Military to ban tobacco

[Kruel J]

Christ in a cartoon. 50 years ago a 4-pack of Marlboro's were part of the GI Issued MRE. Whether I agree or disagree with the topic is irrelevant. My father partakes in the "Sins" of living but I wouldn't EVER try to deny him life's little pleasures (8 year Vet) These boys are putting their lives on the line for this country. Can we cut them a little slack?

 

[Kevinkris]

hmm, the stress of combat is enough im sure but to compound that stress with not having access to smokes when many are already addicted to them will surely get some people killed.

 

[forefathersrback]

I'd rather not pay taxes that cover VA treatment of COPD, lung cancer, mouth cancer, etc. Chances of developing those and the associated long-term care are far greater than being killed or injured in any of the scenarios you refer to. Although tobacco use remains a personal choice, it's one that I don't want to clean up after.

duginsky, this is a rights issue & a respect issue. I think we all know by now not to light up the old cig in closed quarters, or to leave on the ground for others to pick up. It's called respect. You mentioned about paying taxes for COPD, ok fine. What about the things you choose that I don't like that is a health hazard. Oh, is that different for you. Yours is ok, someone else's is not ok? Guess what Jack, people die from firearms, yes true story, so should we stop people from owning firearms, because people don't want to "clean up after." I think not. You may wonder how I can correlate smoking issues with firearms, there both a freedom of choice. That's how! Or at least for now! The saying goes.." Your rights end, where mine begin". this nanny state B.S has to end. You choose your path, I'll choose mine. This country is supposed to be a Republic, not a Democracy. There was a reason for that, but it's changing, it's a slippery slope. So if you have a problem with other peoples choices......SAVE IT FOR THE PEARLY GATES!!!!!

 

[forefathersrback]

Yes I do. Shouldn't we all?

Furthermore, I don't have a problem paying my tax dollars to cover for those who served. I'm honored too!

 

[asiparks]

I'm in agreement with much of your post, no one should have to pay for bad choices made by someone else, however....

If I get cancer, that's my freekin problem, not your's. When I lost my job the same day I closed on my house, I didn't go begging for help from the government. If my house burned down tonight, I wouldn't expect you to pay for it with your insurance unless you were the one that burned it down...you know what that's called? LIFE.
...

Indeed if god forbid, you do get cancer, or your house does burn down, the cost of treatment or reparations will be far, far in excess of what you've paid in premiums. Of the 12 FDA approved cancer treatments, 11 cost more than $100,000 per year.
Where do you think that extra money comes from ?
The no free lunch model means letting people die as soon as the cost of treatment exceeds their total assets and premiums they've paid in. No more than 5 years for most Americans once they've sold their house and everything they own.

So back to smoking in the Army, where the health of the individual plays a key role in their ability to actively defend the country, yes, ban smoking.

 

[duginsky]

"duginsky, this is a rights issue & a respect issue. I think we all know by now not to light up the old cig in closed quarters, or to leave on the ground for others to pick up. It's called respect. You mentioned about paying taxes for COPD, ok fine. What about the things you choose that I don't like that is a health hazard. Oh, is that different for you. Yours is ok, someone else's is not ok? Guess what Jack, people die from firearms, yes true story, so should we stop people from owning firearms, because people don't want to "clean up after." I think not. You may wonder how I can correlate smoking issues with firearms, there both a freedom of choice. That's how! Or at least for now! The saying goes.." Your rights end, where mine begin". this nanny state B.S has to end. You choose your path, I'll choose mine. This country is supposed to be a Republic, not a Democracy. There was a reason for that, but it's changing, it's a slippery slope. So if you have a problem with other peoples choices......SAVE IT FOR THE PEARLY GATES!!!!!"


I wonder whether you might be making a few assumptions...I can't say there is any correlation between smoking and firearms - there might be some comparison between the two in terms of presenting some sort of risk to health, but not a correlation. Comparing the two seems a specious argument at best. There are plenty of intelligent ways of managing the risks associated with firearms; there are no intelligent ways to go about managing the risks of tobacco use other than not using. Clearly insurance premiums and the cost of health care are predicated on a wide array of potential and real risks, and I wish there were ways to penalize those who queer the deal for those who take some personal responsibility for their health yet take it in the shorts on their premiums or absorbing the cost of healthcare for those who take no responsibility. Could we all do things different to lower our risks? Of course. Do I wish that we could all pay for our own health care based on how well we take care of our own health? Sure. Do I resent the affordable health care act? I sure do… I also wish we could get away from infantilizing the populace. As much as I wish to be rid of any government intrusion, nanny-state, et al, it's a slow process and will never be what it was when this county had a population of 200,000 and enviably limited government. And as for the respect contention, I'm glad to respect our service members, but I can't equate making a decision to willfully do something harmful to one's health with being willing to serve our country. If that's the case, then we've done nothing but create another entitlement program, albeit a bit more complex. There's a reason cig's and snoose aren't put in ration kits any longer...


