Gun Deals
Sporting Systems
Buster Beaver Cerakote
Low Price Guns
Oregon Arms & Ammunition
HighLine Firearms
J&B Firearm Sales
Southwest Firearms
DSG Arms
Oregon Rifleworks
Defensive Arts
Simply Triggers
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Messages
7,103
Reactions
14,064
Resisting arrest and fighting with police are different. Resisting without posing an immediate threat does not warrant deadly force. If there was a visible gun or knife on the passenger seat (like Jacob Blake) and he was moving to it, deadly force would be justified.
That car was a weapon and he was taking control of it. We have an interesting situation here. Deadly force may well have been justified. The lady cop didn't intend to use it though. And the public is being told he was pulled over for an air freshener. Nothing good is going to come of this.

Training was the problem. If she hadn't uttered the word taser it could have been painted as a justifiable (fear for her or the life of others) shooting. Saying taser tells the world she was confused or made a mistake.
Exactly. Your post came in while I was typing this.
 

EPS

Messages
13,225
Reactions
25,791
You think that shooting was self defense?
If the cop tells you to stop and you fight them and get in your car and try to drive away or whatever he was trying to do.
Does not matter he is a threat.
Not only to the cop but to the public.
If they let him drive away and he kills someone running from the cops.
Guess what they will say.
YOU HAD HIM STOPPED WHY DID YOU LET HIM DRIVE AWAY.
 
Even less of an excuse for a deadly mistake.
Every stop is different. If this was Mayberry, USA then I don't think that cops would be on edge for every call and every other call wouldn't go sideways. This wasn't Mayberry and it went sideways fast. Too much armchair quarterbacking going on. Who here has walked a mile in her shoes, much less has been dealing with being neck deep on patrol since all of this boiled over with George Floyd? Every cop in that region has been over worked and abused with that "defund the police" bullbubblegum. These cops are humans, not robots. Every day they are scrutinized under a microscope by woke bubblegums, city councils and milquetoast mayor's. They can only take so much when their politicians and the citizens they protect are against them in every way. These cities don't deserve police protection.

download.jpeg-1.jpg
 
Messages
1,726
Reactions
2,834
Every stop is different. If this was Mayberry, USA then I don't think that cops would be on edge for every call and every other call wouldn't go sideways. This wasn't Mayberry and it went sideways fast. Too much armchair quarterbacking going on. Who here has walked a mile in her shoes, much less has been dealing with being neck deep on patrol since all of this boiled over with George Floyd? Every cop in that region has been over worked and abused with that "defund the police" bullbubblegum. These cops are humans, not robots. Every day they are scrutinized under a microscope by woke bubblegums, city councils and milquetoast mayor's. They can only take so much when their politicians and the citizens they protect are against them in every way. These cities don't deserve police protection.

View attachment 861629
If it’s become true too difficult of a job than it’s time to resign. No one is forcing these officers to continue this career path. I respect the hell out of LE but I have no idea why they continue to put their life on the line for a community and an agency who has no respect for them. The “im overworked or burnt out” isn’t an excuse to me. Especially when they are in complete control of whether or not they are going to continue in that field of work or not.
 

EHJ

Messages
2,887
Reactions
7,726
If it’s become true too difficult of a job than it’s time to resign. No one is forcing these officers to continue this career path. I respect the hell out of LE but I have no idea why they continue to put their life on the line for a community and an agency who has no respect for them. The “im overworked or burnt out” isn’t an excuse to me. Especially when they are in complete control of whether or not they are going to continue in that field of work or not.
What's the biggest city you've ever lived in?
Now turn out the lights for a few days, maybe a week.
Humans are basically just animals with a subtle veneer of civility.
Most beat cops already know this.

You wouldn't make it a month in West Baltimore on your own.
And believe me, the longest country driveway in Ruralsville won't be of any defense when this lid blows nationwide.
Some folks can handle being a peace officer - some, can't.
 
Messages
12,133
Reactions
26,736
To call it murder she (Cop) would have to "know" she had her service weapon in her hand, and made a choice to shoot the guy with the idea of killing him. Now anyone with a brain really believe that? That this Cop just wanted to kill someone so bad she was willing to do in on camera?
Its easy to see it was a matter of incompetence. I would bet my next pay check the now former Cop will be charged with a crime. I would also bet she will end up convicted. Either by Jury or she will take a plea deal. It will not be murder. Unless someone can find proof she was secretly a KKK member and they have film of her saying she was wetting her pants to go kill some black guy, which we know is not going to be found.

