Minnesota, here we go again. I'm betting ammo/gun sales are brisk

[Dinglenutz]

I still have not learned or seen footage of the initial stop. From seeing the typical interactions, I'm going to speculate the initial stop was likely unethical at best and possibly unlawful.

Expired tags is reason to stop. What's the complaint?

 

[FourTeeFive]

For general info - his warrant does seem to have been for a legit breach of the peace.

The guy was definitely no saint, although he died due to a big mistake by a cop. Fast forward to the videos Daunte posted on social media at 1:22. You can watch it without logging in.

Instagram

www.instagram.com

 

[WillametteWill]

Okay, I waited 12 pages. Negative outcomes are about risk exposure. Law enforcement, by nature, has an abundance of risk exposure. Those who never carry a gun and a Taser and who are not responsible for enforcing laws have zero risk of this happening. Add in OC spray, impact weapons (baton), control holds and handcuffs into the force continuum and only a very small segment of the population has experienced violent interactions with these options. As others here have eloquently stated on pages 1 -11, if someone thinks she intentionally shot this guy there is a complete lack of intellectual honesty or critical thinking that just can't be addressed here.

She though she had a Taser, plain and simple. But how does this happen. Risk Exposure. We are humans and will make mistakes. I don't know what her day / week looked like. Anyone here been up all night with a crying baby or fixing a water heater that was leaking until zero dark thirty and then have to go to work with no sleep? Anyone been going through a divorce or having major emotional issues with family members and have to go to work completely "off" from your normal self? Yea, me to, but if I made a bad mistake people could die. Just like an air traffic controller, pilot or many other jobs. Increased risk exposure.

Let me really Monday morning quarterback these events. Why in the world did the initial officer decide to conduct business a) in the street b) next to his open door allowing him access to weapons and a possible vehicle escape? If you can avoid it, which it appears it could have been, move people you are arresting to a better tactical situation. Anyone hammering him for getting this ball rolling? Anyone?

I wish the suspect was not shot and died, sincerely. I wish the officer had not made that mistake. Officers, like most humans, don't make fatal mistakes without risk exposure, which in this case was caused by the actions of the suspect. If he was compliant we are all commenting on something else.

Going to provide $.02 on a few other issues:

I imagine they likely did absolutely nothing wrong in terms of driving. Once pulled over, I imagine they actually started it was because of the air freshener, as cops try to justify their illegal stop, once learning about his warrants, it was likely decided they were going to arrest the guy regardless.

If there is a vehicle code violation it is a lawful stop (presuming that is why you pulled the car over and did not look for it after). 100% of the vehicles I pulled over during my career were lawful stops. Have you ever seen a pedestrian hit because someone had something like air fresheners hanging from a rear view mirror obstructing the drivers vision? I have.

Until I see the footage of the initial stop I will assume the patrol officer was fishing

If there is a vehicle code violation it is called fishing with a license, or good police work. I hope officers in my neighborhood are doing this. It is how you catch criminals. You see a car with illegally tinted windows, pull it over and find a tweeker couple with tons of purses and car contents that they can't explain. You just caught the local car burglar. Again, hope officers in my neighborhood are doing this.

If is saw a group of white skinheads at 11:30pm, very slowly driving past homes is a largely Hispanic

With empty hand skills. When officers don't have the empty hand skills they more quickly transition to technological tools.

Except the reason departments have gone to all these cool tools (OC, Taser, etc.) is because "studies" show that injuries to suspects and officers are reduced when these options are used instead of physical force. Empty hand skills were replaced in large party by cries from activists and now they are crying because they are being used. Win / Win.

Do you think his traffic stop was legal?

This has been a thing that has been plaguing traffic stops lately. The moral and legal reasons people get pulled over. Speeding is one thing, and it's pretty obvious, it is illegal and will lead to a traffic stop. Tags, well tags are expired all over. That and registration CAN be valid with a bad tag. He'll, my local LEO stated (early Covid last year) they were being instructed not to patrol for tags. My neighbors daughters tags have been expired for well over two years.

Then please write your representatives to eliminate all equipment violations. They are laws for a reason...to reduce risk exposure in large part (vehicle license fees are of course revenue). Tinted windows, brake lights, out, head lights out, unsafe loads...these things increase risk and add to the cause and number of traffic collisions. If these are not enforced by traffic stops, how will they ever be fixed?