"Furthermore, I don't have a problem paying my tax dollars to cover for those who served. I'm honored too!"


My point is that I would rather we didn't place anyone in the position of being at risk of danger to life or limb – and I think most of us can argue the merits or the validity of any armed conflict occurring since the end of WWII and the subsequent loss of life.

 

[Caveman Jim]

I'd rather not pay taxes that cover VA treatment of COPD, lung cancer, mouth cancer, etc. Chances of developing those and the associated long-term care are far greater than being killed or injured in any of the scenarios you refer to. Although tobacco use remains a personal choice, it's one that I don't want to clean up after.

So, let me get this right, what you want is a "robot" fighting for our freedoms in the hands of a person behind the lines.... sound safe enough?
You have no choice in what you are going to pay for in any Gov. agency with "your taxes", you pay your taxes like the next guy and the politicians decide how to spend it.
Next someone will demand that soldiers cannot have tattoos!!! OMG!!!

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

What is next are they going to close the "CLASS 6" ( package store for booze on military bases) ? I will be forced to buy cheap smokes and alcohol next to the casino on the Native American Reservation .

 

[duginsky]

So, let me get this right, what you want is a "robot" fighting for our freedoms in the hands of a person behind the lines.... sound safe enough?
You have no choice in what you are going to pay for in any Gov. agency with "your taxes", you pay your taxes like the next guy and the politicians decide how to spend it.
Next someone will demand that soldiers cannot have tattoos!!! OMG!!!

Jim, I'm not sure where your robot contention came in; the internet is a wonderful place for asserting assumptions, and as I see it, a terrible place for reasonable debate - I'm guilty...

Someone wants to smoke/chew, fine, someone wants to do that to themselves and their family despite the health risks, fine...someone wants to eat like crap, fine; someone wants to live a sedentary life, fine...I resent having to share in the cost of managing those choices as much as I would having to pay for abortions or having to listen to someone opine the merits of "redistributing wealth." In any of those instances it is taking money I have earned away from me to pay for someone else's decision - that's immoral - and I understand that this is in large part what taxation amounts to. I just don't see that military service is any reason to compromise good judgment and reasonable decision making and then expect tax-dollars to make up the difference. If getting cheap smokes and booze at the Class VI store is an enticement to service, what kind of statement is that making?

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Got 2 boys in the service now. Both joined out of high school and were dyed in the wool anti-tobacco at enlistment. Anti-coffee also.
4-6 years later both smoke/chew. When I asked why; 18-20 hour days back to back for weeks due to operational tempo.
The armed services run on nicotine and caffeine and stress. They did when I was in and it ain't changed according to my sources.
So talk that indicates that they have all these optional life choices strikes me as terminally misinformed. When they get to quit whenever they feel like it, live where they like and how they like, then maybe we can talk about not footing this bill.

My $0.02.

^ what he said!

 

[oknow]

Yes I do. Shouldn't we all?

I do not have problems with paying for bullet holes or with blown off legs or arms or for death benefits for that matter., because I live in the real world I know that s@!+ happens. People in the military for paying with their arms and legs and lives and their taxes also. Freedom isn't free somebody has to pay. I for one think if they want to smoke they should be able to and we should be buying the cigarettes for them like we used to. The question is HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY???

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

The rationed smokes and booze were perks and in no way enticed me to enlist. How many years did you serve ? The time spent playing "CALL OF DUTY" does not count .

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

I do not have problems with paying for bullet holes or with blown off legs or arms or for death benefits for that matter., because I live in the real world I know that s@!+ happens. People in the military for paying with their arms and legs and lives and their taxes also. Freedom isn't free somebody has to pay. I for one think if they want to smoke they should be able to and we should be buying the cigarettes for them like we used to. The question is HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY???

I second and third that HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ?

 

[PiratePast40]

....So back to smoking in the Army, where the health of the individual plays a key role in their ability to actively defend the country, yes, ban smoking.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the statistics that show young soldiers aren't able to fulfill their duties because they smoke. Was this a WWII thing? Vietnam? Korea? Modern sandbox war? Or are you just making things up for your own soapbox?

