be much of a story. But she didn't tase him. Your second question is obviously rhetorical, or at least I hope it is.

I am hearing a lot of talk like he didn't deserve a death sentence for resisting arrest. Unless you believe she meant to shoot him then there would be little difference how he died. Dead is dead.

 

[RVTECH]

Now you're talking about a malfunction. I would not call that an accidental or negligent discharge.

Good assessment and very true.

A poorly repaired/modified etc. gun that is not safely tested is outside the realm of accidental/negligence.

 

[Xaevian]

It's not. There is a level of hypocrisy in this thread that I'm not smart enough to describe properly.

Double standard is a good start.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Now you're talking about a malfunction. I would not call that an accidental or negligent discharge. That said, had your unintended discharge led to property damage or injury, sadly you would be at the least held liable - and likely your friend the "gunsmith." Sounds like none of that happened -- glad to hear.

That's just playing w/ semantics IMO. The discharge was accidental, but went downrange into the backstop because I was not behaving in a negligent manner. Broadening it to "unintentional" but not accidental is sort of pointless but you do you as they say.

I was there, felt like an accident to me.

 

[Kruel J]

That's just playing w/ semantics IMO. The discharge was accidental, but went downrange into the backstop because I was not behaving in a negligent manner. Broadening it to "unintentional" but not accidental is sort of pointless but you do you as they say.

I was there, felt like an accident to me.

As much as I appreciate you sharing this, let's keep this one on topic.

 

[Xaevian]

Kinda hard with all the red herrings getting strewn about. Starting to smell like rotten fish...

 

[pharmseller]

Of course he or she does not know. But this is where experience, intuition and awareness, along with high tech help need to be utilized and relied upon.

Otherwise what is the alternative? Approaching every traffic stop as full on felony stop with everybody spread eagle on the ground?

Does this high tech help include a mind-reading machine? Youtube is replete with examples of bad guys opening fire without warning.

 

[arakboss]

I know there are more than a few here who can't understand how she could have mistaken her pistol for her tazer. Let's reflect back on the cop who entered the wrong apt thinking it was her own and killed the tenant. When humans are tired and under stress they can and do make mistakes. I don't believe for a minute that she meant to shoot him with her pistol.

 

[RVTECH]

The following is MY opinion only and

Does this high tech help include a mind-reading machine?

With regard to 'high tech help' I was thinking more realistically such as NCIC or whatever current systems LEOs are using for license plate checks, DL # checks etc. as part of the overall assessment of threat level.

 

[Kruel J]

I sure don't want to see every LE interaction be done with guns drawn.

 

[slimmer13]

I sure don't want to see every LE interaction be done with guns drawn.

There isn't anyone saying they should be. This thread is like a Chinese man trying to speak Spanish to a Russian.

I think we're done here

 

[Kruel J]

There isn't anyone saying they should be. This thread is like a Chinese man trying to speak Spanish to a Russian.

I think we're done here

That's cool, then be done. Before you go, read the last couple pages again. Hopefully you'll see what I meant.

 

[slimmer13]

That's cool, then be done. Before you go, read the last couple pages again. Hopefully you'll see what I meant.

I was trying to lock it but I forgot I'm not a moderator.

 

[Kruel J]

I was trying to lock it but I forgot I'm a moderator.

Nothing in that post makes sense, but ok then.

 

[arakboss]

Nothing in that post makes sense, but ok then.

Stroke?

 

[slimmer13]

Stroke?

I'm good. Maybe some other time

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

That's just playing w/ semantics IMO. The discharge was accidental, but went downrange into the backstop because I was not behaving in a negligent manner. Broadening it to "unintentional" but not accidental is sort of pointless but you do you as they say.

I was there, felt like an accident to me.

Reasonable people can disagree. Not semantics -- rather important distinctions both in ethics and law. Accidents are preventable. Negligence is the result of failing to exercise due care leading to an "accident." In the anecdote you shared, you had reasonable belief that the firearm was functioning properly so in the context of the Four Rules, I would call your unintended discharge just that -- neither accidental nor negligent, simply unintended. Or even better yet, in the context of your reasonable belief, unexpected.

Back on topic, the officer's discharge of her weapon -- in this circumstance -- was negligent. It may have been a mistake, but that doesn't preclude her culpability. If it was not her intention to strike the resisting suspect, then she failed on Rule #3. Given that there was also a passenger in the vehicle in th eline of fire, she likely also failed on Rule #4.

None of this changes the fact that Duante Wright would very likely be alive today had he complied with the officer's lawful commands, and very likely that a veteran police officer who served her community would not have donned an orange jumpsuit. I expect she will face some criminal penalty, one would hope she is treated fairly by the courts. That said, the Washington County prosecutor has made it clear he would put this woman under the jail if he could. Truly amazing times we are living in.

 

[Kruel J]

Reasonable people can disagree. Not semantics -- rather important distinctions both in ethics and law. Accidents are preventable. Negligence is the result of failing to exercise due care leading to an "accident." In the anecdote you shared, you had reasonable belief that the firearm was functioning properly so in the context of the Four Rules, I would call your unintended discharge just that -- neither accidental nor negligent, simply unintended. Or even better yet, in the context of your reasonable belief, unexpected.

Back on topic, the officer's discharge of her weapon -- in this circumstance -- was negligent. It may have been a mistake, but that doesn't preclude her culpability. If it was not her intention to strike the resisting suspect, then she failed on Rule #3. Given that there was also a passenger in the vehicle in th eline of fire, she likely also failed on Rule #4.

None of this changes the fact that Duante Wright would very likely be alive today had he complied with the officer's lawful commands, and very likely that a veteran police officer who served her community would not have donned an orange jumpsuit. I expect she will face some criminal penalty, one would hope she is treated fairly by the courts. That said, the Washington County prosecutor has made it clear he would put this woman under the jail if he could. Truly amazing times we are living in.

I don't believe she purposely started her day thinking she was going to shoot someone instead of taze them. But her 25+ years experience should certainly have helped her realize her Glock wasn't a taser. It's a sad situation for everyone, nobody wins here.

 

[pharmseller]

Action starts at 00:35. Can anyone expound on the hints, clues, or Spidey Sense that could have told the cop that she was about to get shot?

In the case of Duante Wright, I think it's clear the cop did not mean to shoot him with her handgun. Can we agree on that?

If the answer is yes, she did not mean to shoot the guy, then how does that change how you view the incident?

And has anyone addressed my question of where Mr. Wright would be right now if he hadn't fought the cops? Let's be clear, I'm not for a minute suggesting he deserved to die, but he put himself in danger by resisting.

Who thinks it's a good idea to fight the cops? How does it usually/almost always turn out?



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