 

[RVTECH]

If the cop tells you to stop and you fight them and get in your car and try to drive away or whatever he was trying to do.
Does not matter he is a threat.
Not only to the cop but to the public.
If they let him drive away and he kills someone running from the cops.

This is true, he may be a threat but the level of threat is subjective and does not give the LEOs the right to attempt to stop him by opening fire on an unarmed subject, or shooting at a fleeing vehicle.

Have you ever watched a video of a vehicle chase? The LEOs aren't blazing away at the vehicle even if the driving is presenting a threat to the public. You'll notice the LEOs follow from a safe distance to reduce the threat and try to get the subject to a lesser populated area before attempting any procedures to stop the vehicle.

Now if the subject turns around and appears to intentionally use the vehicle as a weapon to run people down then deadly force may be justified. Another time may be if while in the act of trying to flee the subject pulls a gun on the LEO (such as in a recent incident in Nashville, TN)

Bottom line is with a fleeing subject , unarmed and just drives off the LEO will NOT be justified in applying deadly force.

If In the unfortunate event the driver injures or kills someone after fleeing the LEOs would not be held responsible. They have little control if the driver manages to flee and all they see is the South end of a vehicle heading away at high speed.

 

[Dinglenutz]

The guy was definitely no saint, although he died due to a big mistake by a cop. Fast forward to the videos Daunte posted on social media at 1:22

Lawsuit: Virginia police officers threatened man during stop

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. (AP) — A second lieutenant in the U.S. Army is suing two Virginia police officers over a traffic stop last December during which the officers drew their guns, pointed them at him and used a slang term to suggest he was facing execution before pepper-spraying him and knocking him

apnews.com

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong .....

 

[EHJ]

I still have not learned or seen footage of the initial stop. From seeing the typical interactions, I'm going to speculate the initial stop was likely unethical at best and possibly unlawful.

So... let me get this straight...
You still haven't seen the footage (and records) most here have... (You're just going with what you deem, "typical"..?)
And then you're just going to 'speculate' that this entire interaction was 'unethical' and 'unlawful' and then try to convince yourself (and others) that the path of most likelyhood is that which only equates to seeing a cop as a villain.

With no information whatsoever.

okydoky.

 

[Member 53328]

Just to be clear, advocating obeying lawful police orders isn't the same as advocating for a police state. The Virginia case of Lt Lasario, for instance, seems on its face to be a case of a person disregarding unlawful orders in a non-violent way, living, and probably making really good money for it. If this is all true, I give the Lt two thumbs up.

But for this thread, the orders were lawful and should have been obeyed.

With all due respect I'm done watching this thread or commenting. I'll leave it to the "experts."

 

[Member 34319]

So... let me get this straight...
You still haven't seen the footage (and records) most here have... (You're just going with what you deem, "typical"..?)
And then you're just going to 'speculate' that this entire interaction was 'unethical' and 'unlawful' and then try to convince yourself (and others) that the path of most likelyhood is that which only equates to seeing a cop as a villain.

With no information whatsoever.

okydoky.

I've watched all the available footage. Nothing shows or explains the initial stop completely. If you have these things, I ask that you please post them.

 

[FourTeeFive]

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things doesn't belong .....

Thanks! My mistake; wrong link. I corrected it.

 

[EHJ]

I've watched all the available footage. Nothing shows or explains the initial stop completely. If you have these things, I ask that you please post them.

I listened to the Dispatchers radio feed when it came out. About 4 minutes of radio between dispatcher and patrols.
I'll try to find it.

 

[Member 34319]

If there is a vehicle code violation it is a lawful stop (presuming that is why you pulled the car over and did not look for it after). 100% of the vehicles I pulled over during my career were lawful stops. Have you ever seen a pedestrian hit because someone had something like air fresheners hanging from a rear view mirror obstructing the drivers vision? I have.

If there is a vehicle code violation it is called fishing with a license, or good police work. I hope officers in my neighborhood are doing this. It is how you catch criminals. You see a car with illegally tinted windows, pull it over and find a tweeker couple with tons of purses and car contents that they can't explain. You just caught the local car burglar. Again, hope officers in my neighborhood are doing this.