 

[asiparks]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the statistics that show young soldiers aren't able to fulfill their duties because they smoke. Was this a WWII thing? Vietnam? Korea? Modern sandbox war? Or are you just making things up for your own soapbox?

Uh huh...so, cutting through your hyperbole, and fanciful paraphrasing of what I said:
You are going to argue that smoking is not bad for the health ?
You are going to argue that a fitter healthier soldier is not a more efficient and cost effective soldier ?

Why do you think the military is considering banning smoking ?


"Hagel said that the financial and human costs of tobacco use need to be taken into account. The secretary said that dealing with tobacco-related health issues costs the Defense Department more than a billion dollars a year.

"Now the dollars are one thing. But the health of your people — I don't know if you put a price tag on that. So I think it does need to be looked at and reviewed," Hagel said."

http://www.ttac.org/TCN/materials/pdfs/12.12.06/Smoking_and_MilitaryReadiness.pdf

from: Institute of Medicine. Combating Tobacco Use in Military and Veteran Populations. Washington, DC: The National Academies Press, 2009.

• Many studies detail the detrimental effects of tobacco use on the military. Some of the findings include:
  • Smoking is one of the best predictors of military training failure.
  • Smokers are more likely to perform poorly on military fitness evaluations.
  • Smokers are more likely to sustain injuries, particularly musculoskeletal injuries.
  • Smokers report significantly more stress from military duty than non-smokers, especially those who reported that they use smoking to control stress.2
• In addition, an Institute of Medicine report found that military personnel who smoked had lower visual acuity and poorer night vision than non-smokers. The report also noted that the adverse health effects of tobacco use such as decreased cognitive ability and impaired respiratory function affect aviation performance and military diving.3

 

[clambo]

I am retired US Army. I chaw a can of Copenhagen every 24 hrs. If I cant, the world must stop until I can again. I've been doing this for about 35 years. Im not gonna get cancer.....jeez......dont tell me about your deceitful " facts ". Like, " Chewing tobacco will DOUBLE your chances of mouth cancer. " Thats misleading right there. Double your chances.....as in going from 1% to 2%. I'll take my chances. Besides, I'm addicted. I couldnt quit if I tried. I've tried

For those of you who bubblegum about paying too much for my V.A. care......you are being ripped off already.....V.A. care is completely dependent on luck of the draw..there is an awful lot of the old " a pregnant woman went into labor, went to the hospital, had a healthy baby, and came home with no legs. "

 

[Caveman Jim]

Jim, I'm not sure where your robot contention came in; the internet is a wonderful place for asserting assumptions, and as I see it, a terrible place for reasonable debate - I'm guilty...

Someone wants to smoke/chew, fine, someone wants to do that to themselves and their family despite the health risks, fine...someone wants to eat like crap, fine; someone wants to live a sedentary life, fine...I resent having to share in the cost of managing those choices as much as I would having to pay for abortions or having to listen to someone opine the merits of "redistributing wealth." In any of those instances it is taking money I have earned away from me to pay for someone else's decision - that's immoral - and I understand that this is in large part what taxation amounts to. I just don't see that military service is any reason to compromise good judgment and reasonable decision making and then expect tax-dollars to make up the difference. If getting cheap smokes and booze at the Class VI store is an enticement to service, what kind of statement is that making?

You failed to read where I said you do not have any say where your tax money is spent...

There is no : duginsky does not have to contribute his portion of taxes to the HC costs of those military personnel who choose to participate in the use tobacco products.... NONE!!!

 

[Caveman Jim]

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/03/21/new-army-uniform-guidelines-limit-tattoos.html

The Army is currently in the culling process.

What is this world coming to??? I believe that politicians and lobbyist who have never served a second in any US Armed service are wanting to control every living aspect of military life, they do not have that right!!!

 

[PORSCHE928S4]

Thank you for your service and all I can say is chew away and enjoy life as you see fit ! I have been stationed with some old Sgt's from the BIG RED ONE (and yes they smoked like mad ! )and they could outrun and out push up most of the non tobacco partaking new recruits !

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I'd rather not pay taxes that cover VA treatment of COPD, lung cancer, mouth cancer, etc. Chances of developing those and the associated long-term care are far greater than being killed or injured in any of the scenarios you refer to. Although tobacco use remains a personal choice, it's one that I don't want to clean up after.

Really? Well ain't life perfect for you dude.
Freedom ain't free. Think about it....