Just like chauvin won’t be charged with murder. You have to show intent.
I guess I’m still just amazed at how we give the police a different form of the law.

I’m sorry but I’m my opinion, “unintentional manslaughter” is a cop out.
 
Messages
12,030
Reactions
29,337
I guess I’m still just amazed at how we give the police a different form of the law.

I’m sorry but I’m my opinion, “unintentional manslaughter” is a cop out.
So when some drunk kills someone you want murder? Guess it would slow the drunk driving down after a while but in the real world its just not going to happen. Not any clue where you got this is only for Cops. This is how it's done for everyone. Murder has a pretty easy to follow definition. Accidents do not qualify. If someone is out playing with a gun, drunk, and shoots some buddy of theirs you want them up for murder? Again may make a few people stop getting drunk and play with a gun but, again in the real world this is not going to happen no matter how badly you think it should.
 
Messages
1,726
Reactions
2,834
What's the biggest city you've ever lived in?
Now turn out the lights for a few days, maybe a week.
Humans are basically just animals with a subtle veneer of civility.
Most beat cops already know this.

You wouldn't make it a month in West Baltimore on your own.
And believe me, the longest country driveway in Ruralsville won't be of any defense when this lid blows nationwide.
Some folks can handle being a peace officer - some, can't.
That’s all I am saying. If you can’t handle it any more than it’s time to quit. LE is in the business of lives. That’s not a business where you can just make fatal mistakes and skip away like nothing happened. I say the cops in these cities that want to defund them should all just have the blue flu for 36-72 hours and let the city burn. And if they still don’t want them after that as a police officer I would move to a different department. Thanks for the analogy though. I’ve seen the nasty side of humanity. Hence the reason I don’t want to be a cop. That and the politics.
 
Messages
1,726
Reactions
2,834
So when some drunk kills someone you want murder? Guess it would slow the drunk driving down after a while but in the real world its just not going to happen. Not any clue where you got this is only for Cops. This is how it's done for everyone. Murder has a pretty easy to follow definition. Accidents do not qualify. If someone is out playing with a gun, drunk, and shoots some buddy of theirs you want them up for murder? Again may make a few people stop getting drunk and play with a gun but, again in the real world this is not going to happen no matter how badly you think it should.
Crimes have elements that have to be met. No matter who commits them. If the elements aren’t met they can’t be charged for said crime. Cop or civilian.
 
Messages
12,133
Reactions
26,736
So when some drunk kills someone you want murder? Guess it would slow the drunk driving down after a while but in the real world its just not going to happen. Not any clue where you got this is only for Cops. This is how it's done for everyone. Murder has a pretty easy to follow definition. Accidents do not qualify. If someone is out playing with a gun, drunk, and shoots some buddy of theirs you want them up for murder? Again may make a few people stop getting drunk and play with a gun but, again in the real world this is not going to happen no matter how badly you think it should.
To some extent, yes.

Lawyers and our legal system have corrupted everything. To the extent that we accept lesser punishment for “accidents”. The fact that most here have already pointed out every definition and such to state this wasn’t murder, only hardens my stance further.

Call it what it is, yes I know it won’t happen because our systems out broken, and less stuff happens. Hold people accountable instead of emboldening them by lesser legal punishments and we have what we have here. A kid was emboldened by all sorts of stimuli to fight back and run. A cop killed someone and because she will be let off on lighter sentencing other cops will be emboldened to the extent killing has less consequences and it will continue to happen .

We, as society, have been enabling stuff for too long.
 
Messages
12,030
Reactions
29,337
Crimes have elements that have to be met. No matter who commits them. If the elements aren’t met they can’t be charged for said crime. Cop or civilian.
Yep, murder means some intent has to be shown. No one with half a brain really believes this Cop set out to kill. So badly she wanted to kill she did it on tape? Now some I guess desperately want this to be true because they hate Cops that badly? Pretty sad they hate Cops that much but, what can I say. The woman was easy to see in a job she had no business being in but that of course is not murder. I have said from the time I found out how long she has been a Cop that it was dumb luck she made it this far without some kind of major screw up.
 
Messages
12,030
Reactions
29,337
To some extent, yes.