If is saw a group of white skinheads at 11:30pm, very slowly driving past homes is a largely Hispanic

Then please write your representatives to eliminate all equipment violations. They are laws for a reason...to reduce risk exposure in large part (vehicle license fees are of course revenue). Tinted windows, brake lights, out, head lights out, unsafe loads...these things increase risk and add to the cause and number of traffic collisions. If these are not enforced by traffic stops, how will they ever be fixed?

I've been subject to fishing. Many times, due to my tint when I lived in Reno. I always felt unease's but the practice, as I was never cited. It's as if the cops that pulled me over were disappointed when I rolled down my window.

I understand the pints you make. Not the last one, last I checked being white in a Hispanic neighborhood isn't a crime, and not to say you are racist, but that comes off pretty close in my opinion. I know officers are trained to look for these things, and I understand them. I definitely feel they are unethical especially if reasoning like "white skinheads at 11:30pm, very slowly driving past homes is a largely Hispanic" is the main reasoning behind a fishing stop.

 

[EHJ]

I've been subject to fishing. Many times, due to my tint when I lived in Reno. I always felt unease's but the practice, as I was never cited.

Breaking a law is one thing... Flaunting a law knowingly and repeatedly, and becoming emboldened due to the lack of repercussions is all on you.
But it does put your opinions in perspective.

We were raised by very different parents.

 

[Member 34319]

Breaking a law is one thing... Flaunting a law knowingly and repeatedly, and becoming emboldened due to the lack of repercussions is all on you.
But it does put your opinions in perspective.

We were raised by very different parents.

My tint was legal.

 

[Dinglenutz]

Flaunting a law knowingly and repeatedly, and becoming emboldened due to the lack of repercussions is all on you.

To be fair, I have no issue with saying (1) that law should be obeyed and (2) it's horsepucky. Both are simultaneously true.

 

[EHJ]

My tint was legal.

Why were you pulled over then?

 

[nammac]

If he had just registered the dang car, we'd all be discussing somethin' else...

And don't tell me about the shutdown and covid, I successfully registered my vehicle two weeks ago. Its possible to do these things, not doing them sticks it to the man... Its just an excuse to not comply. Period... Didnt have the money, he should have sold that gun he was waving around in the video he posted...

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Well in this case it was poor training. If you watch the body cam the officer yells taser and then deploys her side arm. In effect killing him with one shot. It's the cops fault and the departments fault for piss poor training. But what do you expect when you defund the police. Your going to get poorly trained, subpar officers. And when the leadership is more worried about reelection and their salaries rather than their officers this is the result. The suspect should have complied but deadly force (even accidental) was a bit overboard. Never the less, cities will burn.

Just an FYI, the officer was a 26-year veteran of the Brooklyn Center Police Department and was in fact a training officer. Any rational observer would have to conclude this was a negligent discharge, and for myself, having handled a Taser and numerous pistols, I have a hard time understanding how the two devices could be confused. Furthermore, standard police training puts the service weapon on the dominant side and any LTL compliance tools on the other side of the utility belt. It is beyond my understanding how a veteran officer could draw the wrong weapon.

That said, this young man would very likely be alive today had he simply complied with the lawful orders of police. As expected, sympathy riots are occurring in Portland and Seattle as we speak...

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I see lot of 'woke' morons quoting family saying stop was because he had air freshener. He was stopped for expired tags and he had outstanding warrant.
Here we go again ...

Never let facts get in the way of a good woke rant! The inmates are running the asylum...

Does not change the fact that this was a bad shooting.

 

[Member 34319]

Why were you pulled over then?

Did you miss the part where I said tint.

Every officer that did cited the tint, so obviously the tint.

In reality, profiling due to the look of the vehicle and fishing tactics. Once they learned I was legal and not a criminal, I was sent on my way.

Unethical traffic stop if you ask me.

 

[RVTECH]

Any rational observer would have to conclude this was a negligent discharge,

I agree and wonder (as others have) why it is being called 'accidental' as opposed to 'negligent' ?

Or maybe 'mistakenly' pulled her firearm ?