Lawyers and our legal system have corrupted everything. To the extent that we accept lesser punishment for “accidents”. The fact that most here have already pointed out every definition and such to state this wasn’t murder, only hardens my stance further.

Call it what it is, yes I know it won’t happen because our systems out broken, and less stuff happens. Hold people accountable instead of emboldening them by lesser legal punishments and we have what we have here. A kid was emboldened by all sorts of stimuli to fight back and run. A cop killed someone and because she will be let off on lighter sentencing other cops will be emboldened to the extent killing has less consequences and it will continue to happen .

We, as society, have been enabling stuff for too long.
<shrug>
Bring back the hangman and every idiot that kills is killed in return? Guess it would clean out the gene pool pretty fast :s0140:
 

Dinglenutz

Messages
1,839
Reactions
3,346
I find myself living in a world where people seem to believe fighting with the police is OK. I don't like that world. Fighting with the police is not OK. People seem to believe that if they opt to fight the police, there should be some assurance they will be shielded from terrible outcomes that spring from the series of events that might derive from and follow that choice.

Ideally I'd agree. Unfortunately the good people, the people who wouldn't fight the police anyway, agreeing on this seems to have built an environment where a small sliver of the people are more likely to go ahead and fight the police, expecting there to be minimal downside. This is not good.

So we have a good idea having a very poor unintended consequence, it seems. This is not unprecedented and in fact is often observed in other areas of law.

I don't know how to fix this, but I'd really like to see it fixed as long as the fix isn't even worse at this point.
 
Messages
12,133
Reactions
26,736
I find myself living in a world where people seem to believe fighting with the police is OK. I don't like that world. Fighting with the police is not OK. People seem to believe that if they opt to fight the police, there should be some assurance they will be shielded from terrible outcomes that spring from the series of events that might derive from and follow that choice.

Ideally I'd agree. Unfortunately the good people, the people who wouldn't fight the police anyway, agreeing on this seems to have built an environment where a small sliver of the people are more likely to go ahead and fight the police, expecting there to be minimal downside. This is not good.

So we have a good idea having a very poor unintended consequence, it seems. This is not unprecedented and in fact is often observed in other areas of law.

I don't know how to fix this, but I'd really like to see it fixed as long as the fix isn't even worse at this point.
While not fighting, I do see how understanding the law and your rights and exercising your rights is a very patriotic thing. If cops get the notion that they can do illegal things, and no one holds them accountable for their actions, we will end up in a police state. While I do not have the balls to stand up against an officer, even if I absolutely believe I’m being illegally detained, I’ll comply. I do however, commend those that risk jail time and or their lives to hold police to any level of accountability. The most I’ll do is have dash cameras, which actually do a or good job in their own holding police accountable.
 

Dinglenutz

Messages
1,839
Reactions
3,346
I do see how understanding the law and your rights and exercising your rights is a very patriotic thing.
I would rather win a monetary judgement for the police violating my rights than have my family receive a monetary judgement for the police killing me while I fought them. Call me crazy. Call me selfish. Call me in time for dinner.
 
Messages
12,133
Reactions
26,736
I would rather win a monetary judgement for the police violating my rights than have my family receive a monetary judgement for the police killing me while I fought them. Call me crazy. Call me selfish. Call me in time for dinner.
Oh I agree. But, as long as the officer can hide behind the department or the city, we are only hurting the taxpayers. Until the protection against officers is lifted and they can be financially liable for their actions will real change occur. Until then, the worst that will happen after the lawsuit, they will be fired. Likely get to keep pension. Likely get to go apply for another department. Rinse repeat.
 
Messages
179
Reactions
619
It's really interesting to observe these comments, one would expect more of a rational approach on this kind of forum; however, even here there is divisiveness.

A lot of that divide comes from one's feelings (anger, fear, etc) clouding their judgment... much like the kid who was killed after resisting arrest and driving away... much like the officer who pulled her gun and couldn't tell it was not a taser.

If only people could take a moment and step back, before reacting and letting feelings take over...

-Robert
 
Project Appleseed
Copeland Custom Gunworks
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Oregon Arms & Ammunition
DSG Arms
Southwest Firearms Forum
Sporting Systems
Cerberus Training Group
NW Custom Firearms

Upcoming Events

22 Rimfire Challenge
Redmond, OR
Rimfire Challenge July 31st @ DRRC
Eagle Creek, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Top